Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting What to build???

and Dan Dowling would be tickled to do a 6 Dasher!

He's one hellufa nice guy and fun to talk with.

http://www.6mmbr.com/schatz1000.html

No doubt about it. I live about 2 hrs from him and will be going to school about 25 min away from his shop in the fall. I'd love to see if he needed any help around the shop ever.

The reason I suggested 6BR is no fire forming, and simplicity. If you're thinking .243AI, you're going to be fire forming cases. If that's the case...I'd go 6 Dasher and never look back.

When you get to thinking about Fireforming it's pretty small potatoes I think... with the quality of some of that BR brass, 100-150 cases should last you the life of the barrel. Maybe even fewer cases would...

For me, that's just an afternoon or 2 of letting little sister shoot pumpkins or cans or whatever at the 100 yd line.

But the 6BR seems to do just fine as well

"Zackly.....

95% of the 243 performance with 8-10 grains less powder.

10 of the top 10 (that's damn near 100%) shot 6 Dashers in last year's 2011 IBS 600 yard Nationals.

BTW.....

I usta shoot BR with Dan Dowling in Porcupine SD, and have had him build a bunch of stuff through the years, including my first two bench guns back in the 80's when he was fresh outta Trinidad, and currently shoot with Richard Schatz here and there. I consider both friends.

Also FWIW....

I set the Light Gun IBS/World record 6 target agg. at 4.2xx" in 2009 with a 6 Dasher.

aalf,

I shot with Richard in Byers, CO hell of a nice guy and I enjoyed the many many conversations...ok..ok.. me badgering him with questions .. we had.

My whole issue with fire forming is the time it takes. I guess it irks me ( mostly cause my time is now very limited ) to have to FF.. then after all that go back and do a load work up.

Someone convince me other wise that in the 6 Dasher this is very simple.

I've looked hard at the 6X47 Lapua and the 6.5X47 Lapua but $100 for 100 cases puts a burr in my azzz...

I thought long and hard about the 6mmAI as my smith was talking to me hard about this cartridge. It also makes the 243AI look like a slouch when you compare the gains.

sooo... I'm in a pickle as well ( trying to bring this back to the OP's original dilemma )

What to build. I'd like a easy to load, exceptionally accurate and deer killing capable to 600 ish.

renewing the azzz whooping I took by Schatz in CO made me rethink this whole dasher thing... I remember I was just about to order a build after the nationals.. just never made it to fruition.

I shot 8 mule deer between 400 and 500 yards with this 270.

Win pre64 M70 action
22" PacNor lightweight taper barrel
Bordon Rimrock stock
Weaver Aluminum scope mounts
Medium Aluminum 4 screw rings
Leupold 2x7x33 scope
Stoney point knob
Harris HBLS 8.5" - 12.5" type S bipod
Butler Creek stretchy sling
Butler Creek objective cover
Dvorak instruments soft eye cover
_____________________
8.9 pounds unloaded

That he is...quiet and unassuming too....but definitely knows all.


I used to have a dedicated FF barrel that I FF'd several thousand Dashers out of while shooting prairie dogs. I have also FF'd with 700 X and a square of ass wipe. I find I still don't trust my brass to match duty till after the second firing either way. If you behave on pressures, and depending on the quantity, your brass could out live multiple barrels. I run 105 VLD's at 3060, and the brass will probably live forever. I ran a case test, loading the same one 15 times only neck sizing, and it never did get tight in the chamber, so I quit.


The 6x47 seems to be too inconsistent to stay competitive on a daily basis. A friend of Richards told me of 3 guys that ran 10 different barrels, and finally gave up due to that quirk. With that bigger capacity, (and the 6XC) it should be into it's own with the 115's, but they just can't compete with the Dasher/105 combo.


You're still FF'ing. eating barrels faster, and needs a L/A. If it was such a hat ticket, you'd see them all up and down the line........243/243AI or the 6.5x47 as well......


Pretty well defines the 6 Dasher.......

