Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors 1955 Model 70..... BUMMED

I finally bucked up and bought the rifle I have been dreaming of owning for 20+ years. I have always wanted a model 70 in 300 H&H and finally bought one. Got it earlier this week and took it to the range last night. What a doll to shoot.......until I looked at the brass. The rifle had the (rare) factory stainless barrel without sights and some KNOTHEAD has rechambered it. What a let down.
I called the dealer I bought it from (on-line) and he was super and I am confident that we will work it out but I was so dissapointed!

To.....what? WBY??

I am not sure if it is Winchester or Weatherby. It has a very steep shoulder angle on the case like the WBY but I was thinking the weatherby case was quite a but longer.

I wonder if it has been "AI'd"???

Yeah, a bunch of .300 H&H Model 70's were rechambered during the 1950's and 60's, when everybody wanted all that fantastic extra velocity. Many ended up as .300 Weatherbys but others were rechambered to various "improved" wildcats.

Which is why M70 .300 H&H's usually bring a little more money these days, even though there were quite a few made. Rechambering was common enough to reduce the supply.

If you keep it you can have a 300 H&H barrel installed. It won't be the original Winchester barrel but it'll be in the caliber you want with your Model 70.

Yes, I can still shoot it with 300 H&H ammo but it sure screws up my brass! I have a couple of other 300 H&H's but I always wanted a model 70. Now the hunt for a new barrel begins!

So, out of curiousity, what did the dealer do for you? If you don't mind me asking. Your rifle will, ofcourse, be worth much less in "non original" condition. I saw you are looking for a good 300 H&H barrel in the classifieds, good luck. I've seen a few lately, you may also want to keep an eye out on fleabay and gunbroker.

Thanks for the tip. I will keep my eyes open but I REALLY hate flea-bay!

The dealer was very understanding and I believe honestly never knew it had been re-chambered. This just happened yesterday so he is trying to figure something out and come up with a plan. He was going to look around for a barrel.
The bad part is that if I have to send it back to him my dealer charges $30 each time I transfer it. If the dealer finds and sends me a barrel then I need to pay someone to fit it and headscape it.

I would think the .300 Winchester magnum chamber would be too short for .300 H&H? I've seen a ton of Winchester M70's and quite a few Remington M721's rechambered to .300 Weatherby and not a single one rechambered to .300 Win. mag. It might be all you need is a set of .300 Weatherby dies - and you are set. And the .300 H&H brass you've fired - all you've done is fireformed some brass for the rifle It has been common practice to use .300 H&H ammo in these rifles to fire form the brass. I have also heard that shooters were getting acceptable accuracy doing this as well. Having said all that, I do well understand your disappointment. I too, really admire the .300 H&H cartridge and would be deeply disappointed myself

You can still find them but it will probably be tough to find just the one you want. Guys used to take the 300 H&H barrels off and slap 375 H&H barrels on so there are still some around. Hopefully the dealer finds something for you and makes it right. Good luck with it...

I sure hope I can find one. I love the rifle but if I can't make it a 300 H&H then the love affair will be over.

Send it back! You wanted a 300 H&H, you didn't get it, don't settle for anything less, send it back and keep looking, they are out there...

Regrettably, that may be his best option....

I agree - sending it back is the best option. There are other .300 H&H's out there and some are for sale. Many times I have kept a gun similar to this situation with the plan to make it right again - this is usually more difficult than one originally envisioned (and trust me, this is the voice of experience - many times over). Based on that experience (frustration) I wouldn't think twice about the $30 transfer fee to send it back.

That sucks even worse. I love the rifle and it fits like a glove but it isn't exactly what I wanted. I will see what the dealer has to say. If only I could find a barrel............

+1....I've seen 300 H&H barrels on ebay go for $300.00 to $400.00 and after all of your efforts it would not be an original gun.

$300-400 for the barrel? Wow! I had figured $150-175 for a clean used one. You guys are scaring me.

If you end up keeping the rifle you may want to pm this guy and see if he ever sold his barrel:

http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6339954/Re_Pre_64_Model_70_300_H_amp_H

I know it is a long shot but I sent him a PM. Looks like my best bet is to just return the rifle. Dang!

I am confused as to what the OP found. He evidently fired the rifle using 300 H&H. The fired brass came out looking like a 300Wthby? So what cartridge is it, a 300H&H AI?. Perhaps a photo or two could clear up a lot of confusion.

Yes, it goes in as 300 H&H and comes out as 300 ???? After looking at it I would say 300 H&H AI.

I recall way back plenty of guys loading up (or using factory ammo) .300 H&H to fireform their .300 Weatherby cases. I never saw a guy doing that for a Weatherby made rifle but did for rechambered Winchesters M70's and Remington M721's. Maybe putting it another way, a .300 Weatherby is a .300 H&H AI. I think this is how Roy arrived at it.

Back to the original post: this is a factory stainless steel barrel ordered without sights? Wow - trying to find one of those would be difficult. I realize you would accept a blued standard .300 H&H barrel, but given the rarity of what you thought you were getting, I'd be quite disappointed.

Isn't the OA length on the WBY longer than the H&H?

No...for practical purposes they are the same length. In fact, the H&H is longer by .025" (2.850 for H&H vs. 2.825 for Wby).

Well, I guess I better see if a Wby round will chamber or at least have a chamber cast made.

Given you wanted a .300 H&H and you know it isn't that, why have a chamber cast made? I'd be boxing it back up if it were me. Not trying to badger you but it just seems you know everything you needed to know: it isn't what you wanted.

