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Originally Posted by Foxbat
Originally Posted by Penobscot_99
Burglarized multiple times and still the dumb phuc doesn't know how to burglar-proof his house?? --- and he was waiting for them down in the basement?? --- can you say "set-up!"
No warning - "hey, I've got a gun and just called 911" - then (his own words) he "executes" them!
Something stinks!
Something stinks!
Something stinks!
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I hate criminals as much as the next guy - but most of you boys sure jumped on the scumbag wagon kinda early - in my opinion.


Illinois logic I guess. Down here, I'm not obligated to burglar proof my home, nor am I required to warn you and give you a chance to shoot me, if you are armed, before I fire.
same here...

Quote
The "setup" claim is just plain stupid. He heard the glass break upstairs and waited until they came down, what the hell do you think he should do, run up the stairs saying "hello!"?
How true..


Quote
That said, he going to do jail time and deservedly so, but right up to the point of the kill shots and admitting them, he did nothing wrong.
Yeppers...


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Assuming ScoutmasterRick's posted account were the actual facts as they happened and, without knowing MN's criminal statutes, I suspect this old boy is in trouble. Assuming MN has Castle Doctrine and someone here can affirm or negate that assertion, but let's suppose they do the general idea is to protect oneself in the home. OK so far. I suspect a rifle shot to the lower abdomen as decribed in the account to both was incapacitating enough as it was reported to have sent both burglars tumbling down the stairs suggesting loss of the ability to walk.

It could be argued at that moment the Castle Doctrine was fulfilled and further action was not warranted by the homeowner again assuming neither assailant had further access to weapons or other means of harm. Then, according to the account, the homeowner actively chose a second weapon and executed each assailant rather than following what is likely in MN a legal duty to provide aid via calling police and an ambulance which he seems not to have done.

Assuming the above I maintain my position this guy is in a lot of trouble. I think it would have been ruled a clean shoot had he waited for a better opportunity to provide a single killing shot to each of the baddies rather than wounding them.

So you see gentlemen, shot placement is everything!!


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Originally Posted by Foxbat

Illinois logic I guess. Down here, I'm not obligated to burglar proof my home, nor am I required to warn you and give you a chance to shoot me, if you are armed, before I fire.

The "setup" claim is just plain stupid. He heard the glass break upstairs and waited until they came down, what the hell do you think he should do, run up the stairs saying "hello!"?


That said, he going to do jail time and deservedly so, but right up to the point of the kill shots and admitting them, he did nothing wrong.
+1 Same in Florida. In Florida, if someone breaks into your home, they are presumed to intend imminent severe bodily harm to those inside, and those inside are privileged to treat them that way.

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I'm wondering if the girl waited out side and then went in when her boyfriend never came back out.
Regardless, crazy story.


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I wonder if the guy was fencing stolen property or sellin drugs. Lotta breakins. Had to execute witnesses. Needed time to get rid of stuff.

Or maybe he was an angry nut.


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Originally Posted by Barkoff
"just a good clean finishing shot". Geezus! Talk about breaking into the wrong house.


Jeesus...no kidding!


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Originally Posted by whelennut
Hard to believe a teenage girl would go down stairs after hearing gunfire coming from the basement. Even stranger for her to laugh after taking a bullet in the hip. I think these people were on drugs maybe all of them.
He does have one advantage, they can't tell their side of the story.
whelennut


I agree. You don't keep breaking into a house for "fun"...and if your house keeps getting broke into and you DON'T call the popo, there's a reason. My guess, the reason is drugs.


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Updated stories:

From Star Tribune

Quote
Little Falls teen shooting deaths called 'cold-blooded�

LITTLE FALLS, MINN. - Insisting the case crosses the line from self-defense to a cold-blooded double execution, Morrison County authorities filed second-degree murder charges Monday against a 64-year-old man who killed two teenage cousins after they'd broken into his home on Thanksgiving.

This woodsy central Minnesota town of 8,000 was jolted as the gruesome details spilled out in a criminal complaint, alleging Byron David Smith put a handgun under the chin of wounded and gasping 18-year-old Haile Kifer for what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot."

Smith, who according to a friend and a relative had endured previous break-ins, sat shackled in an orange jail jumpsuit as County Attorney Brian Middendorf accused him of "cold-blooded murder of two teenagers under circumstances that are appalling and far beyond any self-defense claim."

