Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Hey you athiests...

I didn't read past the first 2 posts...

What I have to offer.. if you have not seen an aetheist die and go to hell and come back to life again, well its MORE than any answer I ever needed to witness...

EMS calls show you a LOT of things....

Of course!

For Christians the Old Testament instructions were "abolished having been nailed to the cross."[/quote]

Yep,

God is so perfect and all knowing, that his original instructions were "abolished". [/quote]







Nope, your statement is based on a false assumption rooted in ignorance. God didn't make a set of rules on what was necessary to be saved and then change his mind about the rules.


God made a set of rules on what is necessary to be saved so you would see that the rules were so strict you couldn't keep them. Then he came to earth as a man and kept all them himself so the only thing you would have to do to be saved is trust in him, that he kept all the rules for you.

You try to see God through your anthropomorphising. God established His "game" from the beginning. If you read the Bible all the way you will discover,

Revelation 13:8
"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The ten Commandments are the ones I am referring to. They were established to lead us to Christ.

Yet every Catholic church is filled with statuary. Even the most devout kneel before these graven images and pray.

I know many extremely devout individuals who pray not to God but to the Blessed Mary, or their favorite Saint.

These people can never repent these actions, as they are not recognized as sin. Yet they are directly contrary to the the most basic of God's earliest teaching.

And


Christ kept the Sabbath on Saturday, as did all his apostles. The Christian Church as a whole observed the Saturday Sabbath for centuries until it was changed to Sunday by man, not by God, not by Christ, during the rule of Constantine.

Sunday sabbath was from the cult of Mithraism, and adopted by the Christian church so they could more easily encompass those who already followed the official church of Rome.

Keeping of the seventh day is commanded by God. How can ignoring this not be a sin of the most egregious nature. And again, how can it be repented as long as the individual does not recognize it is a sin?

Is it any wonder that most of the modern Christian Church teaches that the Old Testament is to be forgotten and ignored. To do otherwise would be to admit the failings of the very foundations of their teachings.

AS posted:


Yep,

God is so perfect and all knowing, that his original instructions were "abolished". [/quote] [s][/s]


Another smart ass comment from someone who knows not whereof he speaks.

In the past, I explained the grouping of OT laws into civil, ceremonial and moral laws. My children understand this but you either do not or turn a blind eye to it as is your desire.

I can explain it to children and they understand. I have explained it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

Even if you did, you could not resist making your smart ass remarks as you see them as reinforcing your mistaken sense of intellectual superiority.

Thanks, RHC.

Now, I wonder who would consider loving their neighbor as works.

He says His desciples love one another. Evidently that is a requirement above just beliving in Christ as savior.

I have often heard unbelievers say that believers fear the thought of death with its percieved finality and dreamed up belief as a crutch. Its amazing how many writers of the different books had the same type of dream, many of which were dreamed up centuries apart.

I have never heard a believer claim an unbeliever may be so afraid of where they may go in the hereafter they use the lack of proof of God as a crutch to keep them from fearing death.

So, do they not accept that they have a spirit? They are only flesh and bone and life? Are they no more than a dog who has no concept of right or wrong and can do nothing other than what its genetic code directs it to do?

Am I to conclude then that you believe all OT and NT commandments must be obeyed to achieve salvation?

I can't speak to all the reasons people refuse Christ. I think it mostly boils down to the god of this world(Satan) having blinded them to believe lies.At the same time it seems pride is a major factor as to why it was possible for Satan to blind them.



I don't see loving people as a requirement,just as something that happens because you love Jesus.

Idaho_Shooter,

You are missing the Law of Moses was done away with. At the same time I find it very difficult to not see the icons in the Catholic church, including Mary, as idols.

About the Sabbath: If you read the book of Acts carefully you will discover the early church got together on Sunday, The Lord's Day. It's irrelevant to us moderns what the state or some cult did a few centuries after Jesus' resurrection.

Also if the Sabbath was so important why is it God did not bring it up until about 2,500 years after creation?

As fr as keep the Law of Moses you need to read Galatians. Specially Galatians 5:1-5

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

Also don't forget the council in Jerusalem recorded in Acts 15. Remember these men claim to have been lead by the Holy Spirit and listed what was important to the Christian Gentiles. No mention of obeying the Laws of Moses. In fact Apostle Peter challenged them to forget the Law.

