Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christians, please advise....

I understand all that better than most and see no need for a church. Spent 50 years in churches...gave them about a quarter of a million dollars....and got nothing in return. My advise is run for your life....and soul's sake.

This thread has been a great read for the most part. There's lots of wisdom around the campfire this day.

What KG said.

I'm neither Christian nor religious but I respect many who are so my comment below is not intended to offend. And not being religious I have no dog in this particular difference of opinion.

But...I think the more correct analogy would be something like:

Saying you are a Christian but have no use for a church would be more like saying you are a rifleman but have no use for joining a riflemen's club where other riflemen meet to discuss their theories and beliefs of what a particular book about rifle shooting has to say and how you should go about shooting when you do go to the range.

The church is not the rifle range. Life outside the church is the rifle range.

You might pick up some great theories and tips about shooting (along with some not so good tips and theories) at a particular riflemen's club (or at another club that interpreted the same book a bit differently). But you actually put them into practice at the range (or in the hunting fields.)

Then, again, you might want to join an entirely different riflemen's club where they discussed the "truths" about rifle shooting that they derived from an entirely different book.

Some of you might be bench rest shooters or high power. Others purely hunters just sighting in for hunting. So your choice of riflemen's club might be different.

You might all be successful shooters - hitting the target you aimed at but just getting there in different ways. Or you might be lousy shooters because:
1. you were unable or unwilling to actually put into practice the tips and theories you've learned from your particular club and the book it is based on;
2. because you interpreted and employed the tips and theories incorrectly;
3. because the theories and tips from your book and/or club were wrong (however strongly you believed them).

Or you might never have joined a riflemen's club or ever read any of the GREAT BOOKS on rifle shooting but still have learned the principles of how to shoot, when to shoot, and to ONLY shoot at something you intended to hit and/or kill from your parents, from watching others, or from your personal experience through trial and error and practice. You might be the great shot who proves that NONE of the books on shooting are essential to great shooting.

Knowledge of all the GREAT BOOKS on shooting might be useful but none may be either necessary or sufficient to produce a great shooter.

Swampy,

Did any of your 250k go to save even one person's soul, or teach him/her about Jesus? If so, I'd consider that money well spent!

IMO you don't give to a Church to get something in return. You give because of what the Church, and Jesus, has provided you - grace, mercy and salvation! Jesus said, "where two or more of you are gathered in my name, there I am also"...

Oddly enough I believe Jesus Christ doesn't need a middle man. He's got an instruction book. We just read it, believe it, and live it as an example to others.

John 13:34-35 (New International Version, �2011)

34 �A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.�

Per the scripture above, the WB Church is condemned by their lack of love.

At the funeral for Lazarus, Jesus wept. At the funeral for soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines the WBC mocks. They will answer to God for their actions.

You realize that the middle men wrote the book.

And part of living it is attending church and tithing...after all he does give us 90%..grin

Dober

Return? You don't give to God and expect a return. There's no profit/loss statement. You give as a sacrifice. He will return it if you give with your heart, but if your heart is wrong, He won't.

No, they only moved the quill.

Um... man, where to start?

Well... I guess your problem is just that... you're beginning with yourself. If you start with an incorrect presupposition you'll end up at the wrong conclusion.

The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, not to run his own life for his own soul's sake making his own judgments as to whether the money that wasn't his in the first place got him anything in return.

We submit ourselves to the authority of the Church and its officers as an act of humility which is to reflect our submission to Christ who instituted and established His Church.

You're missing the point my friend.

Well, I didn't read down through the post, but I would like to know if God is killing the other guys for the same reason.

I'd rather burn in hell for eternity than submit myself to a man, a group of men, or an organization. Jesus Christ lives in my heart and that's enough.

You should read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and then your eyes will be opened.....you do want them opened?

Preachers, Priest, politians, and lawyers.....95% of them give the rest a bad name.

