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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,263 |
No luck with bargain boots, YMMV
I agree Quality work boots are plenty good but don't trust off brands. All it takes is having to hike down a steep and loose ridge in the dark with your boot sole flapping to convince you not to get a questionable boot again. Have had to resort to duct tape or wearing the back up pac boots to finish a hunt before. One trip the back up pac boots gave out too, ozone had gotten to them since I so rarely hunt in snow anymore.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,406 |
In my opinion, if you are going to be a serious big game hunter you need a decent spotter and a decent rangefinder. That's why I initially said "invest". Buy once, cry once. If you don't need it, you eventually will. Get used to carrying the extra weight.
My last elk trip was 40+ miles, starting from the boat (sea level), up to over 3k feet, and every place in between. In what has been called the toughest elk hunt in NA by the RMEF according to some friends. 7 days, 60lbs on my back. Hope to do it again next year.
My biggest regret was not bringing my spotter. Weight be damned.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,266
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,266 |
[quote=Vek]Not if you can do math./quote]
Your method is one I used for a couple decades. It sounds good in theory but in practice, under field conditions and lighting at range, it's not very fast or effective. Too many variables.
Much simpler to laser, dial or pick a dot, and shoot.
BTDT.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 159
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 159 |
I am in the processes of acquiring gear for an Elk hunt that I am planning for my Father and I next year (our first Elk hunt and first ever hunt "out west"). With Black Friday just around the corner I am making a list of things to watch for. I will list the optics related gear that we currently have and look forward to hearing suggestions on what you think we should take a look at. We are planning to get OTC CO Rifle tags. Probably planning to hunt around the Durango/Pagosa Springs area just for proximity to OK although I am not married to that idea.
Rifles being used:
Dad: Remington 700 chambered in .270
Me: Wby Vanguard S2 chambered in .308
Scopes:
Dad: Just has a cheap bushnell 3x9 scope on his.
Me: It is currently wearing a Sightron SII 4.5-14X42. I also own a Sightron S1 3x9. I could put the 3x9 on my rifle since the 308 is not as efficient at longer ranges and put the SII on dad's???
Wouldn't mind getting some "better glass" if there was great value to be had on Black Friday. Reading some of the other posts it looks like maybe I should take a close look at the SWFA SS 6X. The Sightrons are the best glass I have ever owned so I don't know if I am missing anything. If the Sightrons are close enough I would rather use these funds on not optic related gear that we need.
Binos:
Dad: Cheap Walmart variety
Me: I just purchased the Tract Toric 8x32's so we should be set there. Unless we both need a good set of Binos.
Spotting Scope: We have nothing and so if it is a must have I am in the market.
Rangfinder: This is also on the list. I currently have a Simmons but it is slow and only good out to about 300 yards or so and doesnt account for elevation. I am looking for an excuse to hand this down to my son and get either the Sig Kilo or the Vortex Ranger
Update after doing a little shopping the last couple of weeks and on Black Friday Scope Update: Dad: Putting the Sightron SII 4.5-14X42 on his 270 Me: Got a great deal on an open but never mounted Bushnell Elite LRHS 3-12X44 here on the fire Spotting Scope Update: Picked up a used Leupold GR12-40X60 here on the fire Rangefinder Update: Picked up a Sig Kilo 2000 on a decent Black Friday deal Gear: utilized the Kuiu 30% off to pick up a fair amount of layering gear. Also picked up some First Lite base layers with their Black Friday deal. All my current gear is cotton or polyester. Next up: Boots Day pack THIS IS SOME EXPENSIVE $#!* but I'm hoping I don't have to make many of these purchases again for a very long while.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
I buy boots from Big 5 and Walmart. They last a few years. I break them in by wearing them around the house or going to town a lot before hunting season. Works like a champ. I get only water proof. If they are for late hunting I get the most thinsulate I can find.
