Enjoyed the imput on this thread ,points a guy in the right directions without spending a lot a cash trying ever damn load out there. I allways keep the 20 ga Express loaded with the #3 buck 20 pellet load cause that's all there was for the 20. One day a buddy came out with his new Saiga 12 and Fed Premiun 12ga 00 buck loads to try for patterns on my railroad tie backstop. His non choked effective patterns stopped at 25yds penetration was mostly < 1/2" and some bounced back but cresote soaked rr ties are pretty tough. I am not afraid of being assaulted by rr ties it was just what my backstop is for reference. I thought about that for a couple of weeks and then went spring goose hunting out east,I hit a con store for gas in Watertown SD. They also sold all sorts of shells and some older 2 3/4" Fed steel was being dumped by the flat real cheap. 2 3/4" Fed T shot for $65 a flat so I got him a couple of flats for his Saiga , uh I mean goose gun. For inside the house use, I can't imagine that load being ineffective. But back to the 20 load, a while back a guy I know gave me a large amt of .530 muzzleloader balls he had incorrectly cast with lead containing tin and antimony which made them hard enough to not be able to get them down the barrel of his 54. So they been a sitting around waitng for me to recycle into .358 bullets or something else. 2 of them fit perfectly in the shot cup of a 1 oz Rem power piston wad and weigh just under an 1 oz. 40 grs of grex spread thru bottom layer ,between the bottom ball and top one and a little over the top. They crimp nice . I used a powder charge for a 1 oz load. At slightly over 1200 fps the gave me a 2" pair of holes at 20 yds .53 caliber. 5 shots thru the gun in 4 seconds,I can keep all 10 53 calibur balls on a paper plate at 35 yds with ease. penetration on the same rr ties is 4-5". Not telling anyone else what to use, I have my own answers that look too me will work. Magnum Man