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IF I thought you were an honest seeker - and I was shackled to the Bible - I'd ask you to consider a Creator God who runs the Universe on two basic principles :
Absolute Justice
Absolute Mercy
In the unavoidable collision of these incompatible principles, He satisfies His Justice AND His Mercy by standing in the Dock for Humanity.
That is of course, if you accept the vicarious sacrifice deal. I personally believe that the vicarious sacrifice angle is but a shadow of what Jesus's death actually accomplished.
Not clear how the collision of the two principles would work within the confines of the Bible. Can you clarify what you mean by example? For example, what would be the eternal fate of a soul that had committed the sin of cursing the Holy Spirit?
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What I see in the flood is the salvation of man. That about that for a minute, and about just how twisted your morality has become. You consider the deliberate murder of every person on the face of the earth, except 8, to be a good and just thing. In the Bible, how many people did Satan actually kill? How many did your god kill? That's really interesting. First you state that God doesn't exist,while at the same time accusing him of murder. Your position is that the flood never happened,yet God is guilty of killing innocents because of it. If you want to argue your position from a fairy tale,you must at least not edit the fairy tail to fit your position. You need to remember that the Bible,says that man had become evil to the extreme.Even in that God saved the just,and had the just man preach righteousness for 100 years to the scoffers. Since you are the believer of the Bible, it is your burden to justify or ignore the murders of your God. Not AS.
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Campfire Outfitter
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What I see in the flood is the salvation of man. That about that for a minute, and about just how twisted your morality has become. You consider the deliberate murder of every person on the face of the earth, except 8, to be a good and just thing. In the Bible, how many people did Satan actually kill? How many did your god kill? That's really interesting. First you state that God doesn't exist,while at the same time accusing him of murder. Your position is that the flood never happened,yet God is guilty of killing innocents because of it. If you want to argue your position from a fairy tale,you must at least not edit the fairy tail to fit your position. You need to remember that the Bible,says that man had become evil to the extreme.Even in that God saved the just,and had the just man preach righteousness for 100 years to the scoffers. Since you are the believer of the Bible, it is your burden to justify or ignore the murders of your God. Not AS. Not to those who reject God, though I'm often guilty of trying.
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Campfire Ranger
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curdog4570, all I can say is that the bible makes Him out to be much too small. The Bible makes God out to be Infinite. How can a God be more than Infinite? If you think you comprehend Infinity, Eternity,Self Existent, and other such terms, you are wrong. The human mind is incapable of that level of comprehension. That's why the Bronze Age explanation comes about as close as anything a "modern" mind could construct. A simple idea that works is preferable to any number of complicated ideas. The smartest man I ever met had Doctorates in Medicine and Law plus a Masters in Engineering. His fees for serving as an Expert Witness were out of sight, but he was always in great demand. His talent lay in convincing ordinary folks that they understood complicated issues well enough to render a judgement. Confronted with creatures who were earnestly and honestly striving to understand their Creator, but drawing erroneous conclusions about Him,what solution would Infinite Wisdom come up with? He gave them a pattern they could not fail to recognize...... He became one of them. As I said at the git-go:
A simple idea that works is preferable to any number of complicated ideas.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Ranger
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For example, what would be the eternal fate of a soul that had committed the sin of cursing the Holy Spirit? I believe that the "unpardonable sin" you are referring to is a lot more prevalent than is commonly held by Preachers.For instance: Were I to SINCERELY take credit for something that I knew was the work of the Spirit, I would be guilty of that sin. It would be beyond God's ability to pardon, but not because of a lack of Mercy. The Holy Spirit is the source of my Spiritual life. In the example I've given, I'd be just like a child holding his breath until he dies. A parent can't breathe for him. Now what is the result of Spiritual Death? Not being willing to use words I can't comprehend [like eternal] puts me at a disadvantage but you deserve as truthful an answer as I can give. Right now, you and I are like seatmates on a flight, so obviously our immediate destination is the same.... physical death. I know that I have a connecting flight to a final destination once we land. The ticket for that flight was arranged by the same source as this one, and I'm enjoying this flight, so I'm certain I'll like the next one as well.
You tell me that Los Angeles is as far as you're going. 
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Know God and you will know His law is not only just but also abundantly Gracious.[b][/b] Indeed it is. What is the penalty for the pederast-rapist who raped your unbetrothed virgin daughter? Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. Would you and/or your daughter be content with that? Would you allow a pederast-rapist son-in-law into your family? It does seem semi-gracious to the rapist though. There's no reason to live in the past. The law is now distilled down to just this: loving God fully, and your neighbor as yourself. The latter can be difficult for me, but there is all the Grace that's needed to get past any shortfalls there, too. Have a great day in the Lord!
