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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 284
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Campfire Member
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The deer that I have heard about, according to other hunters, being immune to slugs and bullets have been the ones where the slug or bullet bounced off the deer and hit a tree, or the bullet went through them and the wound healed instantly, etc...and on and on. Good shot placement, and fair tracking skills when needed have always worked for me. I also hunt in Ohio with slugs and PA with a rifle and don't seem to have a problem dropping them. I get some guff every now and then about using a 308 Win, usually from the big gun guys and my slugs for the shotgun are the 2 3/4 inch version. Am I doing something wrong!
cur dog
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Mr. shaman:
When I was a kid in Saskatchewan it was pretty common knowledge that one couldn�t kill a deer with a .30-30. Being the obstinate sort, I bought one and shot 2 deer, but since I�d moved to BC by then, maybe they were right for those �big Saskatchewan deer�.
When I moved out here I fell in with a .270 crowd who were merciless toward me and my use of .308�s and .30-06�s. They were OK, with .30 Magnums, but anything less would not reliably kill deer as the bullets weren�t going fast enough.
As I�d been witness to a number of .22 rimfire bullets killing deer, albeit for euthanizing deer hit by vehicles, I always felt their opinions were somewhat biased.
Happy New Year to you all!
Dwayne
The most important stuff in life isn't "stuff"
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Shaman,
I have first hand knowledge that the .223 will kill deer out here in west Texas! So will the .243, the .270 AND I am sorry to say, the deer out here will still be dead if shot in the right place with a 30-30.
As a side note, I have a father-in-law who tells a story of a West Virgina 8pt who he hit in the shoulder with a 20 gauge slug at 45 yards-knocked the deer down, deer got up and ran off...no blood, no hair and he recovered the slug-no signs of penetration on the bullet. He says later that particular ammo was re-called due to failure to perform, but MAYBE IT WAS THE DEER!!!
Hope this helps
Dave
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Are you familiar with the "holes in the bucket" theory? You don't worry about patching holes up the sides until you have the ones on the bottom fixed. If I could just get our hunters to hit what they aimed at, I would worry more about bullets and calibers!
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 857
Campfire Regular
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Deer are funny creatures, you can shoot 10 in a row with the same gun and the reaction will vary wildly. Remarkably resilient I would say. I've had enough less than desirable situations with proper cartridges. I'm not trying to see how little I can get away with, I want an ending as quickly as possible, everytime, without fail. Hurling a popcorn kernel at Mach 3+ towards a 200+ pound game animal and expecting consistent results time and time again just sounds to much like gambling to me. I'm sure stories abound about success with said popcorn...but I'm not interested.
Thank God for Mississippi!
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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Has anyone heard a good explanation on why deer get immune to cartridges? Natural selection. It's quite simple really. The deer that are susceptible to a cartridge are killed. The ones that are immune survive the shooting to breed another day. Only the strong survive. -
Our God reigns.
Harrumph!!!
I often use quick reply. My posts are not directed toward any specific person unless I mention them by name.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
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Campfire Member
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The only sure cure for "deer cartridge immunity"is to load up $1.00-$2.00 each bullets in whatever caliber @ 3500 fps.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 104
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Campfire Member
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BTW,
You should also limit your shots to no less than 600 yards in case this suddenly starts to fail.
You might need the head start if the deer decides to retaliate:)
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,065
Campfire Outfitter
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When I was 14 years old (35 years ago) I killed a deer with a 22LR. I would not try that stunt today even on a bet. In these modern times it takes at least one of the WSMs ,bare minimum ,to kill these little deer around here.
Mike
Always talk to the old guys , they know stuff.
Jerry Miculek
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Campfire Member
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In Alberta our deer are so large that oufitters tell clients dont show up with less than a 30cal magnum, shooting 180gr. Swift A Frames.
Another is the 30/30 is so impotent that you can catch the bullets in a ball glove at 300yards. (batter up)
Or my favourite.
I shot my deer right in the lungs with my 270 and he ran away.
So I then bought a 7em em and still couldn't kill my deer, So now my 338 will simply knock em flat.
Usually followed by...... what do you mean go to the range they said it was bore sighted.
Just remember.
You cant have SLAUGHTER,
without LAUGHTER
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,465
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The .41RemMag will absolutely not kill ANYTHING, just ask the shooters who use .44RemMag and larger handguns. I was told when I ordered the first S&W 657 to come into NC that it would be useless as a hunting gun. After 13 years of KILLING STUFF with that caliber I have finally figured out why they all died. They all had heart attacks. It was from surprise at the sheer audacity of my use of a .41RemMag to actually try to kill it. The strange thing is that the heart attack phenomenon is not limited to NC it also happens in TX, SC, GA, AL, OR, MN, and TN. BTY this phenomenon isn�t limited to whitetail deer. It happens to piggies, goats, sheep and feral cattle, even happened to a bison. Go figure!! 
Handgun Hunter no more. STILL LOVE THOSE .41's
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
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I used to be fortunate enough to get invited to hunt a South Texas ranch that was owned by an old Beeville family. One of the owners was a fellow graduate student and we remained friends. Except for my friend, the family was convinced that belted magnums were needed for adequate performance on South Texas deer, preferably Weatherby magnums.
My friend hunted with a classic Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 7x57, and was regarded as being desperately under-armed. They tolerated the .30-06 that I was shooting at the time, but would have been more comfortable if I had brought a belted magnum of some persuasion. During the time that I hunted there, my friend and I never shot a deer more than once nor did we lose any....
