Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors "Special Order Nickel Plated Trimmings" on M-1899

Quite the brag. That there is justification to demand that you post the buying price. Us poor sons of unmarried parents could use the laugh.

Probably because it was at one time before someone shined it up, now it's whats known as a hybrid rat. At least you know that the scope and sling swivels kill any collector value and with them added the $30 for the letter is a waste of time. The nickel trimmings won't do much for it now anyways.

I don't remember seeing one with a plated bolt. They are bright when shipped from the factory and might require additional machining to made up for the added plating.

With the serial in the 190xxx range the rifle would have shipped with the standard "high luster blue" of the earlier rifles. Your rifle does not appear to have that finish. If you got it for a "gray rat" price and the bore is good and the barrel screws up correctly then you did good. Might not be original but still a fine looking rifle.

Obviously, the gun is non original mess by collectors standard but will likely kill just fine.

More on point to the plating:
I have seen one legit plated 99, and one ??? gun... both were just lever and butt plate from what I recall.
The first is a well lettered gun that was at auction recently that belonged to a famous shooter back in the day.

the other was clearly a factory upgrade gun but sort of unique, A3 or A5 checkering and a simple line engraving around the receiver and a little triangle on the lever boss. I believe that Blair has a similar gun. This gun was otherwise a totally trashed early 1899.

Both were built well before 1910.

I really wonder how long these options existed??? I would think after WWI, things like chrome plating were for the most part not options any longer.

Rick,

I don't believe the bolt is plated for the reasons that you state. The metal used in the bolt is really high quality and with time and patience will polish up to a mirror finish, I have done this with a project rifle that I have. So I would say polished up and not plated.

Blair

For the kind folks contributing to this thread, and anyone else:

1. Serial Numbers on receiver, forearm, butt-stock (under butt plate) all match, including scratched on the backside of the butt plate. I am not sure if the latter is �normal� but might be in the case of a �special order� that received a little extra fitting attention. All other markings are as expected. Yes, I checked before I posted. If not genuine expertise, I might have assumed at least some sophistication from someone that had a copy of Murray�s book on hand for several years before he bought the rifle in question.

2. As to �cold scrotums�, I have only experience with my own. So on scrotums I gladly concede expertise to those with obviously much broader, hands-on, experience.

As to wood shrinkage on 100+ year old firearms, I own enough to have an opinion regarding observable variation. I did indeed consider your picture before expressing my opinion to the effect that I am not sure you are right. I�m not sure you are wrong either. In any event, you may note that I bought the firearm assuming it had been fiddled (in addition to being scoped and sling swivels added) and have begun seriously questioning this conclusion only on looking carefully in good light and with aid of a bore scope and magnifier. As I said, if refinished, work quality is a lot better than most I have seen and the firearm was in very good shape before being refinished. Rifling is as new.

3. Refinished or not, with the rifle in hand, I assure you that neither in terms of gross contour or smoothness or surface appearance is the right side of cheek-piece sanded more or less than the left. With the rifle in hand, I would subjectively characterize the bluing as a �high luster blue,� but considering how color sensitivity and balance vary in digital cameras and in display monitors, I don�t know how, except perhaps on surface texture, one can confidently say what several of you said from afar. I don�t have another same period Savage with still unworn enough finish to make meaningful direct comparison. But I do have a couple of mint Colts and a near mint Winchester from the period. The blue is a little bluer (less blackish) than the Winchester and a tinge less �plum colored� (purplish) than the Colt. But I can not imagine drawing such distinctions from a digital color photograph unless two or more differing weapons were side-by-side.

4. Price or value from my view isn�t the point except as it may lend credibility to the seller�s story). For those that are historically literate and absolutely have to know (so they can laugh or cry), multiply the number of terms actually served by FDR (including the fraction of the last) by 100. This will get you within a sawbuck. The sticker price, which was way too much in my mind for a probably refinished rifle was better than 3 times this amount. I NEVER MENTIONED PRICE IN THE TRANSACTION. After you have done the math (and first perhaps consulted Wikipedia) you might consider the credibility of the inferred brag relative to my claims and the pictures. Married or not, it�s nice you know both your parents.

