I usually don't follow the threads about diesels since I haven't had any need for one but I ran across an extra clean '05 Ford F250 with a 6.0. Is this one of the dogs or has it been a good engine? 150K miles, exceptionally clean

Also, how about Chev's '05 6.6 diesel?

thx.

That 6.0 engine is THE dog. Those things have kept a lot of diesel repair shops busy. If somebody gifted me with one I wouldn't want it. The '05 DMax is a very good engine. There's really no comparison.

I agree as is the '05 Cummins. I am a Cummins guy and I knowingly bought a 2004 6.0 Ford F350. I cannot believe how flipping weak that motor is compared to the Cummins I have had in the past. The worst part is it won't die and I hate to waste stuff.

My entire reason for buying it was that the '04 and the '05 Ford 6.0 Superduty is one of the easier Fords to do the Cummins swap. I wouldn't buy one with the intent of keeping it as is on a bet.

Ford had a dud with the 6.0. The 05 Dmax was a good engine. Cummins makes the best diesel truck powerplant.

Run as quickly and as far away from that engine as you can get.




Much, Much better engine

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll abstain from the Ford.

They also have an '01 Ford F250 with a 7.3 and manual transmission. I haven't seen it yet. 99k miles. What's the word on that engine?

No flies on the 7.3.

A lot better than the 6.0. Pretty decent engine but to be honest the duramax is better, and I'm not a chevy fan.

The 7.3 is a good engine but old technology and way down on power compared to newer designs. If you want to actually enjoy driving it....they're clanky clattery noisy things and flatout slow dogs. There's much better.

Owned an 04 6.0 and drove an 05 for a couple years. I never had any trouble with either, but quite a few folks did.
Biggest problem with the engine is the E.G.R. valve gets dirty and sticks, causing all kinds of other problems. The engine is out of warranty by no, so there is a very simple E.G.R. delete that solves that problem.
Some other folks, mostly with chipped engines, had head bolt/head gasket problems. Pretty unusual on a stock engine.
And for a pretty good percentage of folks you'll get advice from, the Cummins is the be-all end-all of diesel pickups and anything else is trash.
Cummins technology is falling behind the last few years (too many compromises to meet new emissions standards), and it's biggest issue is the truck wrapped around it.
All three make good trucks, it's personal preference.

After looking at the options, I think I'll stick with a gas engine. I don't need that much towing power and they're too expensive to buy if I don't need one.

The 6.0 in the Ford is the reason Ford split with Navistar.

I hear that they fall out of a tree fast

that's about it

There have been tons of complaints on them, but there are also LOTS of them on the road.

Find one cheap enough in good shape (they don't hold their value like other Diesels) and you can make them pretty bullet proof.

I read a lot of Diesel forums and they're really not supposed to be a bad motor once a few things are changed.



As far as the negative 7.3 comment, one paper they are down on power compared to a lot of the newer motors but hook a heavy load up to one and you really wouldn't know the difference.


I drive a Cummins 5.9 and an '01 Ford F-350 with a 7.3. With a full load on them there isn't much difference.

http://www.1ststrike.com/auctions/view/136/vehicles Run from them fords they gave them away this last go around......

If you don't need to tow heavy all the time I wouldn't be overly scared of a clean 6.0.......get rid of the EGR system and moniter the condition of the oil cooler and it will probably run allota miles

from what I gather , the 6 was actually a pretty good motor in International rigs...it was screwed up in the Fords from too much smog control and too much horsepower

Don't let anyone fool you. The 7.3 is no slouch. 6.0's can be made into a good reliable motor if you are willing to throw some money at them. They make a bunch of power too. I'd go with the 7.3 though.

7.3 with a manual trans??

droolin.

6.0, no drool.

Since we're talking about Ford engines - what's the word on their 6.8 V10 engine? I see an '08 F250 here with one. About 82k miles. Do they get any kind of mileage or is it a gas hog?

I don't hear any bad talk about the v10



Don't hear any 20MPG claims either though.

Doesn't much matter if it's just towing average stuff. But don't kid yourself, a 7.3 has nowhere near the power of newer trucks. The older 5.9's didn't have much power by today's standards either. Towing heavy the new trucks pull a whole bunch harder. The 7.3's and older 5.9's are good engines but agree or not, as daily drivers they were also slow pigs and noisy clattery things.

