Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only double rifles?

Ray, with my old eyes, I am mighty pleased with myself AND the rifle when I can do quick pairs into an inch and a half at 50 yards.

Especially tragic when the slaves now serve willingly.

In fact the 450/400 #2 (aka the 400 Jeffery) is a candidate for shotgun conversions because it is a fairly long but low pressure cartridge that will still gives a a 400 grain bullet at about 2100 fps at much lower pressure than a souped up 45-70. It was more popular before the .375 came out and was used in Africa on up to ele by Taylor. Elmer keith also liked it. And...Hornady now loads it.

Rman,

I'd worry about doing all the work and not being able to get the thing to regulate at all---plus the issue of weight.

That would be more than a bummer. I did some math, and didn't like what I came up with. Barrel blanks would be running close to $300.00 new, plus machining. A lot of machining, probably that much again to get them installed, plus the extractors. I would say a $1200 bill at least for a sows ear, not a silk purse. There are a few around. There was a double at the show here this weekend, an English to boot, for $5000.00. It could have used new wood, but thats about it. Like all things, best just to wait until it can be done properly.

R.

With the help of Rick Stickleys metal genious (rick lived in Pocotello, Id. back then) I have built one double rifle from a re-hardened Browing side by side..It was a real project and one I will not attempt again..It cost me about $5000 and it shot well, mostly due to Ricks coaching and his ability of solder, but in the end, it was still a shotgun conversion..It was a beautiful rifle with a real nice exhibition Circasian stock.

I finally sold it for $8000. but that was full value and lucky on my part I think..I fear that if I built anymore of them they wouldn't sell quick and then bring only about $5000...It just didn't seem like a good business venture inasmuch as I have a years labor tied up in it...The guy that bought it still hunts with it and loves it...

Hi,

This is not a dangerous game double but an italian made Rizzini in 444. Made for french and south european market where the 444 has good reputation on wild boar despite is poor Remington factory bullet.
I have this one to test and this target is from 50m, the first two impacts where before rear sight adjustment. The other four are two one two without wait between shots, elbows rest with left blocked by my Millet plastic rest. Two 10 were down barrel two 9 up were up barrel.
I ain't tested it with reload cause most of hunters use factory fodder here, but i kept the double for some months more to do some trials. The barrels are 60cm and i wait a new model to test in 45-70, we are looking with Rizzini to have it regulated with french made cartridges (cip approved) with 300 grs partition or 350 hornady to around 600m/s (2000fps.
They prepare also for september a side by side double of high quality, english styled, in 450-400, 45-70, 405, and one or two other calibers i don't remind. Wait and see. Will have one to test as soon as available.
Regards
Dom

One of my friends was lucky enough to be part of a group celebrating the birthday of Mr. Kalashnikov. They hunted Red Stag with Baikal 30-06 O-U rifles. My friend raved about them & I purchased one at an attractive price when he returned from Russia. I believe it may have been used on the hunt because the trigger was almost decent. I put a red dot scope on it & was able to shoot about 2 1/2-3 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I used on a hog hunt in Florida & shot a couple. One was at 150 yards which was further than I desired, but it was accurate enough. Compared to a fine balanced rifle there is no comparison. As a utilitarian rifle it would certainly work at short ranges. Butt Ugly comes to mind. My other rifles will not allow the Baikal in the vault. I definitely need to take to the next gun show. All of this said, for someone that likes to tinker & shoot at short range it is an economical way to play with a double.

This Merkel 141 9,3x74R shoot groups of around 4cm at 60m with Norma Oryx 286grs, with or without red dot sight (Aimpoint H1).

The new Merkel over under in 470 and 500 presented at the german IWA in Nurnberg, i don't shoot it yet but must do its job, not on wild boar for sure...Normally regulated with Norma African PH but you can ask for other i you want to pay extra.

I really would like to get a double rifle with a preference for a SxS. It's interesting that the Continental rifles (I can't afford an English gun) in the price range I'm looking at are invariably in 9.3x74R. Then there's the chambering gap to the 450's; I would really like a 450/400 but with Hornady now offering ammo they've become harder to come by it seems.

I'd rather have a little more power than the 9.3, at least 375 H&H power. What's the story on the 375 Flanged as to loads and the future? Kynoch's factory loads I've seen go for $10 a pop!

And lastly, aside from our European friends, who here in the US are using the long, tall 9.3x74R on game. I like the fact that you can get a double in this chambering for 7.5-8lbs. and I just would really think it neat to sneak up on and plunk a moose with a double.

Very nice picture Marseille.

Just one more comment on either shotgun conversions or re-barreling, take your pick.

One of the best double-barrel American gunsmiths I've encountered (who spent much time learning his craft in Europe) said that he would gladly rebarrel any quality double shotgun to shotgun or rifle barrels, or rebarrel any double rifle, or reregulate any double rifle. He did it a lot, and I saw him do it a couple of times. He did it extremely well.

He charged by the hour, above and beyond parts, and would not quote a price beyond parts, except to tell potential customers that it would cost at least $1500 PLUS parts--and maybe $10,000.

It is a lot cheaper, generally, to buy a quality used double rifle, even if the action is a little loose. The action can be tightened for $500 or so by a good gunsmith.

Did this fella have a preference for a shotgun action to use?


I have built a 470 on a CZ 12 ga action and with a greener cross bolt seems strong. I proofed it with the 10% heavier bullet load concept, plus had the bullet seated into the rifling a couple thou's. Mounted the rifle to a beam and stepped around the corner with a string in hand. I fired 6 rounds and the action didn't budge. I threaded the entire length of the monoblock openings with 32 tpi and then full length threaded the barrel extensions. I told the customer to keep the loads on the lighter side but I guess that may not need to be the case.

If I were to build a double rifle on a shotgun action then I would use a Browning BSS 12 ga., I would have it re-hardened and be good to go with about any reasonalble double rifle load..BTW it is still going to cost you about $8000 at the least and probably more...

Based on that, you can buy a used Merkle for about the same money if you shop and argueably have a better rifle..Also the resale on shotgun actioned double rifles is zilch, and they are darn hard to move..

Personally if I couldn't afford a double rifle I would opt for a Ruger No.1 and be good to go...

I have absolutly no use for and over/under double rifle as far as a DG rifle..It's design is not such that function is reliable in that the lower barrel does not clear the action and if you are under pressure it has a tendency stop catch the ejected round on the top of the action, mostly out of human error in not forcing it open all the way, but never the less it can be an issue..That is why is has never been popular in Africa, and never will be, it just did not stand the test.

Love those browning superposed shotguns, but not the rifles.