5. Thanks to the several of you that recall previously seeing �authentic� M1899�s with at least plated levers. The Seller referred to them as �chrome plated� though because of Savage catalog entries I am referring to them as �nickel plated.� Appearance wise, they are like a high condition Nickel plated colt from the 1920�s, so I am guessing at nickel, I think Blair made a plausible observation about bolt polish but is wrong because the high shine is visible on ordinarily invisible bolt surfaces, including areas of unpolished roughness. Looks like plating to me. And it�s not silver. If done later, the plating could of course indeed be chrome.

The comments on plate thickness (particularly as it might influence the bolt) are interesting. Here I can only comment that the action of this rifle displays a lot more slickness than a mint 99 in the safe from the mid 1950�s with less shake and rattle than this rifle and a couple of older, more worn, 1899s. The trigger on this piece is wonderful without being overly light. Before or after leaving the factory, I�m pretty sure this trigger was honed by an artist.

As to �option availability� the list in Murray on page 5-21 in consideration of patent dates on the same page would suggest AT LEAST until 1913 and Murray�s notes on the 250/3000 model indicate that it specifically bundled together many of the most popular �options.� The serial number on this rifle dates it to 1916/1917. I think it likely the �Nickel Plated Trimmings� were available �Special Order Features� when the rifle was made.

6. The intriguing thing for me is that our �Savage collector authorities� who are so insistent on �originality� have not [yet] said exactly what Savage meant (at least as late as 1913 - kudus to Murray) when Savage printed literature said you could order a M1899 with �Nickel plated trimmings.� Without a pretty good understanding of such information voids, it seems to me that more than one original piece has been falsely dismissed by the �expert�.

I don't know compadre, but that gun looks re-done to me. Well done, but re-done nonetheless. If the pics aren't lying, aside from the bluing looking to be the wrong shade- too dark-, the various holes look to have ever so slightly rounded edges, the varnish in the checkering, and the lever itself looks like it spent some time pressed against a polishing wheel as does the bolt, not to mention the wood "shrinkage" already noted by the staff urologist. It could indeed be a trick of the low quality photography but that's what it looks like on my screen.

I would think that Savage would have done a better job of metal prep before sending that lever to the platers. On the other hand, if it turns out to be of factory origin, it would be neat.

If it were mine I would replace the plated bits and lose the 60's-era low end optics and hunt with it. Therein lies it's true value. You probably paid exactly what it's worth in today's money, but way too much in January, 1945 dollars. (When FDR was sworn in for his fourth term, if I'm not mistaken.)

If you go to "LES'S" website savagela.org and you look at the pictures under loggah's 250-3000 you will see what a factory finish rifle looks like. Don

Maybe that old guy who sold it to you polished up his line in addition to the bolt, trigger and lever.

Every LBFM in the Phillipines is a virgin too!

I don't know a thing about factory nickel plating, but I do know one thing.

When you come here................you have to be willing to listen to the brutal truth.

Good, bad, and ugly.................take it or leave it.

If that gun were straight and original, you would never have gotten a crack at it.

Practically never is a firearm what a flea market storyteller/seller says it is.

The subject of this thread can be thrown into the pile of proof of the above statement.


Mike

Loggah's 250-3000.. original finish:

Link to full sized pic

One of my personal favourites. An 1899H special order pistol grip and checkering DOM 1914 in 303 sav (letters). This is original finish.











Blair

When it was pointed out that it was sanded you argued and made excuses. When it was pointed out by many that the blue didn't look right, you argued and made excuses. Does it change anything if anyone her tells you the plating is right or wrong? I suspect that you will not be happy until you hear what you want to hear.

Since the action has been drilled and tapped, the other features you ask about; whether factory or bubba created, aren't really relevant, and have no bearing on the value of the gun. What you have is a very nice shooter at what sound like a very fair price. When you ask the opinion of the guys here, I've learned that you get exactly that....some butally honest and quite educated opinions.

Please pardon my frustration. But as yet, no one has addressed the question posed in the original post. Maybe I have camouflaged the question I asked with enthusiasm for the purchase.

So, most directly: What did you get if you ordered and paid for "Nickel plated trimmings" on your order for Savage M 1899 in 1917 or thereabouts. Murray's reproduction of Savage materials of the period clearly say you can get "Nickel plated trimmings," WTF are they?

I'm pretty sure they a shiny version of stuff you set on the table at Christmas with the Turkey.

Maybe I am naive. But this seems exactly the kind of direct FACTUAL question that anyone claiming to be a Savage expert would be able to answer. If there is one here, I would be ever so grateful for a direct answer.

