Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Does free choice exist in heaven?

Well, in Heaven, I will be perfect, though on Earth I am not except for my saved soul.

In Heaven, I will be so perfect, that making a wrong choice will be impossible, because, "We shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is." 1John 3

In Heaven, in a perfect state, with a perfect mind, and a perfect knowledge of good, and perfect discernment to choose the good, and FAR from every evil thought or deed, I believe that you will have a choice to FREELY choose the right path every time.

On Earth, in this corruptible temple of clay, if given a choice, more often than not, I choose improperly.

Up there, I'll WANT to choose right every time, and with perfect knowlege, wisdom, discernment, understanding, I WILL make a WILLING, FREE choice to go the right way.

Still a free choice -- but it'll be a choice to do the right thing every time.

All joking aside, Hell is not a joking matter. Given the free choice, and everyone is, Heaven is the only choice to make, based on the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay for your sins.

Amen, and amen!

That's right. And the woman comes second, or sometimes not at all!

You know, if it's only mythological, don't let it bug you.

OTOH, what if it's more than myth?

And for the record, as Ken said way earlier, Adam was the bad guy, not Eve. She was deceived. He walked in knowing what he was doing. Sin entered the world by one MAN, not by the woman.

Buddhism teaches that "heaven" is right here, right now, and that you are a necessary part of it because you are part of the whole.

To see this is to become enlightened.

However, upon your death you cease to be an individual, and rejoin the collective "is". Buddha was very clear that when he died, he as an individual would be gone.

I can roll with that. I don't believe in God, heaven, hell, etc. I do believe that I am part of something heartbreakingly gorgeous, and that someday I get to stop floundering around as an individual, and go back there.

This viewpoint is entirely consistant with the reality all around us, and I like that about it too. The universe "is"... I am part if it, made from it and vice versa, and I get to go back there someday- just not as an individual "soul".

Just my way of thunkin' on the subject.

I dig the Eastern philosophy, although I'm more of an apathetic agnostic on the whole "faith" thing.

"Buddhism teaches that "heaven" is right here, right now, and that you are a necessary part of it because you are part of the whole. "

Does it also teach that "hell" is right here, right now...also? Reality is what we make of it.

I don't believe that there's a "negative" form of enlightment- ie "hell".

I think a Buddhist would say that whatever hell a person might experience on earth is due to a lack of enlightment. Not some sort if evil god or whatever.

To be clear, I'm no Buddhist. It's just a very clean philosophy that is logically consistant, which I appreciate.

And mine as well Jeff...well stated in brief!

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Okay moral life and all that. I get it.

But my question was based on the logical problem with God allowing sin on Earth in order that we have free will and does that dilemma exist in heaven? If the problem is solved in heaven, then why not solve it here.

Dismissing the dilemma does nothing in helping me solve it. It's too simplistic and quite honestly makes me think that some have not thought through their faith. Not trying to offend, but I can't help but feel that way.

I doubt that you'll have to worry about not having freedom of choice in Heaven.

Well put, Ken. I doubt it too. I'm thinking the praise party will supercede the free choice rally.

It bugs me because of how the Church treats women. I admit that since Vatican Council II women have been treated better especially in the Catholic Church. The Church has attempted to take the Goddess out of the Bible and Gospels. Thankfully, many Christian women scholars have started to right a wrong. To most Christians Eve is still the bad guy.

Still doesn't inspire me to be a Christian but it is interesting to read the Christian women scholars.

I'd expect the free-choice crowd to be somewhere else, and the Heaven crowd totally pleased with their infinite sm�rg�sbord of goodies.

If you really care that much, drop by some time, and let's discuss the radical differences between what you see in the church's treatment of women and what God intended for the r�le of women in Eden and in the Body of Christ.

Where's drop by? Discussing theology with you would be an interesting and enlightening experience.

Where? See my profile. Welcome any time.

It's is not Christianity that make regulates women to the back of the mosques.

Once again your ignorance of Christianity shines. Christianity gives women freedoms unheard of in other religions. The NT set women free. The Jews at that time would cross the street to avoid walking by a woman. When Jesus talked to the woman at the well, he broke all kinds of rules concerning contact with women. Paul talks about how women should conduct themselves in church. Hey, the women WERE IN CHURCH. They weren't allowed in a synagogue, they weren't allowed in most of the temple, they're severely restricted in mosques, most pagan religions treat them like cattle. Christianity brings them right to the alter of God.

WOW, you really do live there. If I find myself down there I'll be sure to look you up. Thanks for the invite.

Well let's clear a few things up.

1. Yes, in early Christianity women were the fastest growing members of Christianity. Once Rome entered the picture and made Christianity the official religion of Rome (Roman Catholic Church) that all ended.

2. I'll admit my view point of Christianity is clouded by my conservative Roman Catholic up bring (pre-Vatican Council II). I'll also admit that there are two Christianities, Catholic and Protestants. The divide to day between the two groups is not nearly as great as it was in my day. Protestants and Catholics could not marry without permission from the local Bishop. All children had to be brought up Catholic. You could not even go to a Protestant funeral without permission from the Bishop. If you attempted to do any of these things on your own you risked excommunication from the Church.

3. You know less about Pagans than I do about Christianity. All Pagan religions of Western culture are female centered. Some Pagan religions exclude male participation. All Pagan religions of Western culture follow some type of spiritual path of the Goddess.

Sorry, I had to leave and give the Boss the computer. Hey, he lets me play on here so when he wants his toy back he gets it.

When I talk about Western culture Pagan religions I'm talking primarily Celtic paths of one type or another. There is a small following of the North (Viking) paths.

All these paths are female and Goddess centered and men learn real fast that if they choose to follow these paths with their Ladies, the man is the Lady's help mate NOT the other way around. This is not to imply that men are treated badly or are hen-pecked on the contrary. I find I am much freer and more equal under a Goddess centered spiritual path than I ever was under God centered spiritual path.

Hope this helps to clear things up a little bit.