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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,598 Likes: 9
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,598 Likes: 9 |
Goog'd TX jury instruction on self-defense:
A person is justified in using deadly force against another if he is justified in using force against the other in self-defense; and when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary
"Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor.
Appears to be an objective standard.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,240
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,240 |
Hard to say exactly what happened in the moment before the shots were fired, but clearly something alarmed the officers as they both moved backwards as the shots were fired almost simultaneously.
Did he say, "now I'm going to carve you up like a Christmas Goose" while lowering his arm? (if that arm was even raised?
In looking at the totality of the circumstances: -a person with a knife who had used on a female -a person who is non complaint -a person who was able to withstand efforts to obtain his compliance by less than lethal force.
Does not seem like it would be unreasonable for an officer to fire one round.
"Put none but Americans on guard tonight." -George Washington
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Cops don't normally tell somebody to put their hands up, contrary to what TV says. If this guy had a weapon, or was reasonably believed to have one, and moved in the slightest way, he needed shooting. That's ridiculous. If you can't determine whether or not he was armed at 20 ft, you need to be in the Helen Keller Institute. Chinese throwing stars would have posed a bigger threat than a knife at that distance. The scared or panic stricken don't need to wear a badge...or this happens. They better pray he was holding a grenade or they're toast.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
"Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor.
Appears to be an objective standard.
Yes indeed.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
Cops don't normally tell somebody to put their hands up, contrary to what TV says. If this guy had a weapon, or was reasonably believed to have one, and moved in the slightest way, he needed shooting. That's ridiculous. If you can't determine whether or not he was armed at 20 ft, you need to be in the Helen Keller Institute. Chinese throwing stars would have posed a bigger threat than a knife at that distance. The scared or panic stricken don't need to wear a badge...or this happens. They better pray he was holding a grenade or they're toast. I don't think you can know the whole story from that video. But what he was or did in the past is one thing, but you had two cops a distance away with two guns leveled on the guy with his hands up. He could have been bad mouthing them a lot, but he was still a distance away with two cops that had him cold with there weapons, clear shots. I think they better have a dang good reason for them taking those shots at that point in time. I didn't see him trying to get back in the house, and the justification part is goona get sticky i think. And yes, i have a long time ago faced similar situations.
Last edited by RoninPhx; 09/02/15.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
I'm hoping like heck there is more too it.
Fact is, If that was an average Joe pulling the trigger under those circumstances, he'd be spending the rest of his life in prison.
From what can be seen in the video, the cops made a very poor decision.
Had that guy been black, 5 cities would be on fire tonight.
It looks terrible on the surface. Damn.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
Point: an everyday citizen would be under an affirmative duty to retreat if he could do so in complete safety to himself. Police are NOT under such obligation. They,once on scene, are obligated to follow the incident through. NO retreat.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 54,284 |
Point: an everyday citizen would be under an affirmative duty to retreat if he could do so in complete safety to himself. Police are NOT under such obligation. They,once on scene, are obligated to follow the incident through. NO retreat. Citizens of the state of Texas have no duty to retreat.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,945 Likes: 5 |
Latest updates.... 1) Second video reportedly shows perp with knife in hand when hands were raised. 2) At least one, possibly both officers had already deployed their tasers to no effect. 3) Paramedic also on scene reported perp attacking officers, also reported perp announcing intention to have the officers kill him. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-of-fatal-BCSO-6480596.php#photo-8493568
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
Latest updates.... 1) Second video reportedly shows perp with knife in hand when hands were raised. 2) At least one, possibly both officers had already deployed their tasers to no effect. 3) Paramedic also on scene reported perp attacking officers, also reported perp announcing intention to have the officers kill him. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-of-fatal-BCSO-6480596.php#photo-8493568 So, an eye witness was there that supports the shoot. Non-lethal means had already been used and proven ineffective. The suspect/deceased was also still armed. That might change things.