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Campfire Regular
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Shaman,
Deer reaction to any/all hunting implements is generally a product of hunters who frequent "Mahogany Ridge", where they swap lies cleverly disguised as the truth! The first beneficiary of such "truth-telling" is the purveyer of 'old Stump Blower" and similar serums...Next is the gun dealer, happy to oblige the need for more potent deer medicine. The deer? They just continue to duck and dodge whatever is thrown at them. Not surprisingly, the deer have become expert at hiding injuries suffered from hunting guns. Such encourages the mighty hunter to upgrade his equipment, ala "More Power!" In so doing, he subjects himself to greater and greater recoil...begins to flinch at every shot...and consequently misses a lot. Next time you are in the woods and hear a shot, particularly a loud, booming shot, listen carefully: Most surely you will hear one or more deer exclaim, "Got another one!"
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
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shaman, it must be farther south of the MD line than we are here. I don't know of any .22 centerfire use for the armored deer but the .243 is quite common. Here in WV any centerfire cartridge is legal for deer hunting with a rifle. We do use saboted projectiles with the tungsten "dart" like the Abrams tanks do.  Actually I'm a cheap bastid and use Rem Core-Lokts in my .243, 7-08, and have used them in my '06 (now 165gr Hornady flat base for a change). Crawfish, I have a .44 mag but I am a .41 believer. I have been going to therapy.  
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,345
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
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Shaman,
Deer reaction to any/all hunting implements is generally a product of hunters who frequent "Mahogany Ridge", where they swap lies cleverly disguised as the truth! The first beneficiary of such "truth-telling" is the purveyer of 'old Stump Blower" and similar serums...Next is the gun dealer, happy to oblige the need for more potent deer medicine. The deer? They just continue to duck and dodge whatever is thrown at them. Not surprisingly, the deer have become expert at hiding injuries suffered from hunting guns. Such encourages the mighty hunter to upgrade his equipment, ala "More Power!" In so doing, he subjects himself to greater and greater recoil...begins to flinch at every shot...and consequently misses a lot. Next time you are in the woods and hear a shot, particularly a loud, booming shot, listen carefully: Most surely you will hear one or more deer exclaim, "Got another one!" Do you think that might have something to do with it? How ingenious can these deer really be? The next thing some one will be telling me is that bucks use their antlers to push the does out in front to take a bullet for them. . . uh. . . never mind. somebody's already told me that. I don't know about you guys, but I'm thinking now of wearing aluminum foil under my orange hat. These deer are so smart, they may be able to read our thoughts. . . uh, . . . never mind. I've heard that one too. Jeezle Petes! Bullet-proof, mind-reading, devil deer. Which counties did you say they were in now?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,173 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,173 Likes: 18 |
Here in Montana the deer are apparently both getting tougher and smaller. When I started hunting in the 1960's a .30-30 was OK, but real deer cartridges started with the .243 (for some reason considered a lot more powerful back then, shortly after it first appeared) and a lot of guys were trading off their inadequate old .270's and .30-06's for 7mm Remington Magnums.
Now the used rifle section of any gun store is filled with .243's and 7mm Remington Magnums the guys traded in for short mags. This is because they were told that the the short mags are a lot more accurate, and everybody knows that for hunting deer today you need all the accuracy you can get. Three shots in 1/2" at 100 yards is just barely acceptable.
I guess this is just evolution. Apparently all the big, soft deer were killed off in the 1960's by .243's and Big Sevens, allowing only the really tough little bastards to breed.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,345
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
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Okay, I'm copying this into the database:
All counties of Montana, 30-30, 243 Win, 270 Win, 30-06 and 7MM REM MAG are no longer effective on deer-- short mags are the answer -- per MD. Time/Date, etc. Done.
Got it! Thanks for contributing. Your stature here and elsewhere will most assuredly help get this project off the ground. This is the sort of data we really need. I was beginning to think my quest was going to degenerate into yet another meaningless discussion.
So you ascribe to the "survival of the fittest" theory as the mechanism of immunity as opposed to the "increased deer intelligence" theory or the "repeated exposure" theory? Cool. I'm still not really sure myself. Do you see this as an upward spiral? I mean, could we all be shooting 416 Rigby by 2050?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032 |
...
So you ascribe to the "survival of the fittest" theory as the mechanism of immunity as opposed to the "increased deer intelligence" theory or the "repeated exposure" theory? Cool. I'm still not really sure myself. Do you see this as an upward spiral? I mean, could we all be shooting 416 Rigby by 2050? Think on it man, to what do you attribute the recent sub rosa interest in the 50 BMG among the deer hunting crowd?
Quando Omni Moritati
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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My kids have had excellent success with the 250-3000 and 100 gr pills at 2650. that's about the minimum for me. still, I have total confidence in my 220 swift (but I have not actually killed anyting with it yet). The 220 Swift kills them dead, my bud Joe snipes them with a Ruger Target Gray across a huge field, IIRC he is using premium bullets but cannot remember the make now. He got two does this year with it.
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Shaman, this is slightly off topic, but on another website I frequent there was a thread once about armadillos moving into the northern part of the Georgia, and people were posting about shooting them. One person warned all the others to be careful of ricochets if they shot armadillos, he had seen a .44 magnum glance off the shell of one in Florida years ago!
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