Originally Posted by stray round
Originally Posted by Barak
you're the one around here who's failing to perceive the distinction between mala prohibita and mala in se. And that distinction isn't even a matter of degree. Not sure I'd bring up that argument if I were you.


Perhaps the argument could be made that drugs are mala in se from my vantage point it would definitely qualify. A material that is injested that steals reasoning and holds a person against their will, causing them to commit acts that are evil? If that isn't wrong in itself and prohibits peaceful reasonable interaction between member of society I don't know what is.

You're trying to get to an aggressor/victim scenario by painting the drugs as an aggressor and the user as a victim.

I understand the attraction, but it won't work. An inanimate rock of cocaine can't be an aggressor any more than a loaded handgun lying on a table can be an aggressor. They're both completely incapable of any action whatsoever until picked up and put to use by a moral agent. If the moral agent uses them to victimize somebody else, then you've got your aggressor/victim scenario; but if he voluntarily uses them on himself, whether to harm or to heal, you simply have no standing in the situation. Any coercive move you make is tyrannical, period.

I have watched close friends who were really trying to get off drugs relapse back into them. It tears me up inside when that happens, but it's their choice, not mine. I can't keep them separated from drugs 24/7; if anybody's going to do that, it's going to have to be them, and the only way they're ever going to develop the strength to be able to do that is to learn to make their own painful choices. I can support; but overriding or preventing their choice is only harmful in the long run, not helpful.

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I'm on the libertarian wagon but jump off when it comes to drugs.

I understand. I had my own issues with the libertarian wagon during my slide from conservative to anarchist. Mostly minors for me, not drugs, but I did a lot of reading and studying, and it turned out that a lot of smart people had done a lot of deep thinking already on the subject, and it helped.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain--that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." --Lysander Spooner, 1867