Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Where is the 25-08?

why does no manufacturer legitimize the 25-08? every other caliber based on the 308 win case is commercially successful, and some greatly so. every one is in current production with at least one major rifle manufacturer. i would think a lot of guys would buy the 25-08. i would. has any of our industry insiders heard of a manufacturer that is considering it?

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The .25-.308 has been around for many years as a wildcat; Warren Page worked with it, calling the cartridge the .25 Souper.

When Winchester was working with the "Special" series, in ceveloping the 7.62 NATO, they had the case down to .12 caliber and as large as .40 caliber. There is no doubt that Winchester worked extensively with the .25.

Apparently, the manufacturers decided that the magic was to be found in .243", .264", .284", .308, .338" and .358".

Personally, I believe that the .25 Souper with a good 100-grain bullet would be an excellent big game round.

Steve

believe it or not but my evil twin has long wanted to do a 270/08.....gack gack gack

Dober

I think you will find it offers no gains over the .260 Rem on the top end and no gains over the .243 below it.

If you look at the scrutiny that goes into bullets and case design here for example, I would also expect to see great flack generated over seating those long 120 grain bullets in a short necked, low volume case.

AGW

'Cept it would actually be suitable for whitetail deer.
[running for cover]

Seriously though, would seating, say a 117 gr, in a 25-08 be any different than a 154 gr in a 7-08?

The .25-08 has about 2 grains less case capacity than the .257 Roberts, which in the real world means there's no ballistic difference between the two. Since both work fine in a 2.8" magazine (in fact the Roberts has always been factory loaded to about that length) there was no point to the .25-08, especially now that most factory .257 ammo is +P and gets pretty decent muzzle velocities.

I can just see it now. The factories introduce the .25-08 (maybe called the .250 Super-Duper) with a 100-grain bullet at 3100 and a 117 at 2900 (about what could be safely accomplished in factory ammo) with great fanfare, and many gun writers slaying unfortunate pronghorns and whitetails right and left. Then the gun writers rush to their computers and desperately try to convince the gun-buying public that somehow these ballistics are new and revolutionary and absolutely necessary for slaying pronghorns and whitetails.

Stranger things have been done, but the limited runs of .257 Roberts rifles that Ruger and occasionally others make seem to satisfy the public's desire for such ballistics.

Think of it as a 243 Winchester on steroids - heavier bullets and probably better for deer than the 243. It would be a flat shooting, high velocity round, if loaded to 62K psi or so (like the 260 Remington). On the other hand, with the 260, we don't need the 25-08, but then we don't need half of the cartridges that have been introduced in the last 30 years.

No need for it with the 257bob and 260. The 260 is so close to it only .007 bigger bullet.

The 7mm-08 does it for me though. The good 120's for deer on down and the 140's to 160's for deer on up!

I would say not many people could tell the difference in the recoil from a 25-08 or 260 shooting 120's and a 7mm-08 blasting them, just notice the 2-300 extra FPS.

Besides . . . .

the 257 ROberts is much coooler.

BMT

I have two, but it reads 250AI on the barrels...

If we were to get Elk here in Alabam'I'd be wanting me one of them .260/.338's....Course i wouldn't NEED it i could just buy a .30/06 and those 180 Partitions...But my name is Dave and i belong to 24hourcampfire dot com and they made me into a Rifle Loony.

"Personally, I believe that the .25 Souper with a good 100-grain bullet would be an excellent big game round"

I agree!

As good at the 243 win is, the 25-308 would be even better with more bullet weight selection.

I will keep shooting my 257 bobs until the 25-308 comes around.

"I think you will find it offers no gains over the .260 Rem on the top end and no gains over the .243 below it"

Exactly!

It is a happy medium between the two. for better or worse, the 243 is here to stay. I dont think the 260 will be all that popular over time. with the 25-308, you could do away with both!

If I am going to have a 6mm, mine is and will be the 240 Wby. As fars as 6.5s go, I tried six or seven and they are all gone, too close the the King (the 270).

"I can just see it now. The factories introduce the .25-08 (maybe called the .250 Super-Duper) with a 100-grain bullet at 3100 and a 117 at 2900 (about what could be safely accomplished in factory ammo) with great fanfare, and many gun writers slaying unfortunate pronghorns and whitetails right and left. Then the gun writers rush to their computers and desperately try to convince the gun-buying public that somehow these ballistics are new and revolutionary and absolutely necessary for slaying pronghorns and whitetails"

John, I nominate you for the job, seriously!