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Latest updates.... 1) Second video reportedly shows perp with knife in hand when hands were raised. 2) At least one, possibly both officers had already deployed their tasers to no effect. 3) Paramedic also on scene reported perp attacking officers, also reported perp announcing intention to have the officers kill him. http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/lo...-of-fatal-BCSO-6480596.php#photo-8493568 So, an eye witness was there that supports the shoot. Non-lethal means had already been used and proven ineffective. The suspect/deceased was also still armed. That might change things. Except to the "expurts" here
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,490 |
If there is indeed another video clearly showing what a "good shoot" this is then the cops are truly baiting for not releasing it, why all of the secrets?
Why wait till the city burns to say see " its all good", we didn't just shoot him.
If they don't have the skills, maybe the news crew could broadcast it for them.
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
If there is indeed another video clearly showing what a "good shoot" this is then the cops are truly baiting for not releasing it, why all of the secrets?
Why wait till the city burns to say see " its all good", we didn't just shoot him.
If they don't have the skills, maybe the news crew could broadcast it for them. Because that's how things work with evidence. It doesn't get released immediately You do know the cops didn't release the first video right?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Point: an everyday citizen would be under an affirmative duty to retreat if he could do so in complete safety to himself. Police are NOT under such obligation. They,once on scene, are obligated to follow the incident through. NO retreat. That's fine & dandy, only problem with that is he was not attempting to approach the officers. So it's a mute point.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Point: an everyday citizen would be under an affirmative duty to retreat if he could do so in complete safety to himself. Police are NOT under such obligation. They,once on scene, are obligated to follow the incident through. NO retreat. That's fine & dandy, only problem with that is he was not attempting to approach the officers. So it's a mute point. Unless you're refusing to read it out loud, it'd have to be a moot point.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,490 |
Because thats how its done? Really!
That's why the big trust issue keeps coming up, there is no reason as to not end the speculation now, unless there is some thing not to be shown.
Writing here is Prohibited by the authorities.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Cops don't normally tell somebody to put their hands up, contrary to what TV says. If this guy had a weapon, or was reasonably believed to have one, and moved in the slightest way, he needed shooting. That's ridiculous. If you can't determine whether or not he was armed at 20 ft, you need to be in the Helen Keller Institute. Chinese throwing stars would have posed a bigger threat than a knife at that distance. The scared or panic stricken don't need to wear a badge...or this happens. They better pray he was holding a grenade or they're toast. I have news for you. If you have just cut somebody up and are standing 20' away from a cop with a knife...you better not twitch, 'cause killing you will be justified.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,073 Likes: 4 |
Cops don't normally tell somebody to put their hands up, contrary to what TV says. If this guy had a weapon, or was reasonably believed to have one, and moved in the slightest way, he needed shooting. That's ridiculous. If you can't determine whether or not he was armed at 20 ft, you need to be in the Helen Keller Institute. Chinese throwing stars would have posed a bigger threat than a knife at that distance. The scared or panic stricken don't need to wear a badge...or this happens. They better pray he was holding a grenade or they're toast. I have news for you. If you have just cut somebody up and are standing 20' away from a cop with a knife...you better not twitch, 'cause killing you will be justified. 20 feet is about a second and a half sprint.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Because thats how its done? Really!
That's why the big trust issue keeps coming up, there is no reason as to not end the speculation now, unless there is some thing not to be shown. Unfortunately this is real life, not an episode episode of Law and order or NCIS where evidence is found, processed and dispositions made all within an hours time-span That video will be reviewed by an forensic scientist for verification and authenticity, it will be broken down and dissected by investigators numerous times to see if it corroborate with statements and myriad of other things. Those all take time AND precidence over public outcry or perceived trust issues
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Because thats how its done? Really!
That's why the big trust issue keeps coming up, there is no reason as to not end the speculation now, unless there is some thing not to be shown. Are you a girl ? if not,.... You strike me as the type of cat (puzzy) that would complain about your ice cream being too goddam cold. WTF do you LIVE, anyway ? GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats -- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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