If you can negoiate a decent discount from the seller why not just keep it and use it the way it is? If it's a Weatherby it's actually a better, all be it not by much, round than the H&H.

By stainless I assume you mean that it is a blued stainless barrel correct? Not a stainless colored barrel. I've never seen nor heard of a M70 with a stainless colored barrel. Most of the varmints had stainless barrels that were coated with a certain metal and then blued.

Recall his original post where he noted he had been dreaming of owning a .300 H&H for over 20 years. I had an extremely nice Remington M721 .300 H&H that was completely original in all respects, very high condition but had been rechambered to the Weatherby. I had in mind to find an original barrel for it. Never happened and sold it several years later.

Check with E.R. Shaw @ ershawbarrels.com

This one is on the dreamy side:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=305718790

Its $5200 for that rifle.

Personally I'd rather just have a new 300 H&H barrel installed for $600.

That isn't any $5200.00 rifle. Maybe in 30-40 years...

There are several on Cabela's. This one looks real good $2199.00...

300 H&H Mag.
Barrel 26"
Weight 7 3/4 LB
Trigger Original
Stock Checkered Walnut Pistol Grip
Stock Dimensions 13 5/8" LOP
Fore End Checkered Walnut
Butt Checkered Steel Butt Plate
Metal Condition Very Good
Wood Condition Good
Bore Condition Excellent
Manufacture Date S/N 297XXX
Sights Hooded Front-Flip Up Notch Rear
Status available
Gun Library Wheeling, WV

Dave Riffle Gun Sales has one that is 99% for $2,895

If someone wants a vintage .300 H&H which looks all original, here's one. You will need to overlook the fact that it is not a Winchester

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=305833635

I think I have the twin to that one at home. That is what I have used until I could afford a model 70.

UPDATE: The dealer had said he would figure out what to do but won't return my calls or answer my e-mails. It has only been 4 days but now I am starting to get nervous. I may have to take a road trip to Oregon I guess.

Would have sent it back immediately....

I figured I would at least give him a chance to make it right.

+1, no way in hell is that a $5200.00 rifle....

Yep, it is customary to have a 3 day non fire inspection period...

I called him about it right away after I shot it, three days after I got it to see how he wanted to handle it. I guess I have my answer now.

Internet sales are a roll of the dice - especially if you have not dealt with the seller before. The odds are generally good but every once in a while you get burned. At least you did get a gun out of the deal. Not exactly what you wanted but something.

By the way, I would enjoy seeing pictures of the rifle,

Find out for sure what it is, post some pictures and put it on the classifieds. I bet you can easily get your investment back.

I guess it is time to leave him some feedback on gunbroker.

No.. Not if you bought it from a dealer to begin with.. You can send it back w/o an FFL or going through any dealer..

I sure hope you get it resolved..

3 voice mails and 2 e-mails. It doesn't look good.

I'm doubting this - this was his dream gun (I've never managed to find a dream gun at a bargain price) and I'm thinking the seller had it priced for being an all original and collectable gun. With the chamber alteration it is not original and the collector status has been greatly diminished. It is a shooter now and possibly a nice one, but I cannot be optimistic about the return on investment

I suggest sending it back. The seller just dumped a POS on you and was probably aware of what it was. I myself would never trust any model 70 that I could not verify it's origin. You learned a good lesson. If that guy gives you a problem taking it back, post it here.

Given the seller has quit responding to any form of communication, a buyer's thoughts quickly jump to wondering if they send the rifle back, will they be out BOTH the rifle and the money

I can't tell you what to do. Regardless of all the advise here you're the one that needs to settle on a plan to get your money back. But what I would do is consult an attorney and have him write a letter explaining a few general details about the upcoming lawsuit. Bing, bang, boom. Not being overly critical but you're overloaded with advise and underloaded with decision making. You've been a nice guy and that just doesn't pay off when someone genuinly screws you. FYI

All good except this: what if the seller is in a different state? Then you have to find an atty in HIS state, and be prepared to drive/fly there when/if it goes to court..

What's the cost then? (BTDT, learned a lot.. ) In my case, I just resold the pos and was lucky enough to only lose $150 overall..

For what it's worth, at this point given you have sold the rifle and lost $150, I would write the seller and suggest I was about to get my lawyer involved and give him one last option before I did so - to rebate $150 and he would be in the clear.

Sorry to hear the problems. My 55 Model 70 in 300H&H was passed down to me. Just a standard grade rifle, but I got all 5 of the boxes of ammo, 2 1/2 had been shot. The old Silvertips with the Grizzley on the box. I have seen several Model 70's and Remington 721's that looked right but had been rechambered to something else. Many could fire the original 300H&H round. As a dream rifle I would be not happy. Not even sure I would know how to tell a SS barrel from a standard steel one, perhaps a magnet? Standard barrels do come up now and then, don't think I have ever seen a stainless barrel, or for that matter a rifle with a factory stainless barrel. Hope all works out well for you.

The stainless barrels don't have the "bulge" for the rear site and they are not dovetailed or drilled and tapped for any sites. At least that is what I was told.

Just wondering....any resolution with the seller?

I'm curious as well....keep us posted please..... Can you post some pics of the rifle. Thanks...

I don't know what your local FFL guy is doing, but it is my understanding that once a gun is transferred to you, you can send it for repairs, etc. direct without having to re-transfer it.

DF