I appreciate all the opinions, informed and less so and have tried to provide pictures and my observations to indulge both my own enthusiasm and the natural voyeurism of forum participants. But the scope and swivels from the beginning have made it face obvious this is no longer a "factory original" piece of otherwise high collector's value. That, and the possibility that this piece is "cosmetically enhanced," however, are pretty much irrelevant to my question of "trimmings" and their originality. If "trimmings" do not include the shiny parts on this rifle, then opinions about refinishing (or not) are even more irrelevant.

In closing, usually I view "shiny parts" and the like as gaudy decoration. The combination here is in my mind a tasteful enhancement to the appearance of your "ordinary" 1899. Mechanically, this rifle is both unworn and a cut above the norm in action tightness and smoothness with the best trigger I have seen on one, including the three others I currently own. If it proves to shoot anywhere near as well as my TD in 219 Zipper does (NOT FACTORY ORIGINAL!) .......

Yeti,

An earlier 24hrCF thread on special order trimmings.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...tthread/Board/40/main/310614/type/thread

According to Mad Dog, a one-time active poster here, receivers and butt plates were factory NP.

But facts off the Internet are highly suspect. Pay the piper. Get a letter.

Doubtful you will believe any of the posters on this thread anyway.

You will see quite often: Savage, never say never. As for nickel plating I have seen receivers, levers, butt plates but never a bolt or a trigger. It was the day when you didn't have to order the sunshine package to get 2 options that you wanted and 8 that you didn't for a factory special price. If you wanted special plating it was available. Regular bluing with engraving and gold plated screws I have seen, so is just the screws plated what they calling trimmings? I don't know. Heck even the John Francis Dodge rifle which to date is the most ornate savage 1899 shown has a blued trigger and case colour lever. If you asked and paid for it you could get it. Will the records show it probably not, it may show a work order number, but the work orders are long gone.

Blair

Thank you carbon 12 for a most responsive reply.

From the pictures, it appears that legitimate examples of "Nickel plated trimmings" can include a crescent butt-plate (note my example on a 250/3000 is the expected shotgun style and is blued, not plated), the lever, and possibly, given the appearance of the high grade engraved example, the breech bolt bolt. The receiver could also be plated by the factory. But Murray lists this as a separately priced option. In any event, appearance of the lever in the thread you sent is not unlike that on mine and that is encouraging re. my interest.

My second unanswered question is whether or not "Special Order" features are covered in a letter? If someone can affirm this, than there is a $25 path to satisfy my curiosity. I've never seen a Savage letter and don't know what one might reveal in the case of a special order.

My contention with the posters really isn't whether they are right or wrong about a refinish but the willingness a couple to imply I am stupid for things I pointed out myself right at the beginning! In addition, their only issue seems to be perfected originality of the piece, not in understanding what was available from Savage and without really understanding that themselves. And arguing things like "finish color" from my lousy pictures without consideration of camera, lighting, color sensitivity and balance. My pictures were taken hand held in a dim room by flash with an old, cheap camera. Give me five minutes with Photoshop and I'll make them any color you want. As Sara Palin says: Sheeesh! My God. It's me and only me that has looked at the innards including down a bore scope at the barrel! And its also me that knows the gummed up checkering is mostly some still tacky linseed oil. If that ruins originality, then there is not an original piece to be had at a gun show in America. But thank you to whoever it was that put up some very good pictures taken in daylight of a couple of very nice Savages.

The scholarship on Winchesters and Colts is pretty deep and supports pretty good collector expertise, probably because of their deeper role in American History. Not to mention that "mistakes" with Colts and Winchesters can be a lot more expensive. Murray is a good start for Savage, but I had not considered that maybe few Savage collectors even understood the details of info put forward by Murray. I almost didn't put my originality disclaimer re. my Savage 219 Zipper just to let them pompously assert that Savage never chambered the round. One still might.

Within reason, I really don't give a FF what this piece is worth but am genuinely curious about the originality of a feature I have not previously seen on a Savage 1899. It is, minimally, however, in terms of wear, mechanical function, and appearance (relative to the normal "scoped" 99 gray rat out there) a superb example and better worth the price paid than most 1899s you see out there. My God, scarred up and scoped 99Es that were junky when they left the factory with sling swivels and genuine pine (or whatever) stocks are tagged $650 at gun shows! I just last week watched one go at auction for %525. And your typical gray 99 350/3000(or other TD with a scope and shaky barrel) has a $900+ price tag. Anyway ....

Thanks.