Do you wake up in the morning and just think I'm not sure if I gave any [bleep] advice yesterday, better double down today. By the best boots that fit you well. They will not say Danner on the side of them, they will be waterproof, and have a lot of support.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
Next up:
Boots
Day pack
THIS IS SOME EXPENSIVE $#!* but I'm hoping I don't have to make many of these purchases again for a very long while.
Cabelas Mendls, Lowas, Scarpas, Kannetraks, Asolos, and Crispis are all good boots for mountain hunting..
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,102
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,102 |
Can't take a $400 scope on a $10,000 trip. Yes you can.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 590
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 590 |
Try to find a deal on better binos for your Dad.
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NAHC Life Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,711
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Get a pair of 6x30 leupold yosemite and loan them to your dad. They won't play second fiddle to much that's under $300 or more.
Boots: I've played the heavy norwegian welt game and the lightweight scarpa charmoz and la sportiva evo game - elk to me means wet or snow, so leather all the way. Don't get oversold on a rubber rand - they are good at separating from leather and getting slit by rocks. Roughout leather treated with pure beeswax won't get cut by rock. If you anticipate any quantity of snow, get gaiters. This year I used the midweight Alicos with hairdryer-applied beeswax and they worked well.
Don't go out of your way to make your rifle and kit heavy. So far with your scope choice you've probably given up half a pound to a leupold 4x. Same with the straight spotter - if you had angled you could get away with a shorter, lighter tripod.
I could buy whatever I want for a pack. I went on this year's elk hunt with a ~20 year old Dana Designs "Alpine", purchased on craigslist for $50. You can buy lighter, but few will carry weight as well as this 6.5lb Dana. If you want a true "daypack", then there are lower capacity options with good suspensions for packing meat, but $$$$.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
Boots: I've played the heavy norwegian welt game and the lightweight scarpa charmoz and la sportiva evo game - elk to me means wet or snow, so leather all the way. Don't get oversold on a rubber rand - they are good at separating from leather and getting slit by rocks. Roughout leather treated with pure beeswax won't get cut by rock. If you anticipate any quantity of snow, get gaiters. This year I used the midweight Alicos with hairdryer-applied beeswax and they worked well.
I have hunted and guided with boots that have Rands for the last 10 years, I get on average about 3-5 years a set of boots. By the time the ran gives up the ghost, the boots are already broke down. I won't buy a set of boots without it now. The non rand boots have a connection point from the boot to the sole that is one of the first places to fail imho on many boots.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,711
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
Norwegian welt doesn't fail at the sole.
Boots: I've played the heavy norwegian welt game and the lightweight scarpa charmoz and la sportiva evo game - elk to me means wet or snow, so leather all the way. Don't get oversold on a rubber rand - they are good at separating from leather and getting slit by rocks. Roughout leather treated with pure beeswax won't get cut by rock. If you anticipate any quantity of snow, get gaiters. This year I used the midweight Alicos with hairdryer-applied beeswax and they worked well.
I have hunted and guided with boots that have Rands for the last 10 years, I get on average about 3-5 years a set of boots. By the time the ran gives up the ghost, the boots are already broke down. I won't buy a set of boots without it now. The non rand boots have a connection point from the boot to the sole that is one of the first places to fail imho on many boots.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,955
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,955 |
You an reliably calculate range on game animals, no matter the light or terrain, out to 400 yards?
You're more than lucky, you're superhuman... All those elk hunting years before rangefinders, how did we get along without them for so long? One thing that helped a lot was going to flatter shooting 300 mags with a 300 yd zero. 3" high at 100 and 8" low at 400, what's the big deal about that? Superhuman, I think not, very practical for anyone. A 270/130 will do the same thing. I've lived and hunted out west all my life. If I am not dialing, I leave it at home. I use the duplex on my Leupold's. Wide windy west? Not sure what the wind has to do with it? A couple observations I've made over the years: All those 400 yards shots without rangefinders have become more like 250 just like an actual scale has turned all those 250+lb deer into 175lb deer. Can't think of any reason not to have a rangefinder.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,650
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,650 |
Sooner- What do you mean by "day pack"? Reason I ask is I'm of the opinion, because I'm lazy, that my "day pack" is the same one I pack out critters with. I don't want to have to make an extra trip back to camp/truck just for a pack. Lots of good suggestions in the Backpack Forum on packs, but if I were in the market I'd be looking at pack from the following companies: Kifaru, Stone Glacier, Seeksoutside, and Mystery Ranch.