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Ranger
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curdog4570, If you think you comprehend Infinity, Eternity,Self Existent, and other such terms, you are wrong. The human mind is incapable of that level of comprehension. You constantly tell us God reveals things to you through the Spirit. And at the same time you tell us "If you think you comprehend "Infinity, Eternity,Self Existent, and other such terms, you are wrong." Don't you think the Spirit can reveal any or all of these concepts to one person without revealing them to another person? If not then your god is more limited than the God of the Bible.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Oracle
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What I see in the flood is the salvation of man. That about that for a minute, and about just how twisted your morality has become. You consider the deliberate murder of every person on the face of the earth, except 8, to be a good and just thing. In the Bible, how many people did Satan actually kill? How many did your god kill? Satan killed all those who died in the flood, because he lured them to choose evil over good and they would not repent of their sins. When a murderer is put to death who is responsible, we for carrying out law, God for giving us the law, or Satan for becoming his master at the time of his crimes. I know you will say the murderer caused his death by choosing to murder, but Satan brought the desire to him and us. Justice is only a byword on earth, but justice will prevail, one way or the other.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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curdog4570, If you think you comprehend Infinity, Eternity,Self Existent, and other such terms, you are wrong. The human mind is incapable of that level of comprehension. You constantly tell us God reveals things to you through the Spirit. And at the same time you tell us "If you think you comprehend "Infinity, Eternity,Self Existent, and other such terms, you are wrong." Don't you think the Spirit can reveal any or all of these concepts to one person without revealing them to another person? If not then your god is more limited than the God of the Bible. Revelations that I receive seem to be on a "need to know basis". If you can explain to me just why it is that YOU need answers that have eluded the rest of mankind, then I'm willing to believe you. I've never received anything of a spiritual nature that is not available to all of us. You know you are treading dangerous ground if you think you are "special". Something about God not being "a respecter of persons".
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Tracker
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There's no reason to live in the past. The law is now distilled down to just this: loving God fully, and your neighbor as yourself. The latter can be difficult for me, but there is all the Grace that's needed to get past any shortfalls there, too. Have a great day in the Lord! A bit of Bible pruning going on there but that is not novel. It has been going on for centuries. The Bible as the inerrant, timeless, word of God has been a hard notion for Modern Christians to fully justify. So it is natural to ignore or update the hard parts. Abiding to the current law, my salutation is then: May all your neighbors not be Democrats.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Since you are the believer of the Bible, it is your burden to justify or ignore the murders of your God. Not AS.
It's no burden at all. Believers understand it is neither their's to justify or ignore what the Lord says or does, but accept and learn from these things. The creator cannot murder His creation as it is His to do with as He chooses. The Lord gives and takes away, because He alone is the Lord. This is all very simple. Why do you try to make it hard or something it is not. You likely don't even believe in the flood, and if not, it's quite disingenuous for you to press a point regarding it.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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"The Devil made me do it the first time
Second time I done it on my own..."
[Billy Joe Shaver's "Black Rose"]
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Oracle
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Curdog, thanks for your having spent such effort in replying to my question. I find your take on it to be pretty much my take also, but I may rely more on the words in the Bible to draw my interpretations.
I consider our christian concerns to be after the fact of being saved and consideration of higher learning. Like, many people are already hunters, but they still have different knowledge, MOAs, techniques, beliefs and manners.
I think sometimes people forget the scripture saying the kingdom is at hand. I never really understood that. Now, I believe that is true and means all we have to do is grab it by asking to be saved, believing in Jesus Christ, and repenting of our sins. Now, I accept those who do so are saved, though they still are sinners who will seek to be Christ like and changed.
Until lately, I really never realized that we really are to be childlike and enjoy the knowledge that we are now saved by our faith in His grace and by His blood.
Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. Heb 11:1
Last edited by jaguartx; 09/19/16.
Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
I Dindo Nuffin
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[ The creator cannot murder His creation as it is His to do with as He chooses. With your line of reasoning, an authentic atheist that aborts his/her fetus is not committing murder.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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There's no reason to live in the past. The law is now distilled down to just this: loving God fully, and your neighbor as yourself. The latter can be difficult for me, but there is all the Grace that's needed to get past any shortfalls there, too. Have a great day in the Lord! A bit of Bible pruning going on there but that is not novel. It has been going on for centuries. The Bible as the inerrant, timeless, word of God has been a hard notion for Modern Christians to fully justify. So it is natural to ignore or update the hard parts. Abiding to the current law, my salutation is then: May all your neighbors not be Democrats. Truth is not a hard notion and no pruning in my response. Your question to me was about my daughter and she and I are not under the law, but under Grace. Now lets forget that you would never ask me that face to face, not knowing how I, as a loving and caring Father, would react to such a vile and vulgar affront, but putting cowardice aside, I'll explain how this former law was perfect in all ways. With the culture of the day in context, a virgin who was deflowered would likely not be able to become married and be a part of a productive family necessary for survival in that time. So the forced marriage meant survival for her, and punishment for him. That she could never be divorced meant she could take out her retribution on her disdained husband for the rest of her and his life, if that is what she chose to do. Hell hath no fury.... But, if her father decided her future would be better by not marrying her attacker, Exodus 22:17 would allow him to do as he thought best for her regarding impending matrimony. And then, if he chose to cut off the rapists balls, I doubt any of his community would protest. But being under Grace and not law, I am more given to that manner of supposition and the sexual pruning I would tend towards.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Tracker
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Since you are the believer of the Bible, it is your burden to justify or ignore the murders of your God. Not AS.
