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Amazing. My college aged son and I had this EXACT conversation tonight. He and his roommates who are not Christians had watched the episode where it said he’d proclaimed faith & been baptized. My son’s roomies were astounded that that was possible.
Samuel explained it the same way I would.
To me what’s most amazing isn’t that Dahlmer might have been saved but that ANYONE is. According to our Lord, a man who looks at a woman in lust commits adultery; one who calls another “blockhead” (idiot, fool, etc) commits murder.
We’re all little Dahlmers running around when compared to the absolutely perfect holiness demanded by God. That’s me, my son, everyone but Jesus Himself.
That’s unbelievable.
I can’t know Dahlmer’s heart and wouldn’t claim to have any insight. A great theologian said from his deathbed, “grateful for the active obedience of Christ; no hope without it”. That is, Christ fulfilled God’s law perfectly on my behalf. Without that righteousness I’d be doomed to damnation. Without a grace that offers hope for Dahlmer I am without hope. dahlmer killed and ate people like slaughter cows and I am supposed to believe he and people who fornicates are supposed to be in the same hell.? Or rather he could have a chance at heaven while people with petty theft are gonna go to hell? No a chance.
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Amazing. My college aged son and I had this EXACT conversation tonight. He and his roommates who are not Christians had watched the episode where it said he’d proclaimed faith & been baptized. My son’s roomies were astounded that that was possible.
Samuel explained it the same way I would.
To me what’s most amazing isn’t that Dahlmer might have been saved but that ANYONE is. According to our Lord, a man who looks at a woman in lust commits adultery; one who calls another “blockhead” (idiot, fool, etc) commits murder.
We’re all little Dahlmers running around when compared to the absolutely perfect holiness demanded by God. That’s me, my son, everyone but Jesus Himself.
That’s unbelievable.
I can’t know Dahlmer’s heart and wouldn’t claim to have any insight. A great theologian said from his deathbed, “grateful for the active obedience of Christ; no hope without it”. That is, Christ fulfilled God’s law perfectly on my behalf. Without that righteousness I’d be doomed to damnation. Without a grace that offers hope for Dahlmer I am without hope. dahlmer killed and ate people like slaughter cows and I am supposed to believe he and people who fornicates are supposed to be in the same hell.? Or rather he could have a chance at heaven while people with petty theft are gonna go to hell? No a chance. People are in danger of being cutoff from God because they have not entered into a saving relationship with God. There is no “ledger system” …. A ledger system meaning: Keeping track of sins and good deeds and then a decision on whether or not a person is “good enough” to go to heaven. This idea of ledger system is ingrained in our culture and is simply a falsehood…. A lie…. Certainly not biblical. It is critical that one have a relationship with Jesus….. forgiven, covered by the blood, indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Also, simply mouthing the “sinners prayer” doesn’t affect anything. Honest seekers will find.
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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There's no performance that makes the cut.
Kent I believe that, but I don’t believe Hastings does. if I understand him properly his view is one of being obedient as a means of pleasing God to gain salvation. I just wanna try to figure out what that looks like in his thinking.
Last edited by IZH27; 10/10/22.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Hastings,
Within Unitarian thought how do you know that you’re performing well enough to make the cut? God's ambassador Jesus said "Why do you call me good? No one is good but One. That is God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments". Matthew 19:17 I am not good, but I'm working on it.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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I see in the rich young ruler a man who was very sad and disheartened when it was made clear to him by Jesus Himself that “keeping all of the commandments since my birth” (works) wasn’t going to earn him salvation. The position of works based salvation diminishes God’s grace that He extended to us, and it diminishes what Jesus did on the cross for us. God’s grace doesn’t need any help from us.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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I wake up every day an' pray I witness the four horsemen.
I look around and I see the perversion, self righteousness, evil, and selfishness in this world.
The miracle I wait for is to witness the end of days. Now, whether dead or alive, I will witness the end of times.
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Salvation is God's prerogative, something of the spirit and not of this world. Jesus said for us not judge, referring to another's salvation. We are not to curse, that means seriously call for the damnation of another, has nothing to do with potty words.
We definitely can worldly judge someone for worldly actions, including killing them.
God gave us freewill, as individuals and mankind in total... he will not save us from each other here. There is no worldly/physical salvation. We can't 'do' anything on this world, works, to gain spiritual salvation, and no matter how much we want it for those we feel are evil, nothing worldly we can do that absolutely denies it.
Yes, Hitler could be with God, spiritually.
Kent Our genetic makeup and the life circumstances we are born into are not a matter of free will. A beggar living in Calcutta, crippled by his handlers to increase sympathy value and revinue, no education, no prospects and no hope of a better life was not a matter of free will or choice. Hitler, if born in Australia in this day and age would have no hope of realizing his dreams of dictatorship and conquest, and would likely eke out a living as second rate artist.... But…..DBT, living today……has access to the gospel of Christ and makes his decision to reject it. Seems like you would then be “without excuse.” Rather than a decision, it is a lack of conviction based on an understanding of history, the nature of faith, how the gospels were put togethet, their flaws and contradictions, etcetera. Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.....and of course, I would not be me. So, you are clearly without excuse and a simple denial that “God, you failed to convince me” will not provide you with a pass. Just so you know….. Seek…..Find. Don’t Seek, Don’t Find….. Please explain, a "pass" to where and for what purpose?