For me my spending priorities are boots, bino's, backpack and in that order.
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
Exon, stone glacier, and kifaru should all be on your list then.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 285
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 285 |
My current elk rifle has a 3.5-10x44 Conquest (9.3x74R). My other elk rifle has a 3-15x42 HD5 Zeiss. Both scopes work great for nearly any elk hunting in the Rockies!
CDR3
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,160
Campfire Savant
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Campfire Savant
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 151,160 |
I like the Leupold TBR range finders and the Leupold CDS scopes. They work!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,638
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,638 |
You an reliably calculate range on game animals, no matter the light or terrain, out to 400 yards?
You're more than lucky, you're superhuman... All those elk hunting years before rangefinders, how did we get along without them for so long? One thing that helped a lot was going to flatter shooting 300 mags with a 300 yd zero. 3" high at 100 and 8" low at 400, what's the big deal about that? Superhuman, I think not, very practical for anyone. A 270/130 will do the same thing.
I've lived and hunted out west all my life.If I am not dialing, I leave it at home. I use the duplex on my Leupold's. Wide windy west? Not sure what the wind has to do with it? For a first-time elk hunter from flat land, it's downright laughable to suggest there is no need for a rangefinder.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,042
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,042 |
Been off the site for a few weeks, but I have been that first time CO elk hunter and I think your original post is pointing in all the right directions.
I'd leave your Sightron on your rifle and add the other to your Dad's. You'll know a whole lot more after you've been there, but I like your setup on your .308 and the 3-9 S1 will be great on your dad's .270. I have a 6x SWFA and unless you'll be dialing I wouldn't until after you hunt there once.
6x Yosemites are a great value, light and easy to carry for your dad. Lots of choices with binoculars. Don't need to go crazy to get a good deal.
I had some decent but inadequate Tasco 10x50's my first time to CO and no rangefinder. I upgraded my bino's immediately and got a rangefinder. My current rangefinder is a Bushnell Elite ARC 1500 I got off ebay for less than $200 as an open box deal. I do think the Sig at $400 is the deal of the year.
No need for a spotting scope most of the time. That said, I like glassing and have carried a Bushnell Elite 15-40x60 and a Leupold 20x60 of similar small size because they actually are small enough to carry and have decent optics.
Have a great time! Part of the fun is in the planning. You really can make a great plan from topo maps and asking questions.
Last edited by 338WIN; 12/13/16.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,720
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,720 |
Look for used Swarovski or similar on this site and Blaserbuds.
There is a Kahles 4-12x50 and the seller is a reputable guy, I spoke to him several times.
Also a Swarovski Z 3 may work, ask the guys that hunted where you are considering.
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,485
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,485 |
Sounds like you are close to ready. Those rifle scopes and your range finder will be fine as long as you want. I agree that a rangefinder is a necessity if you are planning to shoot beyond 250 yards or across canyons at all. You have started off with some high end clothing that is nice to have but way lower on the priority list than good boots an accurate rifle and great binoculars.
I'm partial to the Eberlestock x2 as a daypack that can haul a first load of meat out. This year I switched to a Wilderness Specialties frame and Bighorn bag and it worked fine as a hunting pack and was terrific as a meat hauler the 100lbs+ didn't feel bad but 2.5 miles later I was happy to put it down. Elk hunting tests your gear, budget, and planning as you try and improve every year.
Get your dad some new binos and you will be good from an optics perspective.
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