But diesels aren't only good for towing. It's also about enjoying what you drive. At altitude or on mountain grades nothing comes close to a diesel. I rarely tow and wouldn't trade mine for any gas truck. No more noisy clank and clatter either. The newer trucks are so smooth and quiet and torquey and accelerate so well, that they turn a diesel into something really enjoyable to drive. It's also easy to get more power and make them even faster/more fun, it doesn't take that much. These things will be faster than a gas truck with better mileage, obviously tow better, and be great for everyday driving.

The 6.0..... A good friend works at a large diesel repair shop. I once asked him what goes wrong with the 6.0's. He said, "Better to say what doesn't go wrong. Those things are awful." His brother is a diesel mechanic who had a much modified/built 7.3, a real good one......it towed about the same as his current early DMax which is completely stock, running only mild tow tune. There's a difference.

Big time gas hogs.

Thanks for the info, guys. I think we might have just run into something we can really live with. We went to the local Toyota dealer to see what he had in a good used Tundra. We need a long bed and when we asked if they had one, his eyes lit up. They have a new '12 long bed that they haven't been able to sell since early winter. There's no interest in that bed for some reason. We had no intention of looking at a new one but I think we can get this for well under $30k, plus there's a $2500 cash back on it. He said make an offer. They won't lose money on it, but they need it off the lot. We're giving it a real serious think.

my dad aways said "if it aint got a 8' foot bed, take it back and get the rest of the trk"........

myself , rather have the V10 Ford than a Toy truck

the V10 is a good workhorse that will get no worse milege than the V8 s in a 3/4 or 1 ton....

Not a fuel mileage champ for sure. All of Ford's "modular" engines had some issues with exhaust manifold bolts breaking and many had spark plug issues. They used a one piece plug that was pretty long and stuck it down deep in the head with little room to work on them. Then to compound the issue they cast the head with only enough room for 2-3 threads for the spark plug. Worked OK till they needed changing, by then they pretty much grew fast to the head causing a lot of problems. More than one mechanic has stripped the threads on those heads while changing spark plugs.

The spark plug issue is common on all early tritons. My heli-coil kit for the tritons has been well used. I will say the lower end of them are strong with the traditional main bolts and the 2 crossbolts for the caps. Heads are expensive if it comes down to needing one. I think I paid $1700 for a head for a V-10 this spring.

The early tritons had the short threaded problem and there's LOTS of stories of blow plugs (hence the Heli coil comment), the later ones had two piece plugs that often broke when trying to remove.

And than as mentioned the manifold bolts, I replace mine on my last truck ('98 5.4). Talk about a pain in the a$$, but other than a few choice words and some of my time I saved about 400.00 bucks doing it myself.

The Ford V 10 will out tow and out haul ANY rice burner excuse for a truck AND the mileage won't be much worse than the rice burner either.

The 5.7 liter Tundra engine is very stout. In fact the engine and transmission helped me pick the Tundra over the F150.

I think we just found a dandy. It's an '08 Dodge quad cab with the long bed, 6.7 diesel and a 6 speed manual!! Love those stick shifts. I ran a VIN check and it's clean. 66k miles. Plus, it's priced $4000 BELOW KBB. The lowest gear is a granny, the top is an OD, so essentially it's a 4-spd around town.

In spite of what the Toyota salesman told us, they wouldn't deal on the Tundra at all. We'd have bought it if they'd come down a couple grand.

This Dodge is 13" longer than the Tundra in spite of having the same bed length. Much of the difference is in the rear seat leg room. The Tundra is a little tight there. The rest of the difference is the hood. The Dodge is also a couple inches higher under the tranny. With that length, it need extra clearance.

I wouldn't be scared of the Dodge. I was a die hard Ford guy until I bought my 2004 6.0 diesel. At 35,000 miles it was bucking and blowing black smoke. The dealership "cleaned" the turbo and all was well except my confidence. I traded it in on a new 2006 Dodge 5.9 and really like the truck. I have had to replace the ball joints (60,000 miles) and axle U joints (75,000) but other than that it has been solid. I now have 91,000 on it. I have friends with the 6.7 and they all seem happy.

Andy

Sounds like a nice Ram you found, I wouldn't buy one for a daily driver unless you do the emission deletes though.