Acts 15:6-11; 23-28
"Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: 'Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the Word of the Gospel and believe. So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.'

They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

'To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law' —to whom we gave no such commandment— it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: That you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.'"

I believe the devout Christian should understand the basic foundations of his religion and recognize when his chosen belief system departs from that.

I believe he should question the teachings of his chosen church and ask why they do not align with the commandments of an eternal, omniscient God.

I believe any Christian should be obligated to learn and understand something as basic to christian faith as the Ten Commandments, if not Leviticus, to know what the God of Abraham expected from his followers.

I believe to ignore the most basic laws laid down by God through Moses, and proclaim those laws no longer apply because Christ somehow amended them, is to say Christ is a God, but not the God of Abraham.

But yet there is only one Christian God. Eteranal, Omnicient. How can it be both ways?

Are you sacrificing many bulls and sheep and goats and birds to make atonement these days...?

.

Yours is an excellent post, but I don't believe this part can withstand scrutiny just based on my observations.

Granted, there is not much preaching done from the O T but that's a long way from "teaching that it is to be forgotten".

i don't believe not sacrificing them anymore has saved one's animals life to date. and apparently neither the jews or the muslim's received the memo.

after the majority of us signed on to the benefits of vicarious salvation, the traditions did shift. no longer is there riverlets of blood running down the gutters in the temples like they once were.

and besides, what possible good could sacrificing a goat to YHWH do?

Maybe God didnt give proof because He didnt want people like Hitler in Heaven. Ha.

If a man can't see a political agenda in this, he is blind. It is a blatant attempt to reconcile the converted jews to the new gentile converts.

Jesus wept.

Rich, we have discussed this a bit before.

I believe the early Jewish priests were if nothing else gifted statisticians. They recognized the source of many diseases and health issues not common knowledge among the pagan tribes of the period.

Thus they passed down laws concerning the eating of unclean flesh, fish and fowl. They wrote rules regarding cleanliness and washing. The rite of circumcision alleviated many health issues in the tribe. And the Sabbath helped to prevent the selfish master of slaves/servants from working those servants into an early grave.

But soon after Christ's death, the church became more interested in lateral expansion than in the health of its members. And the teachings of the church changed to accommodate that expansion.

We have a population here which will not accept the idea of a male God. For them all good things come from the Mother. They can only believe in a goddess.....so we give them the Madonna.

We have a vast population here we wish to convert. But they worship on Sunday and we can not teach them the proper day is Saturday......... No problem, we are the priesthood. We can change the Sabbath to whatever day we wish.

Here is a population so destitute of water that none may be spared for washing........ The laws of cleanliness are not really THAT important. Do away with them and embrace these people.

And these poor folk subsist on unclean foods, as they have not the means to husband beef and lamb, or to catch the desirable fish of the sea......Forget those silly rules. Their population is growing, even if they have a short life expectancy. They live long enough to procreate.

This was all done to enlarge the Christian Empire and increase the tithing population. God's Law and salvation had nothing to do with it.

Well, when the Priest stepped out later and ate of the burned flesh, it kept his belly full.

But today, the Priest would rather have a pocket full of cash money and he will purchase his own meals.

Yep. How many dont eat shrimp, oysters, catfish and never leave their tent on a Saturday. How did one go to church on Sat?

The OT was to prove to the Israelites how impossible to live by the law and lend them to accepting the savior who loved all (yes, even Hitler).
Like 613 laws in the OT which told of the future so those with an open mind could look and see it was right when it told of Israel being reconstituted three times and its punishments being as a warning to other nations (and folks) not to be so stiff necked or they to would face the sword, as our nation is now. To see the truth in the Word, for Israel to not make treaties as its enemies would gather to drive them into the sea.

When i bring the sword against a land and their nightwatchman tells of the coming ass kickin and blows the trumpet and warns them then when they dont listen and the sword comes and takes their life their blood will be on their own head. If the watchmen dont raise the warning the blood is on his own head.


When i say to the wicked that they will die and you dont warn them i will hold you accountable for their death. If you warn them and they dont take heed, their blood will be on their head.