Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Dear Leupold

ok then why spend hours arguing over it, talk is cheap

How in the world do we compare a finished system to one that the end user has had to do load development and all the other things necessary to make at least a middling good hunting rifle?

If we are comparing end-user systems then let�s let the end user use them. Little Fish want nothing to do with that game.

Apples to Apples my friend.

I have been accused of overcharging for a complete system and now you want to add end user load development and drop data to the comp??

My stuff will still come out on top in a fair eval but come on man let�s keep this level.

Just ship the rifles and the cost for that would be borne by pledgors here at the 'fire.

Done.

And, if they go the 3rd party route, would you be willing to be the evaluator or at least one of them?

The ones that came to mind for me immediately are all in MT: you, Shane (MontanaMarine), and Pat (scenarshooter). That isn't "volunteering" any of you, just simply saying that I'd easily take y'alls word and ability to do the comparisons accurately, unbiased, and very well.

WGM,

Your suggestion is excellent. It would also be a lot cheaper than sponsoring a pissing/shooting match.

But I have noticed a distinct lack of Shane's posts on threads like these....

Hell yeah!

Hell VA I could up the ante a tad on the build and still be way under 6 grand. I even threw the thread with the specs and pics to the upper end of the custom rifle threads hopin Stick might have somethin to say about it. He wont like the bullet or optics choice but then again, I didnt ask him. Stiller Tac 30 action $875, Brux barrel $285, chambering/threading/crowning/installing trigger/assembling barreled action $350, cera kote $300, PT&G BDL billet aluminum bottom metal $90, stock(not a mickey but the wife likes it)$100, pillar/skim bedding/recoil pad install $150, trigger $105, 1 pc 0 MOA tac rail $40. We at $2295 less optics. And even after adding some sure nuf quality glass there's plenty left over for other goodies. Always thought the whole purpose of having a rifle built was to get what YOU want, not what someone else thinks you need.

Okay, so now I am curious.

Are you saying that the system you provide, with the ammo you provide, isn't completed as far as load development and there's no drop chart for the loads that are provided?

Actually Calvin, I have been trying to find that old thread - anyone got it bookmarked, it's an absolute classic.

JB ...

Everyone once in a while I've been known to come up with a good idea, but don't hold your breath for the next one ... (grin)

I just don't understand why JBurns is so insistent on only comparing his system to another system that is "turn key" by his unique definition of such. As I and VAnimrod have pointed out, as long as an independent third party ends up with a rifle ready to shoot (rifle, loaded ammo, drop chart, etc.) that it's as "turn key" to that shooter as anything can be ... but Burns keeps trying to say it's not. I don't understand that, but oh well ...

As for Shane, I don't blame him for staying out of this ... but then again, that's one of the qualities that makes him a very viable candidate for being the "third party" ... if he would even consider it ...

I don't have it, but it was a funny one! Glad somebody knew what I was talking about!

It is an absolute classic - I might have to keep digging...

Mike;

Stand-by...

Last I saw Stick didn't come to the 'Fire in attempts to sell anything to the masses (I'm talking monetarily here).

I've no use for anyone that comes here and won't offer up the particulars of their wares.

A salesman is a salesman regardless if he is peddling Christ, used cars or $6K rifles.

Gold coin

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/182519/1

ok guys...lets cut the crap. Bring your rifle(and I do believe this a hunting rifle competition...so no showing up with a 40lb tricked out dedicated target rifle) and lets let some boolits fly. Let the owners shoot. Screw the third party stuff. Cause this is just as much about the owner as it is the operator. KD and UKD LR shooting at its best. Just a straight up run what ya brung shootin match.

This is true.

I've never seen Doug try to sell a $400 Conquest for $800 because it was sprinkled in pixie dust. Might be a lesson there.

Oh, and John, you're not overcharging; you're charging what at least a part of the market will bear. That's pure economics.

But, you, I, and just about anyone here knows that the same can be built for far less without the "stupid tax".

Which, when you come to think about it, perhaps you have figured out a way to make stupid hurt, at least to some.

I keep offering just that ... here's a pic of the rifle I offered up to be independently tested against one of Burns' "turn key" systems ...



it's not a fly-weight by any means, but it's definitely a hunting rifle, and fits the bill of being just that, as well as "turn key" to the end user considering that it would be shipped with loaded ammo and a drop chart ...

but since I'm not a commercial dealer, Burns says it doesn't qualify as a "level competitor" to his system ...