Not odd at all. There are a couple of key phrases here: "I believe"; "believe it"; and "live it".

Depending on your particular interpretation of the "instruction book" I may respect your beliefs and applaud you for living them, even if I don't share them. But, if you happen to share the interpretation of the "instruction book" that the Westboro Baptist Church folks have, then I'd respect your right to your beliefs even though I didn't respect the beliefs themselves. I would neither respect nor applaud your living them and might actively oppose you.

I presume your beliefs are quite different from the Westboro folks.

I find some profound principles of enormous value in Jesus' life and teachings (as I do in the teachings of other religions). But I find much that is contradictory in the Bible (and other "Great Books"), the interpretations of it, and the ways it is "followed" or implemented by the various Christian religious organizations.

To me, the "instruction book" is neither as clear nor precise as a set of plans I would want if I were going to build a house, or bake a cake, or live a life. There's too much room for interpretation - hence the widely varying understanding of it's meaning. Some of the principles contained in the instruction book are quite sufficient. Others are extraneous, contradictory, maladaptive, and harmful.

But I agree that none of us need a "middle man" to live a moral life. For those who find a middle man useful I support their choice, so long as the middle man doesn't lead them astray as the Westboro "middle man" has done.

Sadly, I wish the churches would preach salvation and avoid everything else. They are into politics, health food, conspiricy theories, and everything in the world but the great commision.

SMN1 I agree with your comments that congregations of the Church of Christ ought to preach salvation. That is the kind of preacher I sit under, and won't submit to any other.

We were visiting a congregation one time on "right to life Sunday" (a man made construct if I've ever heard of one) and the so-called "preacher" gave what amounted to a political speech against abortion. Now I'm against it too but believe it to be abuse of the minister's office to give a stump speech on anything whether I agree or disagree. If I hadn't feared retribution from my wife for mortifying her with such a display I'd have lead my whole family out of that thing.

Fortunately... or unfortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, we got out to the van after a quick exodus from the building and my wife was like, "we oughta have left in the middle of that..." DOE! So much for good solid federal headship... see me hanging my head in shame...

At any rate, I am not spiritually abused subtly nor otherwise. If the Gospel (that is, salvation as a free gift of grace offered freely by God to whomever shall believe in his own sinfulness and turn to Christ as propitatory sacrifice for his sins of omission & commission) isn't preached I won't be a repeat attender, much less a member.

If it is, I'll do anything for it... or I ought to... some days are better than others, but gratitude certainly motivates better than the threat of punishment.

I love the first question and answer of the Heidelberg catechism, which I had printed on the folder for my father's funeral about a week ago:

"What is your only comfort in life and in death?

My only comfort is that I am not my own, but belong with body and soul, both in life and in death, to my faithful Savior Jesus Christ. He has fully paid for all my sins with His precious blood, and has set me free from all the power of the devil. He also preserves me in such a way that without the will of my heavenly Father not a hair can fall from my head; indeed, all things must work together for my salvation. Therefore, by His Holy Spirit He also assures me of eternal life and makes me heartily willing and ready from now on to live for Him."

Still living for him but I can barely sit through a service. I went to a new church Sunday and I was so uncomfortable with the contemporary music program I could barely stay. The sermon was pretty much a multi-media event and though he did preach salvation, he prattled on so long that he ruined any good effect he might have achived. Women and men in shorts and flip flops was a bit disrespectful I felt. I wish I could find a place like the churches I attended as a child.

Here is one I heard recently that really struck a cord with me:

http://christchurchgr.org/audio%20files/sermon_10-10-2010.mp3

I'm with you on the "contemporary" stuff. That is a tough one for me, but increasingly tough to get away from.

I try to focus on the preaching of the Gospel in my congregation. I don't know where you're at and ours can be hit or miss like most denominations, but the OPC and PCA have in my experience been somewhat reliable on this point (of faithfully preaching the Gospel).

Are they Calvinistic?