If it's going to actually be used (pulling) it'd be a hell of a truck.

And a word of advice for any of the common rail diesels these days, FILTRATION FILTRATION FILTRATION (buy an aftermarket .2 micron filer)

Sounds like you have plenty of money to upgrade diesels when you please. I'm serious when I say good for you. I love the new ones too.
That said, I love my old '02 Excursion Ultimate diesel with the 7.3. I like them so much this is my second one. I've done some mods that certainly weren't expensive, and now it's very quiet, is fast enough for me, and pulls all I ask it to, and I tow often. It has a mild tune and easily pulls a big twin-engine offshore boat, even through the mountains. Unloaded I get 20 mpg if I keep my foot out of it and stick to 2000 rpm.
The cheapest new Ford diesel on the lot I've seen here is about $50K, and they go up from there. My Ex has been paid for for 7 years and has less then 100K miles. I think I'll keep the slow clattery pig. They can't be all that bad; it's funny how so many folks seem to want to buy it out from underneath me.......

I know the 6.7 engine and manual tranny are good. Can anyone tell me how the rest of the 2500 trucks hold up over the long run? We plan on having this thing a long time. It won't get hard use like farming or construction.

At this point, we really don't need the diesel and the capacity of the 3/4 ton. However, we're thinking that in a few years we might get us a couple horses. I could haul 2 in the truck and still tow a camp trailer. The Tundra can't do that. The payload of their biggest is only around 1800 lb, less than 2 horses will weight.

How in the heck do you get two horses in the back of one of those trucks and haul them?

Most guys use a loading ramp but I need something portable. I'm working on that one. Most stock racks have a lift gate and you back up to a hill or something. If one isn't available, you have a problem unless you've trained a jumper.

One of the good things about buying an HD P/U and using it for light duty is it almost guarantees long life. Hope you enjoy the new ride!

I gotcha. I can see myself getting crippled attempting anything close to that maneuver.

very true, and when the time comes along that you actually need at least a 3/4 (and it will), you're already the Boy Scout.

Don't know if they've put a better water pump on the 6.7's, the only problem I've had with my 5.9 is the water pump seal/bearing went out at 50k. My dealer is incompentent so I replaced it myself on my dime. The rams are notorious for the ball joints going out so keep an eye on your front end, might need work at ~100k. I haven't had any front end problems on my truck with a bit over 80k on the odo. I'm planning on my truck being a long term vehicle and just keep on maintenance, changes filters and fluids and running some injector cleaner through the fuel a couple times a year.

257k now on my '03. Two waterpumps, 2 sets of shocks, 2 sets of brakes, balljoints and steering stuff done for the first time at about 240k. Built the tranny with 65k miles before it grenaded with the power upgrades using Suncoast parts. Its been great since then. I did have to do the infamous defrost blend door, though, and I wore out my original cloth driver's seat at 200k. Bought a set of heated, power leather seats out of a Laramie on EGay. I will keep it until the wheels fall off..........

Man, your about as wishy washy as I was when I was looking for a new tow rig. lol

If the diesels didn't require so much maintenance I would have considered one but I prefer the simplicity of the gas engine. Change the oil, fill her with gas and go. That's why I went with 97 F250HD with the 460, she's got a drinkin problem but there's no denying the power behind that engine!

When you plunk down 30 grand on something you plan to keep for 20 years, it pays to consider all the options. When we 1st looked at the Tundra, we weren't considering the possibility of hauling horses in the bed. The Tundra is still a 1/2 ton no matter what kind of junk they have under the bed. It just can't handle that kind of load. 'sides, it took a while to bring wifey to realize we need a TRUCK, not a cargo packin' car.

I am always confused when people talk about the extra maintenance of a diesel pickup. The only thing that is different is additional oil since it holds more. Not sure about extra anything else....

Andy

The only additional maintenance is the fuel filter, mine takes 5 minutes to change and costs $14 every 15K miles. Other than that there's no additional maintenance, I don't know where some of these guys come up with that BS.

Dodge builds a great truck. The truck itself is as least as good as any Ford and better than GM/Chevy. The cummins motor is superior to all others. My dodge is a 1999 2500 regular cab, it has 375K miles on it now and while it's a little beat up from all the abuse over the years, everything still works and I wouldn't hesitate to jump in it tomorrow and pull the gooseneck across the country with it.