The 257 is great, I have invested in three of them that currently reside in my safe.

A 25-308, loaded to modern pressures, would be a fine cartridge indeed and probably the most ideal beginners cartridge you could find.

The 257 rob is simply jaded by those who dont know it well and is loaded cool (I know you can get +p stuff but that confuses most folks).

come on John, what do you say???

Sometimes I wonder if I am writing into a rifle loony vacuum. I mean, I like to argue nits as much as anybody, but this one takes the cake.

Only one company doesn't load +P .257 ammo these days. That's Remington, with their 75-year old round-nose Core-Lokt load at 2650.

Other than that, the SLOWEST .257 load on the market is the Federal 120-grain Nosler Partition "Premium," advertised at 2780 fps. In every 24" barrel I've ever shot it through (and 24" is what most commercial rifle ammo is standardized with these days), this ammo has exceeded 2800 fp, sometimes by quite a bit. The other two companies that load .257 ammo, Winchester and Hornady, offer faster loads with 117-grain bullets, one the Hornady Light Magnum, which gets well over 2900 fps in 24" barrels.

So three of the four major ammo companies already make .257 Bob ammo that will duplicate anything the .25-08 would do. Plus, probably 1% of the rifle loonies who would buy a .25-08 wouldn't buy factory anyway. They'd load their own.

Yeah, the factories might offer a 100-grain load, but again so what? Then they would be competing with the 100-grain .243 Winchester and 100-grain .25-06. Believe me, the average guy (or even the average rifle loony) is not going to buy a .25-08 so that he can slightly exceed the .243 but not quite match the .25-06, no matter how much anybody beats the drum for short actions.

If for some reason he does, he can still find a .257 Roberts, either used or in a new Hawkeye. They just sold a .257 Hawkeye at the local store the other day. I also have been secretloy told that another major rifle company is going to bring out a .257 Bob soon.

If anybody wants a .25 that essentially matches the .257 Roberts (or .243 or .25-06), yet DOESN'T want a .257 Roberts, then they are a rifle loony beyond all redemption and will go ahead and get a .25-08 made. Or a .250 Ackley or .257 Ackley or .25/.284 or any of a zillion slight variations that all do basically the same things as a handloaded .257 Bob or .25-06.

And there really isn't enough difference between any of them for even the average rifle loony to tell any difference in the field. I know, because I have used about all of them, and if the bullet ends up in the same place, and the animal dies.

Now, maybe one of our friends from the 800-yard big game shooting club could tell us precisely how and why each differs, but they would probably be using a "tactical" .308 or a 6.5mm wildcat, instead of a boring old .25 caliber.

So let it die. Or go buy a .257.

I was looking for a 257 Roberts and Mickey Coleman was selling a 250AI he had build for himself. I now own two 250AI's.

Funny how things play.....

JB:

"Plus, probably 1% of the rifle loonies who would buy a .25-08 wouldn't buy factory anyway. They'd load their own."

I think I know what you meant, but that's not what you said!

"I also have been secretloy told that another major rifle company is going to bring out a .257 Bob soon."

Oh, please let it be the new M70, in a short action Featherweight!

Ah com'on John, you can tell us. We'll keep it a secret!

I'll bet that the .12 Special, the T-65 case necked to .124", was pretty fast and it sure threw a hatful of powder down a small hole. Good way to burn out a barrel in one-hundred rounds.

Steve

I suppose I have to plead guilty to the rifle loony tag.

Page one: I looked long and hard for a bolt-action 250 Savage. Nada. Ten years of nada. Seems to be a rifle that NOBODY lets escape from their safe. Gotta be a reason.

Page two: Possibly the one round that Parker Otto gushed about the most was the 250AI. So I cogitated. Then I looked up the 250AI case capacity. Hmmmm, right at 50 grains of water. Hey, wait a sec. Isn't the... Yes!

Page three: LOVE my 25-308! Getting 250AI ballistics with MUCH easier to find and form cases is just a thrill. No, it doesn't do anything a lot better than the 243 or the (then nonexistent) 260. But it does what it does with panache. When people at the range see the targets and ask about it, they marvel. I bask in the glow from their wide-eyed faces.

If somebody offered it in a trim lightweight sporter, I'd be flipping plastic at 'em pronto.