Then why did that bullet "puke" toad? I will wholeheartedly agree there are better bullets available. But, when used in cartridges of "normal" velocities and put where a bullet is supposed to go, elk die. As I said, done it myself. Lots of times. I know guys still doing it. If you told them there were better bullets, they would shrug it off and continue filling the freezer. And make fun of those of us spending big cash on "premiums". mtmuley