There is a stainless steel contractor I use at work a lot, 3 owners, all 3 have Dodge Crew Cab diesels as their go to jobsite truck. Plus they have 2 or 3 other Dodge Crew Cab diesels for their hands to drive to the jobsites. The 5 are all newer than 2003, the main 3 probably newer than 2006. 80% of the time they're pulling enclosed trailers full of stainless fabrication items. The rest of the time they're hauling round bales with their Deweze beds on the farm. One is well over 200,000 miles. I looked at the President's mileage the other day, it was at 180,000 miles. They drive all over the country in them and don't report to many issues.

There was a time trail heads had a bunker that you could back a truck up to to unload stock.
Like this:



I've never seen one like that in AK, but then again, I've never seen anyone haul stock in a truck up here.

Here in Idaho, lots of trail heads have those ramps. They just built a fancy new one in a campground where we hunt quite often.

I don't see too many people hauling horses in pickups any more. Most pickups can't handle the weight, then or now. They use either 1 tons (the best solution of all) or trailers. It seems like many of the current line of trailers cost more than the truck pulling it.
There are quite a few old pickup stock racks lying around in back pastures.

So your telling us that there is no more regular maintenance that needs to be done on a diesel truck compared to a gas truck? That's not what my best friend tells me about his 97 F350 PS.

I'd rather do maintenance on a diesel for 400k miles than pay to have a gas engine replaced at 200.

I am also in the camp that doesn't think there is significantly any more maintenance on a diesel as compared to a gas truck. The fuel filters are the only thing that I can think of that are more critical in a diesel than a gas (you just change them more often).

Diesels generally do have more engine oil, but that isn't significant to me. Gas engines have spark plugs and coils (that can go bad). Fairly even, IMHO.

Now a diesel truck may be used harder than a comparable gas truck. If you use a gas truck as hard as you use a diesel then the rest of the maintenance on the truck should still be equal.

A 1997 F350 may be getting long in the tooth, but I bet the same truck in a gas would take equal maintenance by now.

Note that the '97 also has 375 miles on it. By now, the gas engine would likely have been rebuilt.

Don't forget that a diesel engine requires a hell of a lot more oil than a gasser, has 2 batteries, several filters, and diesel fuel is more expensive than gas. In cold weather they can be a pia, under 20 degrees they recommend that you leave your truck running or keep it parked inside a garage.

I'm not trying to convince you to not buy a diesel, obviously your the one that know's if it's worth it or not. I'm just saying I won't own one because it's not worth it to me. Upkeep is too much plus I don't like having to deal with them in the cold.

Normally, we don't have the kind of cold that AK has. My partner has the same engine in his truck and so far, the glow plugs have never failed to fire it up instantly, even below 0. You do need to use fuel additive when it's really cold to keep the fuel from jelling, but around here most stations have it already added in winter.

Diesel maintenance isn't any worse than with a gas engine. Fuel filters, that's about it. More oil.....can't imagine anyone cheaping out over an extra gallon or so of oil. Under 20* isn't any problem. It gets -20* here now and then but starting isn't a problem. And two batteries..... big deal, I replaced them after the first 6yrs.

Pretty stupid arguing diesel with somebody who doesn't own one but knows all about these things from what his best friend told him. Somebody who says diesel fuel is too expensive yet buys a gas hog that gets 1/2 the mileage with nowhere near the same power. Diesel costs the same or less than regular here.

On my 06 cummins powered ram my maintenance intervals have been:

7500 oil filter and 1qt oil to top off
15,000 oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, replace engine oil, and diff oil.
30,000 oil filter, fuel filter, air filter, replace engine oil, diff oil, x-fer case oil and transmission fluid.
I replaced the coolant at 75,000.

Fuel injected gas trucks vehicles really should have their fuel filters changed more frequently, but it's typically a PITA job vs. a diesel truck. I can't see the typical diesel light duty truck requiring more frequent or more extensive maintenance, unless the engine has been hot rodded and the owner is wearing out parts more frequently.

I have had no problems opperating in the cold, I do plug the truck in to warm up the engine and batteries in sub zero temps, but it will start to below zero while not plugged in. I've driven plenty of ford diesel trucks on the slope over the past decade and they work fine down to -40, but take forever to warm up at those temps even with a high rate idle. I have heard of some trucks loosing trannies due to seals that shrank at -45F and let out the fluid. Trannies with no fluid don't last long. The main thing I've noticed with the oil field trucks is ~80,000 miles of gravel roads simply shake them loose.

