Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting The 300 Wby Mag for elk- is there anything better?

I'm sure guys like the old hunters in Africa shot hundreds if not thousands of buff with POS Kynoch bullets, but time marches on, and the Partition aint even in the same universe as a TSX, Aframe, NF, CEB, etc.

time marches on, and the Partition aint even in the same universe as a TSX, Aframe, NF, CEB, etc.

What a complete crock of chit.

How do you know the partition blew up?

Don't have the time nor desire to press this, suffice to say the test results of all these bullets regarding penetration are posted over on AR (over a thousand pages of posts, complete with photos and charts) that say just that. As to very little killing of buffalo, it is asinine to say those PHs had "very little killing of buffalo". Further, there are myriad posts over on AR, including the site's owner and Partition users for large, dangerous game are in a very distinct minority.

How?

Because of the very small pieces of lead and jacket all over the inside of the moose. It did kill the moose fast enough, so I am not complaining about that. Maybe the 250-grainer loaded at 2800 fps was too fast? I don't really know, except that it expanded too fast. I still have around 10 rounds of the 250-grain NOS HE, but don't want to hunt with them in bear country.

All I am saying is that I prefer another controlled-expansion bullet that is designed to retain a lot more of its weight than the partition. Now, the Partition Gold is supposed to do that (it is tougher), but I haven't use it.

"Dudes" you mean like the owner of the site with more that 200 buffalo to his credit, or do you mean the myriad PHs who post there? Are there "dudes" ( I guess I'm one of those) who post there? of course. Here's a picture of a recovered Partition (on the right) having lost it's front core (yes, from a dead buffalo). A Frame won't do that, it's an "improved" Partition.



And here's the link to the thread from hell. Plenty of dead animal and tissue analysis by vets as well.
link

While I don't personally use RN bullets while I head west, I don't particularly dote on the BC of the bullet either. I have taken elk with the TSX, Partition and Accubonds. I'd gladly run the Northforks or Swifts for the same jobs. My absolute max range that I can practice to is 600 yards. I think a higher BC bullet may assist with a breeze I can't feel from my shooting position, but honestly, if I can feel a strong enough wind, I am holding fire or finding a way to cut the distance. What I won't take a chance of is getting into the timber with elk and being worried about if my bullet will smash the onside and hopefully the far side legs upclose. As so one said, most of the elk hunting kills for me have been around 250-300 yards. If there was a sleek high BC bullet that I knew would expand (and maintain its frontal area) when the speed as dropped off and but still would hold up, up close, I'd run them in all the guns. So far, the closet I have taken animals with is the AB and PT's. Not knocking the others, just haven't used them yet. I will say I tend towards the heavier end of AB's just to hedge my bets and I haven't been bitten yet.

As for the 300 Wby... Well, I have seen it work EXCELLENT with the 180 PT and 200 AB. So much so there isn't much I would worry about hunting with those two. Same goes for the 200 PT, just haven't taken or observed any elk taken with them.

Someone mentioned the 250 PT from a 338 Win Mag blowing up, and I wouldn't question it, but I have seen that bullet blow through a ton of bone and meat and put it into a bunch of water jugs and never once seen it start to do anything wonky, but just as with anything man made, stuff happens, but for hunting really furry stuff, I'd stake my life on that bullet as much as anything else that is made.

Jorge,

There are differences in the way Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames do their job, but they are more varied than you suggest, and often more subtle.

First, penetration is at least as related to frontal area of the mushroom as weight retention, which is exactly why A-Frames don't penetrate any deeper, on average, than Nosler Partitions or equal weight and diameter. This is especially true of heavier, larger-caliber Partitions, which have the partition moved forward so they'll retain more weight. Nosler designs them to retain at least 75% of their weight, even if they lose the front core, but if they do retain some core they normally retain about as much weight as A-Frames.

Second, the shape of the mushroom also has considerable effect on the wound channel. If flat or "cupped" (like a Partition that's lost its front core) damage from cavitation is increased considerably beyond the diameter of the bullet. This is why flat-nosed or cupped solids do more internal damage than round-nose solids, but also applies to expanding bullets. A-Frames end up with a rounded mushroom, which creates a hole in vital tissue almost totally due to the wide diameter of the expanded bullet. Partitions damage considerable tissue too, but more of it results from slightly more "shrapnel" and a flat/cupped mushroom.

Third, apparently the vast majority of shooters aren't aware that only the FRONT end of A-Frames is bonded. The rear end isn't, which is why the rear half often bulges widely when the bullet hits larger bones, or even softer tissue at close range. This also reduces penetration, but helps makes a bigger hole.

The jackets of Nosler Partitions are made of gilding metal, which is harder than the pure copper of A-Frames, and the jacket over the rear core is thicker as well. Consequently it's rare to see a recovered Partition with even a slight bulge in the rear core, and I have yet to find one where the rear core punched through the partition, but have seen that with the occasional A-Frame.

Both are great bullets, but the A-Frame cannot be simply termed an "improved" Partition, because of the several other differences, especially in materials and jacket thickness. Partitions work in other ways that affect both penetration and wound channel, far more than merely bonding the front core. I know this because I've tested a bunch of both in various kinds of media, including animals.

Meanwhile, back at the elk topic...I guess I am less inclined to worry about all the nuances of one bullet over another. I have killed a bunch of elk with a Remington 150 grain Core-Lokt bullet and there are lots of people badmouth that bullet.

I still have hundreds of rounds loaded with that bullet and you won't be seeing me throw them out anytime soon...