A) Brazilian 7mm Mauser VZ24 action stripped from rifle, $137 Century 3/2009 36 ounces
B) Lothar Walther CM 1300 taper 7mm 26" Barrel blank $185 Brownells 5/2009 53 ounces finished
C) Standard 7mmRemMag reamer, .45" drill, .47" boring bar in 4 step chambering
D) High Tech Specialties [Bansner] stock $202 Brownells 4/2008 20 ounces
E) Weaver #S45 and #S46 steel matte scope mounts $16 Brownells 2 ounces
F) Limbsaver large recoil pad untrimmed $29 Brownells 8/2008 7 ounces
G) Oxpho Blue Cold Blue
H) TIG welded bolt handle, and bolt handle extension.
I) PAWS Aluminum bottom metal for Mausers weighs $65 Brownells 3.5 ounces
J) Rear hump of trigger ground down and reduced trigger spring installed
K) Feed lips milled .51" Wide and 3.5" long
L) Bolt face opened to .532" with carbide tools on lathe and mill
M) Extractor claw relieved
N) Wooden plug epoxied into hollow cut off stock butt ~ 2 ounces
O) Headspaced to .215", not SAAMI .220"
Q) Kahles Helia 3x10x50 scope with multi zero turret $630 CDNN 6/2010 16 ounces
R) Allen buttstock pouch, $12, 6.5 ounces with two rounds
S) 9"-13" Harris swivel bipod, $100 14 ounces
T) vero vellini 3.3" wide V19023 Wide-Top Black Sling $25 5 ounces
U) Weaver quad lock 1" high extension scope rings $12 ~~ 3 ounces
V) Devcon steel putty epoxy under 1" of barrel, behind recoil lug, below tang, above bottom metal, under scope mounts.
W) Loctite 242 blue on scope mount threads
X) Rust-Oleum camouflage paint 1919 deep forest green on stock
Y) Doggone good 2"x3"x4"rear field bag $35 9 ounces
------------------------------------------
$604 + $630 scope = $1234
177 ounces = 11.06 pounds calculated
-------------------------
weighs 11 pounds on scale

150 gr Nos Bal Tip 66 gr H4350 3250 fps average.
It shoot sub moa at 100y.
But it is not consistently in a 12" ring at 600y with me shooting...yet.
Got a mule deer at >400y and an antelope at <100y in 2011 with that load.

aalf,

Hmm thank you for the informative post.

Unfortunately my questions continue.

I'm not in a financial situation to run a FF rig and then "the rig".

So I'd have to FF outta the same barrel. Will going the moly extend me some barrel life? I've never used moly but if it is the ticket to making this rig run longer on said barrel I'm all in. Are you just running molied bullets or actually preping/seasoning the barrel with moly?

Your rig is nice. Your taste is similar to mine.. I'd not go sniper fill and a contour maybe 2 thinner on the barrel...

How many round scan one expect from a barrel running 105's at 3000 fps?

What barrel length for a carry/prone hunter? Is there a magical length the dasher prefers?

TIA!

No problem. Just work up a FF load, and go shooting. You'll just have BR performance for a while. Dasher brass will end up holding around 3 1/2 grain more powder, about 150 FPS.


I run moly in everything right from the get go, with no breaking in. It won't help barrel life, but will extend cleanings, w/o loss of accuracy.


That particular gun was set up strictly for long range plinking and prairie dogs. Weight was not an issue, spotting shots was.....


Probably over 3000 of peak accuracy, as long as prairie dogs aren't on the menu.


Not really. I've got 'em from 22" to 31".

For a carry gun, I'd not do over 22".

Like this:





This one a 22", set up with .055" freebore to run the 95 VLD's. Oddly enough, evn though I've ran them to 3200, the accuracy's at 3060, same as the 105's in my match stuff.

And do it all with 34 grains of powder.......

Again, many thanks!

and oh wow.. I like that rig!

Specs?

Who's reamer do you use?

no turn or tight neck turn needed?

When you say you run moly right from the get go.. waddya mean how?

22" Rock 8 twist, Rem magnum sporter contour, McM Classic, Leupold 3.5-10 CDS in Tallys.

My reamer, .272" no turn.

I load and shoot moly plated bullet from day one.....

Hmmm....

How much free bore for 105's?

Thank you!

I have been reading up on the dasher and I have to say I am intrigued. This case is made from 6br brass correct? What does it take to form it and who makes dies for it? Is the barrel life better than the 243ai? What would you consider a life expectancy of the two, shot wise?

Is the 243ai based off of the short or long action? I see stiller offers their TAC action in both short and long with the 308 bolt face. I was thinking the long would give more room to play with length. Then I started to wonder what most people built them on.

A lot of questions I know but the more I think about this the more questions I come up with.

Thanks for all the help so far everyone and i hope I don't sound like to much of a nubie

.104's the "standard"....

Yup, made from the 6BR case. Neck up to 25, back down to 6, leaving a secondary shoulder to headspace on, then FF.

Here's a pic of making 22 Dasher. Obviously, just neck them down to 22 and FF:



Redding makes dies.

Several things come into play in barrel life, but the Dasher will smoke a 243AI in that department.

I just took off a Dasher barrel that had 1300 rounds through it, and there was no sign of fire cracking yet.

Run 1300 through an AI and see where you're at.....

clankety clank... the wheels are turnin...

.272 Neck and .104 freebore... and a pinch or 2 of RL15. Stuff the top with a 105...

Richard wrote this all down for me on a business card. I've moved since then and damn if I can find it...



First time I have heard go up then down... huh...