If you're regularly pulling a load, diesel is the way to go.

if you tow heavy and/or often, you'll want the diesel.

Lighten up francis, your taking things a little personal over a conversationa bout a [bleep] truck.

You keep saying dumb things.

Lol........ have a nice day.

Dick, when you get the truck, get a hold of me, and I'll set you up with a mechanic that'll do an EGR delete for you. Improves fuel economy by as much as 35%, and gives another 50 horses or so, and you never have to deal with all the EGR related maintenance issues. No brainer. JMO, Dutch.

Dutch,

I am about to do the EGR delete on my 6.0. The truck has been good, but the engine takes too long to spool. It has the stock tune and I didn't want to risk head/head gasket trouble with this engine until I got the energy to do a Cummins swap.

The question that I have is do you think the EGR delete will help the turbo spool quicker. I am a bit suspicious that there may have been a "de-tune" flash put in this truck and is causing a change in how the variable turbo reacts.

What are your thoughts?

Anybody here in the market for a '08 Dodge 3500? We found a good one last night but we have no use for a 1 ton. Diesel, manual tranny, 58k miles. They've had a flat bed on it and put the original back on to sell. The bed is brand new except they scratched it in a few places doing the swaps.

Are you aware that the Cummins engines don't need the exhaust additive? According to the local Chevy service manager, they saw it coming and designed a filter system that reburns the particles in the exhaust so they meet the requirements without the additive. He said that the EPA might outlaw their system in a couple years but for now it's good.
The Chevy engineers are nuts with their system. On the new ones, the tank is behind the right front wheel, outside the frame, and it hangs below the frame a few inches. It's guaranteed to get hit every time you drop the wheel over a rock or something. The service mgr said they have to put a skid plate for it on all the new diesel trucks they sell. You'd darn well better keep that tank full, too. If it runs out, you get towed. It will last for about 4 tanks of fuel.

How hard is an EGR delete to reverse? We don't have emissions testing here now, but I intend to have this truck a long time and sometime we might live where it's required.

Well, we dunnit. Hopefully, this will last us until I'm too old to drive. '08 Ram 2500, 6.7 Cummins, 6 spd manual, not the top of the line trim but certainly all I can use. It's set up for hauling with axle air bags already installed.
I can't believe how hard these are to find in a long bed. I found only 1 other one in this condition and it was in Pendleton, OR, which is a long way from here. I did find a few with a lot more wear on them.

Now I'm looking at EGR delete kits. Dutch - what can you tell me?
I talked to the service mgr where we bought this. He's installed some delete kits (not at the dealership) and highly recommends it. He says some of the trucks he converted went from 17 to over 20 mpg with an amazing increase in power.

damn fine looking rig! congrats!

Nice looking rig! Wish I was driving one like that.

Nice truck, great find!

go to cumminsforum.com or dieseltruck resource.com and start reading up on those trucks


one thing you can do right away is simply unplug the EGR valve.....you will get a check engine light but it will run fine and you are likely to pick up a couple of mpg


before you get into the EGR delete you will want to install a tuner and get rid of the DPF.....a straight pipe will go in place of the DPF

most liked tuners for those trucks are the Smarty or the Minimax.....

If you start thinking about the tuners just buy the Smarty Jr. and be done with it. That's what I did for my 5.9 two years ago and have no complaints. I just leave mine on the tow mode (middle setting)and the throttle response is a lot better. When I put it back to the stock setting it feels like a slug. The Smarty Jr. is considered a very mild tuner and a "safe" box made to be used with stock trucks.

Nice looking rig by the way! I am planning on driving my 2006 until the wheels fall off. I picked up a set of the Cabelas floor mats (I think they are the Trail Gear or Trail Gear II) when I first got the truck. They cover most of the carpet and make one for the back seat area too. They are still going strong and save the carpet from muddy boots and spilled everything from my daughter. Highly recommend them.


Andy

Lots of recommendations for the Smarty's everywhere, but these days it's EFI that's quickly becomming the standard.