Sheriff Michel Wetzel said Monday that he believes the teenagers were committing a burglary but said Smith's reaction went beyond legal protections of Minnesota law that allows crime victims to use reasonable force to protect themselves and their property during a felony.

"We understand and respect that right exists, but what happened in this case went further," Wetzel said. "The law doesn't permit you to execute somebody when there's no possible way the crime can continue."

And the law requires people to notify police, said Wetzel, who learned about the shooting from a neighbor the next day. The sheriff said the reason Smith gave for never calling police was "it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to bother us on a holiday."

Hamline University School of Law professor Joseph Olson, who has studied self-defense laws, noted that the number of Smith's shots will make it difficult for him to claim self-defense in court.

"I think the first shot is justified," Olson said. "After the person is no longer a threat because they're seriously wounded, the application of self-defense is over."

High bail set

Judge Douglas P. Anderson set bail at $2 million or $1 million with conditions that Smith, a retired U.S. State Department employee, surrender his passport and firearms and not leave the state. Prosecutors cited Smith's years of international travel to Moscow, Bangkok and Beijing among the reasons for the high bail.

Smith's attorney, Gregory Larson, did not immediately contest the bail and a jail worker said Smith informed the staff he doesn't plan to post bail.

About a dozen friends and relatives of the victims attended Smith's 10-minute hearing, including 16-year-old Serina Poppen, who wore a brown Little Falls Auto and Transmission sweatshirt. Nicholas Brady, 17, the first shooting victim, lent her the sweatshirt a month ago when she was cold and the two had dated in recent months.

"No amount of bail is fair and no amount will bring them back," Poppen said. "He took it way too far. He could have just showed them his gun and told them to sit still until he called police."

Tessa Ruth, Brady's aunt, also was at the hearing and acknowledged outside the court room that "it wasn't right to be in the house and, yes, he has a right to defend himself, but not to execute them like that."

John Lange, who describes himself as Smith's best friend, was in the courtroom and visited Smith in jail.

"Byron is holding up just fine, but he shouldn't be in there, " Lange said. "You have the right to defend your home, and he's been through hell."

Lange said Smith's house has been broken into six times, although authorities says they have only one report of a break-in, in October.

"They tortured him and targeted him, and it's not good," Lange said. "If you've been broken into one time, that would be enough. But it's terrible."

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, said about $10,000 worth of guns, electronic gear and cash were stolen in October.

Wetzel, the sheriff, declined to discuss what was taken in the October theft and said they have no suspects. He also declined to say whether the teens knew Smith, insisting the investigation is ongoing.

'I want him dead'

According to the complaint, Smith told police that he heard someone breaking into his house at noon on Thanksgiving. He showed police the window he says Brady and his cousin, Kifer, used to enter his house, which he said had been broken into several times before. Lange, his friend, said he kept his valuables downstairs.

Smith told police he armed himself with a rifle and a handgun and waited downstairs until he saw the first person's feet, then legs, then hips.

He said he fired and the first victim, Brady, tumbled down the stairs. While Brady looked up at him, he shot him in the face, according to the complaint.

"I want him dead," he told investigators.

He put Brady's body on a tarp and dragged him into his basement workshop and sat back down in his chair.

Several minutes later, he heard more footsteps and saw Kifer coming down the stairs. He waited until he saw her hips, then fired. She also fell down the stairs, but then his rifle jammed and Kifer laughed.

That angered Smith. "If you're trying to shoot someone and they laugh at you, you go again," he told police.

He then pulled out the .22-caliber, nine-shot revolver that he was wearing, and fired "more shots than I needed to." He dragged Kifer into the workshop, placed her next to Brady and noticed she was still gasping for air.

"Smith stated at this point he placed the handgun under the woman's chin and shot her ... up into the cranium ... a good clean finishing shot."

He told police neither of the teens were armed but he feared they might have had a weapon.

He asked a neighbor the next morning if he knew any lawyers, and that neighbor apparently called police.

Larson, Smith's lawyer, declined to discuss the case as he left the hearing, saying he needed more time to respond to the county attorney's accusations.

Middendorf, the county attorney, asked community members "not to rush to judgment. This is a terrible tragedy for the whole community," he said. "And Mr. Smith is entitled to a fair process."

'Keep out'

At Smith's house, where a "keep out" sign blocked the driveway, kids drove by who knew the victims.

They remembered two teenage cousins who were inseparable and texted each other thousands of times.

"Nick was always energetic," said Alex Janey, 18. "They had so much more to give and to just shoot them like that, it just isn't right."