It's no burden at all. Believers understand it is neither their's to justify or ignore what the Lord says or does, but accept and learn from these things. The creator cannot murder His creation as it is His to do with as He chooses. The Lord gives and takes away, because He alone is the Lord. This is all very simple. Why do you try to make it hard or something it is not. You likely don't even believe in the flood, and if not, it's quite disingenuous for you to press a point regarding it. Was it not Christians that claimed that God cannot be unjust? To create a living, sentient being with free will that does not wish to be killed and then kill him makes a very flawed example of justice.
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Campfire Ranger
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curdog4570, Revelations that I receive seem to be on a "need to know basis". What you experience may not be the same for everyone. If you can explain to me just why it is that YOU need answers that have eluded the rest of mankind, then I'm willing to believe you. You are imputing your experience to the rest of mankind. That is not good logic. I've never received anything of a spiritual nature that is not available to all of us. Since I don't know what others have received in a spiritual nature I have no idea what is available to everyone else. You know you are treading dangerous ground if you think you are "special". How do you know this? Did you get the revelation from God that you are not "special" therefore you think it is "treading dangerous ground" for someone with a different revelation to think something different?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Tracker
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There's no reason to live in the past. The law is now distilled down to just this: loving God fully, and your neighbor as yourself. The latter can be difficult for me, but there is all the Grace that's needed to get past any shortfalls there, too. Have a great day in the Lord! A bit of Bible pruning going on there but that is not novel. It has been going on for centuries. The Bible as the inerrant, timeless, word of God has been a hard notion for Modern Christians to fully justify. So it is natural to ignore or update the hard parts. Abiding to the current law, my salutation is then: May all your neighbors not be Democrats. Truth is not a hard notion and no pruning in my response. Your question to me was about my daughter and she and I are not under the law, but under Grace. Now lets forget that you would never ask me that face to face, not knowing how I, as a loving and caring Father, would react to such a vile and vulgar affront, but putting cowardice aside, I'll explain how this former law was perfect in all ways. With the culture of the day in context, a virgin who was deflowered would likely not be able to become married and be a part of a productive family necessary for survival in that time. So the forced marriage meant survival for her, and punishment for him. That she could never be divorced meant she could take out her retribution on her disdained husband for the rest of her and his life, if that is what she chose to do. Hell hath no fury.... But, if her father decided her future would be better by not marrying her attacker, Exodus 22:17 would allow him to do as he thought best for her regarding impending matrimony. And then, if he chose to cut off the rapists balls, I doubt any of his community would protest. But being under Grace and not law, I am more given to that manner of supposition and the sexual pruning I would tend towards. Truth is, without disregarding that God's inerrant word (the Bible) is timeless, your argument is moot.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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[ The creator cannot murder His creation as it is His to do with as He chooses. With your line of reasoning, an authentic atheist that aborts his/her fetus is not committing murder. So are you saying all authentic atheists do not value human life in it's most vulnerable state? I doubt all would be that vile, but maybe more than not. This is very likely why the most abhorrent and godless supreme court in history ignored the Constitution to create a right never existing or enumerated by the founders. The rise of lieberalism emanates from that court. Are they your hero's?
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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There's no reason to live in the past. The law is now distilled down to just this: loving God fully, and your neighbor as yourself. The latter can be difficult for me, but there is all the Grace that's needed to get past any shortfalls there, too. Have a great day in the Lord! A bit of Bible pruning going on there but that is not novel. It has been going on for centuries. The Bible as the inerrant, timeless, word of God has been a hard notion for Modern Christians to fully justify. So it is natural to ignore or update the hard parts. Abiding to the current law, my salutation is then: May all your neighbors not be Democrats. Truth is not a hard notion and no pruning in my response. Your question to me was about my daughter and she and I are not under the law, but under Grace. Now lets forget that you would never ask me that face to face, not knowing how I, as a loving and caring Father, would react to such a vile and vulgar affront, but putting cowardice aside, I'll explain how this former law was perfect in all ways. With the culture of the day in context, a virgin who was deflowered would likely not be able to become married and be a part of a productive family necessary for survival in that time. So the forced marriage meant survival for her, and punishment for him. That she could never be divorced meant she could take out her retribution on her disdained husband for the rest of her and his life, if that is what she chose to do. Hell hath no fury.... But, if her father decided her future would be better by not marrying her attacker, Exodus 22:17 would allow him to do as he thought best for her regarding impending matrimony. And then, if he chose to cut off the rapists balls, I doubt any of his community would protest. But being under Grace and not law, I am more given to that manner of supposition and the sexual pruning I would tend towards. Truth is, without disregarding that God's inerrant word (the Bible) is timeless, your argument is moot. I have no doubt that is your truth, but it's obviously not THE truth. The Bible is timeless, but not without growth and change. Christ's sacrifice on the cross was that change by which we all had the opportunity to grow from the law into grace. You should join us and stop your constant grousing.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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