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
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Hastings,
Within Unitarian thought how do you know that you’re performing well enough to make the cut? God's ambassador Jesus said "Why do you call me good? No one is good but One. That is God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments". Matthew 19:17 I am not good, but I'm working on it. no offense, but I really don’t understand how that answers the question. Let me ask it from a different angle. In the fifth chapter of first John the apostle says I write these things to you little children so that you may know that you have eternal life. within Unitarianism is there a teaching that one knows that they have eternal life or are you just hoping and wishing that happens?
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Told the folks in the Sunday morning Bible study at my church about David a couple weeks back. Big hero, being perfect in God’s sight and all. Told them he was an adulterer and a murderer, which left me room to move, and that if he showed up at church today, he would be the kind of guy they wished wasn’t there.
Much like the Pharisees in their day, a lot of folks have this preset vision of what makes one a child of God, and most of them are wrong about it. I simply worry about myself, Lord knows there is plenty there to work on.
Last edited by OldGrayWolf; 10/10/22.
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If someone is a total immoral piece of crap, why are believers willing to give them the thumbs up in case their god may actually grant them access to heaven for other reasons? That sounds like a god without morals, and should know better. Pedophile priests probably rely on this.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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You don't believe in God. Why would you care?
Romans 5:1
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Amazing. My college aged son and I had this EXACT conversation tonight. He and his roommates who are not Christians had watched the episode where it said he’d proclaimed faith & been baptized. My son’s roomies were astounded that that was possible.
Samuel explained it the same way I would.
To me what’s most amazing isn’t that Dahlmer might have been saved but that ANYONE is. According to our Lord, a man who looks at a woman in lust commits adultery; one who calls another “blockhead” (idiot, fool, etc) commits murder.
We’re all little Dahlmers running around when compared to the absolutely perfect holiness demanded by God. That’s me, my son, everyone but Jesus Himself.
That’s unbelievable.
I can’t know Dahlmer’s heart and wouldn’t claim to have any insight. A great theologian said from his deathbed, “grateful for the active obedience of Christ; no hope without it”. That is, Christ fulfilled God’s law perfectly on my behalf. Without that righteousness I’d be doomed to damnation. Without a grace that offers hope for Dahlmer I am without hope. dahlmer killed and ate people like slaughter cows and I am supposed to believe he and people who fornicates are supposed to be in the same hell.? Or rather he could have a chance at heaven while people with petty theft are gonna go to hell? No a chance. Believe what you want but the God of scripture is no respecter of men.
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You don't believe in God. Why would you care? Because I share the planet with people who think immoral actions can be excused. Can get away with anything with that mindset.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Paul was killing Christians, before writing half of the New Testament.
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If you read Romans you'll see how authorities are set up by God. He said if you do good you have nothing to fear. If you do bad the authorities are God's avengers on evil, and they don't bear the sword in vain. Capital punishment is plain to see in Romans, but men go about things their own way.
Romans 5:1
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Every atheist deep down knows God exists. You know, we know…God has manifested Himself to all. Just look at a sunrise, or a sunset, or a newborn baby…You know, Mauserwhatever, you will eventually be accountable to God. Eventually, your knee will bow and your tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, but then it’s too late…This is every man’s fear of death, as death means encountering God. You are born with the knowledge of God, but keep resisting. You have dug your Satanic heels in… God has manifested Himself to ALL. You have chosen to reject God. So why do you keep re-appearing on these threads? Why don’t you go on and live your life for Satan and leave believers of Jesus Christ alone?
I feel for you…punishment is eternal…tit for tat, tit for tat….why your persistent interest in the God threads? The unbelievers will be a given an immortal body for their eternal punishment..lWhy aren’t you off partying with the demons from hell? Why do you keep re-appearing here, on a thread for believers of Jesus Christ?!?!?? Why the persistent attempt to suppress the truth?
The best way to know if someone is Satanic is his attitude toward Christians and our precious Jesus Christ…you are satanic, Mauserman and your buddy…may God put a hook in your jaw and pull you down.
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Salvation is God's prerogative, something of the spirit and not of this world. Jesus said for us not judge, referring to another's salvation. We are not to curse, that means seriously call for the damnation of another, has nothing to do with potty words.
We definitely can worldly judge someone for worldly actions, including killing them.
God gave us freewill, as individuals and mankind in total... he will not save us from each other here. There is no worldly/physical salvation. We can't 'do' anything on this world, works, to gain spiritual salvation, and no matter how much we want it for those we feel are evil, nothing worldly we can do that absolutely denies it.