Other kids rumored that drugs might have been involved, a subject authorities declined to get into, saying the case is ongoing.

Poppen said her close friend, who lent her the sweatshirt she was wearing, "was always hilarious and lived for the moment."

Throughout the town of Little Falls, stunned residents weighed in.

"This ...doesn't happen in our community," said Liberty Nunn, 20, a friend of Brady's sister. "If it was 3 o'clock in the morning, I'm a shoot first and ask questions later kind of person.

"But this was the middle of Thanksgiving Day and to not bother to call the cops? It's just not right to take a life. ... He got to shut the basement door and go on with his Thanksgiving," Nunn said, "while two families were grieving."

Staff writers Pam Louwagie and Joy Powell contributed to this report. Curt Brown 612-673-4767


And kstp.com

Quote
Complaint Reveals Details in Double Shooting of Little Falls Teens

A 64-year-old man has been charged in the deadly shooting of two Little Falls teens.

According to authorities, Byron Smith of Belle Prairie Township is charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of 17-year-old Nicholas Brady and 18-year-old Haile Kifer.

The Sheriff's office says Smith shot and killed Brady and Kifer after the two broke into his home.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel says they believe this was a burglary.

According to the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in his basement on Thanksgiving when he heard two people breaking into his home upstairs. He said he heard a window break.

He saw the first pair of legs walk down the stairs and shot the man, later identified as Brady in the legs. He then shot him in the face.

He dragged Brady's body on a tarp to an office room in the basement, and returned to his chair and sat back down.

A few minutes later another person came down the stairs. He said he shot the woman, later identified as Kifer.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again, and the gun jammed. He said she laughed at him, but "It was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting." He pulled out another gun and shot her in the chest and then under the chin.

According to authorities he told investigators, "If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again." He said he feared the two teenagers had weapons. Authorities say the teenagers did not have weapons.

Smith acknowledged he had "Fired more shots than (he) needed to."

Smith said he then dragged that body into the room where the other body was. He said he noticed the woman was still gasping, and he fired another shot.

Smith never called 911. He called a neighbor Friday morning asking if the neighbor knew any lawyers.

A neighbor contacted police Friday afternoon.

Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel says, "The reason Smith said he didn't call in right away was because it was Thanksgiving and he didn't want to trouble us on a holiday."

Authorities say when deputies arrived at Smith's home, he answered the door he told deputies he had shot the teens.

Right now Minnesota law allows the use of deadly force from inside your home if it's necessary. According to Wetzel, "This case went further than that. The law does not permit you to execute someone after the threat is gone."

The county attorney Brian Middendorf said, this is a controversial case. "I would not ask that people rush to judgment. Smith is entitled to a fair process."

Smith's bail was set at a $2 million unconditional bond or a $1 million bond with the condition he cannot leave the state, and would have to surrender his passport and guns.

Smith told investigators he was fearful after several break-ins at his remote home in Little Falls, a central Minnesota town of 8,000 people. The sheriff's office had only one report of a break-in, on Oct. 27. Smith reported losing thousands of dollars in cash, gold coins, two guns, photo equipment and jewelry.

Schools in Little Falls, about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis, made counselors available, though classes weren't in session Monday. In nearby Pillager, where classes were in session, a few students sought help from school counselors and local clergy members available at the school Monday morning, said Superintendent Chuck Arns.

Smith is expected back in court on Dec. 17.

Authorities say this is still an active and ongoing investigation.




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The legality/illegality of the killings aside, I can't help but wonder about the mindsets of everyone involved.

I wonder why the kids were going into that guy's home? It seems like he would be a known weirdo and that nobody would mess with him? What did they expect to find in his home that made it worth it? They just didn't wander in through an unlocked door, they broke glass to gain entry. That took some serious guts--unless they had (mistakenly) determined that he wasn't home. But still, why that particular house?

As for the shooter, the "good clean finishing shot" comment is really creepy, as is putting bodies on a tarp and dragging them into the next room. Wow. That is absolutely stone cold. That guy has serious issues.

It's a bad deal all around.


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Originally Posted by FVA
I'm wondering if the girl waited out side and then went in when her boyfriend never came back out.
Regardless, crazy story.


And didnt the story say after he shot her, she was laughing at him? Phuggin society these days.


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Originally Posted by rost495
Originally Posted by FVA
I'm wondering if the girl waited out side and then went in when her boyfriend never came back out.
Regardless, crazy story.


