Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 257 Roberts AI!

My initial 25-284 was built on a 24" Remington 722 barrel that went throught the same 257 Roberts to 257 AI to 25-284 sequence and 100 grain bullets did go faster each time, but not enough faster to make a meaningful difference in down-range performance, at least within the 400+/- yards maximum range that I feel comfortable shooting game.

My goal in reloading is to find an optimal balance of accuracy, speed, and case life at safe operating pressures, with accuracy being at the top of the hierarchy. But as with most things, people start from a different place and have different perspective, goals, and objectives. I can only relate what my experiences have been and my experiences were partly a result of my perspective of what was "right" for me at the time. I am certainly not telling anybody at 24HCF what they should do, based on my experience, but this thread started with a guy claiming 3322 fps with a 117 grain bullet from a 257AI, using POA's reloading data, and I thought at the time (and still think) that somebody was obligated to issue a routine POA caution, so I took it upon myself to do so.

Jeff

Never seen a Bob/Better Bob...that'd hang Agg's in 25-284 accords. That whether through the same barrel or of like build.

Then there's the COAL benefits,performance,yada,yadayada.

Win/win/win/win.................

It appears by some of these posts, that all thing related to rifle development and handloading ammunition that were developed before 1980 ( or so) were done by people who had no idea about what they were doing. If that is the case, then where in the hell did all the rifles and cartridges that we now use come from. I have both volume's of P.O. Ackleys Handbooks for Shooters and Reloaders, and have read them numerous times. Nowhere in these books does he, or the many other contributors to these works condone improper or unsafe handloading practices. If you take the time to actually read these great books, you will find P.O. Ackley to be the most knowledgable gun guy on the planet. He did not as was posted earler accidentally blow up a Jap action. He did it on purpose! He wanted to know the strength of military actions, and tested all until they failed, so we would all know how safe or unsafe they are. The loading data listed in these books, is like data in any manual. Start low and work up to what is safe in YOUR rifle. I have 257AI in a Ruger 77ts with a 22" barrel. The Ackley handbook says 50gr of 4350 will give 3257 fps, mine does 3130 fps. No doubt a difference in barrel length. Lastly; there weren't as many lawyers on the payrolls back in those days, and their predisposition to slow things down. P.O. Ackley's advise was the same then as modern experts is now, start low and watch for problems. Luke

You should be asking questions,not trying to "answer" them..........

OK Larry, you win.

As you know, I've been shooting the 25 WSSM more than any other .257" bore cartridge over the past few years and am happy with the performance from the slightly shorter package.

Jeff

I'm not answering any questions. I'm just pointing out the fact that Ackley was not a loose cannon, as he is sometimes made out to be.

I'm sure that POA was a great guy, but he was also interested in promoting the ideas of POA to the exclusion of most others. Take, for example, his treatment of the 250AI and 25 Souper. These are 2 cartridges that are so similar as to be twins, but POA makes the 250AI sound like the next great hope while treating the 25 Souper as if it was something of an also ran.

The problem that I see with POA's data is that lots of people accept it as if it came down from Mt. Sinai ialong with the 10 Commandments. They believe it unconditionally, plus it was published long before there were the technological test equipement that is available today.

You're not going to get any fight from me if you want to trust in POA. I don't know you and don't care what you do.

Jeff

There is no "win",it's just pro vs con.

The greatest pro of the 25-284,is that there are no cons.............

Propellants have changed and made ALL chamberings better. $99 chronographs have seperated much Wheat and that is a good thing.

I'm a fan of minimal taper,for alotta reasons.............

It's not that I trust Ackley's data anymore or less than any other source. No matter who's data, start low. I looked in both of my Ackley manuals and cannot find a load of 47gr of 4320 with 117 bullet for 257AI. Maybe there is another book.

Not to change the subject but, for all you 257AI fans. The Howa 1500 short action or Weatherby Vanguard actions are about 1/4" longer than Rem, Win, savage and work very well for this round. Any cartridge in that family 6mm 257 7-57.

It's not that I trust Ackley's data anymore or less than any other source. No matter who's data, start low. I looked in both of my Ackley manuals and cannot find a load of 47gr of 4320 with 117 bullet for 257AI. Maybe there is another book.

Which is still a long road to travel,to reap less than 284Win parent case capacity.

Howa boxes are now crowding 3.1"? That would be nice,in 6-284,25-284 and especially 284...............

EVERY rifle was "fast",prior to the widespread use of chronographs...just as every Critter killed was "far",prior to the LRF................(grin)

[Good point all good cartridges for that Action. They are good actions and less weight than the M98. Also stainless steel if wanted.
Which is still a long road to travel,to reap less than 284Win parent case capacity.

Howa boxes are now crowding 3.1"? That would be nice,in 6-284,25-284 and especially 284............... [/quote]

I've long been a Howa fan and much prefer two-lugs to a 6 or 9-lug Howa.

A 3"+ COAL box would horn me up............

Has anyone worked up a load with RL17 for the 257imp

I have but refuse to post load data anymore because I don't need someone who buys guns instead of building them or haves someone else build them, tell me how reckless I am. Sounds like they need a dog to tell what to do, or some kids! I suppose Roy W. had people tell him he was out there too, good thing he didn't listen to them either or we would all be shooting 225 Win. as a fast gun! I only know what I read and do, mostly do! I never let anyone, and I mean anyone howl me down or brow beat me into thinking they know best for me. Been there, done that. Some guy who couldn't find tatta's on a girl in the front seat of a pick-up with a road map and both hands! Who said I need your seal of approval to be safe. I thought this was a friendly forum, not a panel of judges! If I see someone doing something stupid I don't say a word, they'll live, if they don't less people to add to the gene pool!

At some point in time, the following question was asked of a very experienced reloader:

"What do you think of the reloading data in P.O. Ackley's Volume 1 & 2?"

His answer (paraphrased) was:

"There are a bunch rather dim-brained handloaders out there who believe that loading data almost a half-century old is still valid.

Some of the data in the books was pressure-tested by Ackley himself, and would be OK if most of the powders shown hadn't changed somewhat over the years. H4831, for instance, has gone through at least two changes since Ackley's data was shot with mil-surp H4831.

The rest of the data comes from either handloaders and wildcatters (who often estimated not just the pressure but the velocity) or from loading manuals that worked up loads the same way uninformed handloaders do today, by assuming that if the rifle and brass don't show any severe signs of stress, then the load is safe."

'Guess that I'm not alone on the issue of POA's reloading data.

Jeff

Hi Guys, Built up a couple of 257RobAI's, First one was on a K98 but the action was too long and so was the lock time. Subsequently purchased a shot out .243Win, M55 Tikka and had a barrel smith friend rebore it and chamber it for BOBAI. It shot 1" groups on fire forming and has held that or better forever.
I have shot a whole mob of goats with it over the years using Sierra 100g SPBT's with an ESTIMATED 3000 fps - All of them perfect shoulder shots although I was amazed out how often the shoulder tended to relocate itself to various parts of the goats anatomy, really quite surprising. While I fell in love with BOB after reading POA, the data I used came from the Sierra loading manual(s). I am not velocity crazy and wanted to make sure this beautiful rifle was going to last me a life time. That was some 30 years ago. Using the Sierra's I don't actually remember any second shots, (I'm sure there was, but none that I remember)death was either instant or with in a few yards, mostly at ranges under 150 yards. Go the mighty BOB, from a friend DOWN UNDER
Bravo 27