You can buy an EFI V2 and tune yourself, or go with one of the many different branded auto cal units.

cumminstuner
efi by ryan
starlite diesel

are a few of the recommended guys selling their brand/tunes on autocals

Skys the limit on what a guy can do, but even on stock trucks and just keeping a mild tune there's lots of nice options to smooth out the truck, pick up a little power and maybe a few mpg's

The EGR is a horrible thing. It sends exhaust crap back into the engine and you wouldn't believe how much gunk builds up in the charge pipe and manifold. Getting rid of that thing is good if you don't need it for an emissions check.

The 6.7 is sluggish compared to a 5.9 and gets worse mileage. For emissions they altered the tuning. Put some good tuning in there and it will come alive and improve economy. For DMax the absolute best tuner is EFI Live. Nothing else has the same flexibility. It's recently become available for the 6.7 Cummins. EFI isn't a canned tune, it's a tuner.....a program that allows your laptop to talk with the ECM. Numbers are fed into the tables, then sent to the ECM. They can be tested and then custom altered to suit your particular truck and conditions. Call Zach at Starlite Diesel in Grantsville, Utah. He was an EFI beta tester for the Cummins tuner.

For the money I still think the Smarty Jr. is a great option.

Just out of curiosity, you guys will scream bloody murder when someone shoots a deer out of season but it doesn't bother you to break federal pollution laws with the EGR deletes?

Problem is with the EPA, don't know all the technical terms and how they measure pollution but to them it's better to have lower emissions and burn more fuel, than to burn less fuel per mpg and have slightly higher emissions while doing so.

Personally I'm guessing a truck that gets a couple mpg more per gallon of fuel is going to produce less emissions (on average) than the same truck getting a two mpg less overall on a tank.

Do the deletes, pick up some economy delete the 3rd injector event (via EFI) and pick up some more economy along with some increased timing, etc. and you'll have a much more efficient truck than the handicapped stuff manufacturers are forced to produce.



Doesn't make sense? EPA might fundamentally be a good idea, but it's an agency with their heads so far up their asses it's ridiculous.

No

No sleep lost here. I got into EGR deletes backwards from semi trucks. The EPA applies a one size fits all solution to reduce particulate and NOX emissions to reduce smog in cities.

I've lived 6 miles from Filer. You have no smog.

To be able to reach the smog reduction, the EPA mandate increased Semi (diesel) fuel consumption between 15 and 20%. Semis burn about 20% of this country's fuel. We're sending our finest overseas to secure oil, and then we mandate technology to increase the consumption by 20%? Semi's burn 95% of their fuel somewhere on I80 in Wyoming, or I70 in Colorado... not in the cities. What smog?

Insanity.

BTW, you can reach the smog reduction equally by running a hybrid natural gas/diesel engine. Look for it in the next couple of years.

You ask for information about EGR delete, and about reversing it if necessary. Then come up with this....."Just out of curiosity" do you even know wtf you want? Get your act together.

Just learning more about the delete and it's implications. I can see that the delete is a way to promote independence from foreign oil by increasing mileage and a way to fight back against a rogue agency. However, there's also the moral issue of being legal. We're a nation of laws and ignoring a law we don't like isn't the way we've always done things here. There are ways to change a law but fighting to change a regulation made by a rogue agency seems pretty fruitless when they're backed by both the senate and the president. We claim to support the American way, but....

Ding, ding, ding! You have your winner!

Just sold my '97 F350 manual. Edge programmer gave it lots of power, but with the manual shifting it was harder to utilize the extra power effectively.

Went with an '06 duramax for towing and the difference in both towing ease and power delivery with the allison trans. is very apparent. Better mileage both towing and empty.

I did test drive and '01 F350 with the 7.3 and a complete Bully dog package, pipes - intake - programmer with and automatic. Truck mileage computer said 18 mpg and man this truck would flat out go.

And it's a Ford!

<insert evil grin here>

Ya it was a ford....priced too high for year and mileage. Forgot to mention the "big" tires and short wife.

Heh!

I'd have bought tickets to watch your Mrs. climb in!

You've got yourself a real dilemma here. Just gonna' have to wring your hands and soul search and work it out with your conscience.

I like to see petunias wilt when I drive by blowing black smoke out the tailpipe

This is why I have a diesel.

There's nothing that requires you to delete the EGR or DPF on that truck, 95% of that year model truck on the road are completely stock and run just fine, yours will do just fine that way also.