And didnt the story say after he shot her, she was laughing at him? Phuggin society these days.


Quote
Smith said he tried to shoot her again, and the gun jammed. He said she laughed at him, but "It was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting." He pulled out another gun and shot her in the chest and then under the chin.


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he said she was laughing at him

I'm guessing this guy has no shortage of perceived slights against him


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Sounds like he was just an older tired man, with nothing to lose. He just finally had enough.


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Yep. Don't mess with old dudes with nothing left to lose. Darwin works in mysterious ways. Maybe the wailing by the families of these pooor victims will serve as a lesson to others who might have similar ideas... Nawww, I doubt it. <shrug>


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Yep, that's the first place I'd go to - the basement - if I was to burglarize a home! Yep, that's where everybody keeps their valuables! Duuh?!?
_________________________
Somethin' ain't right about this ?story?
_________________________
Just shot at legs???? Coming down the stairs - could've been his brother for all he knew....... Just sayin'
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Illi noise ain't much different - so ya'll can climb down from that high perch.
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another update



"Investigators were working late Tuesday to determine whether the two teenage cousins slain during a home burglary in Little Falls, Minn., on Thanksgiving Day committed a similar crime just hours before the fatal shootings.

Preliminary findings suggest that Nick Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were involved in another break-in Wednesday night, 6 miles south of the home where Byron Smith claims he shot them in self-defense, said Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel. Smith, 64, a retired U.S. State Department worker, is charged with second-degree murder in the double shooting, which Wetzel has characterized as "cold-blooded" executions carried out after the teens were disabled by initial shots.

In the latest development, investigators are piecing together evidence recovered from a red Mitsubishi Eclipse that Brady had been driving, and which was discovered Friday parked a block away and around the corner from Smith's property, 3 miles north of Little Falls.

That same car was seen in a driveway last Wednesday evening 3 miles south of Little Falls, in the vicinity of a house belonging to Richard L. Johnson, a retired Little Falls High School teacher who had been in Spain until Sunday evening.

Wetzel confirmed that deputies who had been called to the Johnson neighborhood about the car identified it as one used by Brady, but not registered to him.

The sheriff also said that Brady had walked up to the car, was questioned by the deputies and released. The burglary at Johnson's home was at that time undiscovered, he said.

"There are some preliminary indications that the Johnson burglary may have been committed by the Brady boy and the Kifer girl, but it's too early now to say definitively, but tomorrow morning [Wednesday] we'll have some more information and determine whether they're connected," Wetzel said.

Johnson said the items he reported stolen included less than $5 worth of pennies kept in a box on his dresser, silver and copper coins from foreign countries, and an assortment of prescription medication, including drugs for diabetes and controlling cholesterol. Johnson, 68, said the thieves had broken a sliding glass door at his house.

Wetzel could not immediately confirm whether any of Johnson's property was found in the car that Brady and Kifer left parked near Smith's house before they were slain. He said investigators are tracing an assortment of items.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith of California, whom Byron Smith called after the shootings, said his brother reported about $10,000 worth of items stolen in an Oct. 27 burglary, including guns, a camera and $3,000 to $4,000 in cash.

He said the Oct. 27 break-in was the latest in a string of six to eight before the shootings Thanksgiving Day.

The sheriff said he did not have the burglary report regarding the late October burglary that Byron Smith reported.

"I don't have the reports in front of me to indicate precisely what was found. I do know they found quite a bit of evidence in their vehicle that was parked near the Smith place," the sheriff said late Tuesday. "We're trying to investigate whether it might have come from the Johnson burglary."

Johnson, who taught 32 years at Little Falls High, said he didn't know Kifer or Brady, though he knew one of their siblings.

"The whole thing is very sad that they lost their lives," he said. "In the same instance, if they hadn't been breaking into houses, they'd be alive."

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looks like the two Darwin award winners were serial miscreants.

Smith might be up for a community service award afterall.


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This is one of the reasons I don't miss Minnesota at all...

poor judgement call maybe...

crooks as far as I am concerned... shoot'em and tell the cops they can drop by and pick up the bodies at their convenience... because they aren't going anywhere..

and these two were under 20 yrs old... seems that they are a product of their environment...the parent or parents are to blame for them turning out like this..

at least they are out of the gene pool before they have a chance to add to it..


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The girl looks pretty hot. They must have gotten tangled up in drugs.

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Originally Posted by dogcatcher223
The girl looks pretty hot.
x2

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