whitepaper: first off, thanks for posting the youtube link.
As for the video link posted: thanks, again. But I will reiterate comments I made about these "balllistic research" videos on a different thread. The videos are interesting, and they are to some degree entertaining, but they should not be taken as "proof" of anything. The gelatin blocks were shot at too high a temperature, the placement of denim was not according to protocol, and so forth.
You can deduce that the temperature of those blocks were too high, just from looking at them? protocol calls that they be stored at 39.x *F, and shot within 20 minutes of removing. BB calibration was to spec.
This is not to say there isn't useful information in the videos. Since you didn't take the time to summarize the results (which would save a lot of time on the part of readers of this forum, next time you want to post video as "proof", do us a kindness and summarize the data so those who don't have the time or inclination to sit through 25 minutes of video can review the information).
Sorry, I left the video as a tool in aiding further education. If you're too lazy to watch all of the videos to further your education/knowledge (as you were the one who originally claim this round is a complete failure), that's your own boat to float. Last I checked, when handed a text book, you don't get a summarized paper with it.
So, summarizing the video results:
1. All rounds were chronographed 5 times.
2. All rounds were tested in gelatin only 3 times (7 less than the minimum number required for validity in most test protocols).
3. Protector bullets all fragmented dramatically. Fragments penetrated 11" to 14".
4. SS190 bullets all penetrated 14" to 15+", and did not fragment.
5. SS197 bullets exhibited dramatic fragmentation again, with fragments penetrating 14-18".
6. S5 bullets did not fragment, and penetrated 16-18".
7. S4M bullets (shot through denim, unlike the other tests, so comparison to the other tests is not valid) penetrated 11-15", without fragmentation.
IF, and it is a big IF, the 3-shot tests truly represented the manner in which the ammunition will and should perform in real shootings, IMHO none of these rounds would be acceptable for LE/military use.
You seem to be quite the picker and chooser of information. FBI mandated protocol calls for anywhere from 12-15" as more than enough penetration, and I do believe even your "friend" Doc Roberts, says 18" is the maximum amount of desired penetration. Although FBI protocol, does not define maximum. You're summary of the S4 is incorrect, as they took shots sans denim.
So you have rounds tested that all meet recommended penetration depths, but you think they lack merit for acceptable LE use? I'm sure the maker of that video would gladly test all rounds again with all protocols (Steel, Glass, the "proper" denim cover), but individuals taking the time to perform this tests, pay for this out of pocket..
Two of the five rounds tested demonstrated fragmentation into many small pieces, very much like a varmint bullet. Real world use has shown that varmint bullets work well on varmints, but work poorly on armed felons, which is why all LE ammunition for the past 25 years has been designed to hold together so that the greatest proportion of the bullet's mass penetrates the most deeply. A bullet that penetrates through armor and then dissipates its force in 100+ pieces thereafter isn't going to get the job done.
Three of the five rounds presented did not fragment, but they did not expand, either, nor did they fragment into 2 or 3 large pieces. I have done analysis on several LE shootings where failure of bullets (5.56 caliber) to expand/fragment has been a major contributing factor to the failure of said rounds to stop the violent actions of the felon receiving those bullets.
Wait you just said fragmentation from above was bad, but now it's okay. Remember the 5.7x28mm is not a typical pistol round that relies on large expansion. Typically mimics rifle rounds, in terms of yawing, fragmentation and expansion. 5.56x45mm, 75gr BTHP/WC T2 which is a highly regarded SD round in the AR platform exhbits extreme amounts of fragmentation. Must be a varmit bullet..
![[Linked Image]](http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/MiscDocuments/SAMMI_pressure_Hornady_75_gel_shot_from_16_inch_barrel.jpg)
The way I see it, is there seems to be quite a few examples of this cartridge being proven in the pistol plaform. Someone can easily pull up the 5+ pages of all the drug cartels using it. What have we seen over the past 5yrs or so from the camp that opposes it? Not a single shred of any analysis done on the round. It's the same copy/paste articles, that put tidbits of information together. Like the referenced 9mm HP vs the discontinued SS90 round. Where are the gel tests of this plaftform showing it's failures. Never seen any. Then again I'm not LE, so apparently we're not allowed to see just these results from just this caliber, but every other caliber is free for us to see the analysis..