Legal and moral are not the same. The American way has always been to question authority, we wouldn't be here if we'd followed all the laws handed down by our British overlords. I don't wear a seatbelt, occasionally drive over the speed limit, drove the other day with a burned out tail light, and used to drink beer when I was under 21 (I'm 43 now). All of those are/were illegal but none are immoral in my opinion.

I have no problems with anyone who deletes the EGR from their privately owned vehicles.

There is this:
Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

That's true. Most people aren't gear heads and don't mess with their trucks, they don't know the difference. The EGR just recirculates exhaust through the engine. With miles the intake system will build up an astonishing amount of greasy crap. More than you'd ever think possible, but the truck will run ok. That DPF is something else.....it's the one to get rid of if you want immediate results. One friend was getting poor mileage with his '10 Cummins. A new exhaust shedding about 200 lbs of DPF system, along with an Edge tuner, made a big improvement in mileage and power. This was a couple years ago before EFI was available for Cummins.

Yep....you've created a real dilemma for yourself.

"They keep watch over you as men who must give an account" Are you talking about the ones flying around in private jets and traveling in motor cades telling us not to pollute?

The epa regulations on emissions were put in place years ago, before low sulfur diesel was on the menu. It was feel good back then or they would have gone into effect sooner. Most of the requlations as of late are politically driven not need or scientifically based.

Look at the two stroke direct injected motors on snow mobiles or boats and compare them to 4-stroke. lower emissions, better economy and more power, but try and take one into yellowstone park.

Nope. A two stroke will always lose as far as efficiency and emissions. It's sole benefit is power to weight ratio.

As far as quoting the bible, I'll make you a deal. You tell me you want/intend to keep all the bible commands, and I'll stop talking about EGR deletes.

The 6.0 Ford has really gotten a bum rap. THe same engine minus the emissions controls was installed in plenty of school buses without a hiccup. The problems started with Ford and Navistar not properly training techs/ not paying to keep qualified techs enough to stay in the dealerships to work on these trucks. Part 2 is once problems did start to occur, Ford wanted to penny pinch on doing warranty work on the 6.0, so when say a EGR started to stick open, feeding hot exhaust gas back into the engine, causing the cheap headbolts to stretch, casuing blown head gaskets from either towing or hot rodding, Ford only wanted to replace the EGR cooler, and possibly replace the headbolts. Nothing would be done to address the possible antifreeze in the oil, which would wreck the injectors, hpop, and oil cooler. Maybe not right away, but the damage was started. Same way with a leaking egr cooler. Now, the eingine is sucking coolant into the engine, or blowing hot exhaust in the coolant system, causing hot pockets during towing or hot rodding, and the same systems are prone to failure. Given the number of Super Dutys on the road, and you can see why the 6.0 is a 'junk motor'. The early Duramax had similar issues, but GM didn't sell as many trucks, and their warranty really took care of the owner. My neighbor has an '05 with a Edge box and beats the snot out of the truck. He shoved the head gaskets, and GM covered everything.

I have an '05 6.0 and love it. It has been worked on to eliminate the issues the 6.0 had to bring Ford into the era of clean diesels. If you get serious about the 6.0, PM me, I'll point you in the right direction.

Dutch - the quote and rant (by me) is a continuation of a comment by Rock Chuck on obeying leaders. A recognized trait of a good leader is their example.

Two strokes with the direct cylinder injection have come a long way to reduce emissions and increase efficiency. A few years more of R&D will be required.

CNG will probably replace both gas and diesel in this country as the fuel of choice at some point in the future. EGR delete may be a moot point.

the legality of the delete on this truck I just bought might be a moot issue. I think it might have one already done. There's a cable with a blinking light hanging under the dash. It's labeled DPF DELETE. It also has a programer by Hypertech but it's not plugged in. It came with a guide on CD that I haven't looked at yet.
I haven't yet looked at the engine to determine exactly what's there. I haven't dealt with this one before so I don't know what a normal one looks like until I get a good manual.

My apologies to anyone I might have offended by bringing up the legality of an EGR and or DPF delete. I'm certainly not trying to make anyone mad. I'm shopping for info.

Thanks for bringing it up - been kicking around the idea myself. As well as getting a programmer. Never hurts to ask around for pro/con on an idea.