Yes, Hitler could be with God, spiritually.
Kent Our genetic makeup and the life circumstances we are born into are not a matter of free will. A beggar living in Calcutta, crippled by his handlers to increase sympathy value and revinue, no education, no prospects and no hope of a better life was not a matter of free will or choice. Hitler, if born in Australia in this day and age would have no hope of realizing his dreams of dictatorship and conquest, and would likely eke out a living as second rate artist.... But…..DBT, living today……has access to the gospel of Christ and makes his decision to reject it. Seems like you would then be “without excuse.” Rather than a decision, it is a lack of conviction based on an understanding of history, the nature of faith, how the gospels were put togethet, their flaws and contradictions, etcetera. Had I been born before the age of science and reason, a more superstitious age, I'd likely to be praying in the chapel with the rest of the village population.....and of course, I would not be me. So, you are clearly without excuse and a simple denial that “God, you failed to convince me” will not provide you with a pass. Just so you know….. Seek…..Find. Don’t Seek, Don’t Find….. Please explain, a "pass" to where and for what purpose? Sure…. Good question…. Sorry, but it is a bit lengthy…. God has said that each individual will come under the judgment of a righteous and Holy God. You and I have both sinned. An all knowing and perfect God will view my life…. and yours. Were He to look at only my deeds and look deep into my earthly character, He would quite correctly judge me to be sinner…. One who has disobeyed and frankly gave my Creator short shrift. God could…..figuratively…. Say to TF…. Your sin is like a black volleyball. (He may look at someone else’s life and tell them that their life has been filled with misbehavior, lying, pride and other “crimes.” He might tell that person that He sees the summation of their life as a black basketball. Perhaps He judges another who feels he has led a good life and has been a model citizen….God may say, ok, Your life is summed up as a black cue ball.) But back to TF…..then….figuratively…. God would ask Jesus if he knew me. Jesus would say, “Yes, TF has been born of the Spirit, he has asked for forgiveness for all of his sins and is a member of Body of Christ…. He has been cleansed by my death on the cross and by my blood. He is one of our children. Let TF enter in. Now let’s look at this third man…. Black cue ball. He may say to God….”Well, I’m not as bad as a murderer and in fact, I have done more good than TF.” “Also, God, I never really knew about your Son Jesus….I mean that well yes, I heard of Him but I never saw the need and also, you never made it clear to me and you didn’t convince me of the need for a Savior and since you failed to convince me….. can I get a pass or some sort of excuse for my lifetime of rejecting Jesus and my can I avoid judgment?” God may turn….again, figuratively…. And ask Jesus….”Do you know this man?” Jesus will say….”Depart, I never knew you.” The man may still protest and perhaps God would “roll the tape” of this man’s life and show him dozens or hundreds or even thousands times that God has shown him the truth about himself and shown him the truth about Jesus….. only to see the man reject God time and time again. God is in effect showing the man that he has rejected Jesus and the gift. Now, here is a most interesting aspect….. This is really simple….If man we’re to say “Well, I don’t know about this God business, but I am going to seek an answer….. a simple prayer like “God, if you are really out there, pls make yourself known to me.” Really good start. Anyway, that’s enough for now…. 2 Chronicles 15:2b. “The Lord is with you when you are with him. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will forsake you.” Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”
The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”
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I see in the rich young ruler a man who was very sad and disheartened when it was made clear to him by Jesus Himself that “keeping all of the commandments since my birth” (works) wasn’t going to earn him salvation. The position of works based salvation diminishes God’s grace that He extended to us, and it diminishes what Jesus did on the cross for us. God’s grace doesn’t need any help from us. The point of that passage goes with the point you and I’ve agreed upon here on this thread. The question our Lord responds with isn’t His way of affirming the claim made by the rich young ruler. It’s His way of showing that the man worshipped mammon over God; a violation of the first commandment. Our Lord is the One and only perfect keeper of the Law; it was this perfect keeping of the law that gave Him righteousness sufficient to cover the sins of the world. The whole Old Testament was written to convince God’s people that no one but God Himself could keep the law. This is what the Pharisees overlooked.
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Every atheist deep down knows God exists. Wrong. Even theists don't know a god exists. Faith is hope for things unseen.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Every atheist deep down knows God exists. Wrong. Even theists don't know a god exists. Faith is hope for things unseen. Ah, come on, Mauser, you know God exists. Why are you BS-ing us, Mauser, you know God exists. You have chosen to live in the darkness and Unrighteousness. Your free will and your choice… So you have made your choice. You have made your bed. Lie in it, woo hoo, be happy. What is it to you if we have chosen to follow Jesus as our Savior and Lord? You have rejected Jesus. Why are you so obsessed in what Christians believe? What is your obsession all about? Are you really that evil? You have made your bed. Wallow in it, and leave Christians alone. What is your problem? Why can’t you answer a simple question: What is your obsession with those who believe in and follow Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior by faith? You have faith in your atheism…Tit for tat. Go be an atheist and have a happy life…
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