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Is there a range of "good" relative capacity numbers?
I take it from the discussion above less is better? Well, good for what? Less is not necessarily better. It's kind of like asking whether red is better than blue or purple. If you play with the numbers, you can see values ranging from about 0.6 for a .22LR through somewhere in the twos and threes for most modern mainstream centerfire rifle cartridges, like .308W, and on up over the fives and higher for hot magnums like .30-.378, etc. In general, the lower values are for mild, modest velocity cartridges with mild muzzle blast, stingy powder consumption, and long barrel life. .22 Hornet, 32-20, and 30-30 fit in this category. It's not hard to find a good use for them. At the other end of the spectrum are your hot magnums. They're loud, cranky, expensive, and burn out barrels quickly. But if you want to kill an elk with one shot very much over six hundred yards, this is where you should direct your attention.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Bag it.. Ride it like you stole it and put it away wet  W
Last edited by woofer; 04/27/12.
"I would build one again, if it were not for my 350RM (grin)."
MtnHtr
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Why a 280 Ai? Seems the expense would be comparable to the 6/06 or 6.5/06. Why not the standard 284 win? Hell i think you could drive 168's around 3000 +. Maybe 180's around 2900. If you used a long action you might get 3000 with 180's, depending on COAL. The sky is the limit on opinion. Wildcats and standard rounds are there for all of us to choose whats best for what we intend there use. I promise that a dead elk from your 280 AI is no more dead than the one shot from my 7 rm or 284 win.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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This is my elk experience with the 162 Amax.
Hunter... My 12 yr old son
Rifle... Rem BDL/Sendero parts gun
Cartridge... 7 STW
Muzzle Vel... 3240 fps
Impact Vel... 2430 fps
Range...558 yrds
Medium sized Roosevelt cow elk
The cow was broadside. The bullet entered the crease behind the shoulder and hitting one rib. The bullet expanded and continued on till it contacted the lower edge of the spine between the shoulders leaving a half moon of spine missing. Lungs shredded!!
Elk's reaction at impact was instant collapse with a head bounce.
The big issue in my book was I couldn't find any damage to the far side of the rib cage. Basically after hitting the spine the bullet broke up enough that nothing was heavy enough to leave the far lung and impact the other side.
Did it work in this case? YES.
Do I consider it an all around use elk bullet? Certainly not in a magnum application.
Will I continue to use it in the 500+ yrd broadside application? YES.
Good post....maybe the most informative one on the thread.Great description of the damage. Sounds like the bullet had plenty of expansion for the distance. But given the distance (558 yards),and the fact that the bullet lacked the integrity to make it to the off side even after velocity had fallen off a good deal,I can't help but wonder how it would have done into a shoulder at close range (pick a distance). Nice if a guy can cherry pick broadside shots,but that kind of performance would be enough to put me off the bullet for general purpose elk hunting for good. Did someone already say the 7 Rem Mag is the way to go here?
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 18,881
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'd choose none of the above. It would be either a .260 or a 6.5 Creedmor. Why ? Because I need to shoot it alot. I find it fascinating that two of the more prominent long range hunters who post here, Scenarshooter and John Burns, tend to go for the lighter kicking rounds. Both of them shoot alot. I believe Scenarshooter posted once that he's probably fired about 10,000 155 gr. Lapua Scenar bullets alone. That and he, and John, practice in the same country, with the same conditions where he hunts. Something I wish I could do.
You gotta be able to hit'em and hit'em right, first.
You can argue all you want about punching them vs. pounding them. I'll take punching them in just the right place anyday. E
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Joined: Aug 2005
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After shooting in some variable winds a few weeks ago at 775 yards, I have to say the 7 Rem compared to some smaller rounds like my 257 Roy has a lot going for it. The 7 Rem we have has a long throat setup for 180 bergers and it just stomped my Roy. Has me wanting to retube the flamer again.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Outfitter
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Dibs on the 257 Bee barrel! 
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 145
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Campfire Member
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I have shot elk with a 270 Win, 308 Norma Mag, and 340 Weatherby. Back when I wonted a rifle with more energy than the 270 Win a 308 Norma Mag was a leader in 1000 Yd shooting. So I got a sporter weight 308 NM . In the areas where I hunted in Wyo and Colo I have never taked a long shot. The shortest shot was about 50 yards and the longest was about 300 yards. I have a 264 Win Mag for mule deer and two 7 MM Rem Mags which I have not shot. After looking at reloading data and bullet drop and energy of various cartridges at 500 yards I could get by very well with a 7 MM Rem Mag, but it wasent made when I got the 270 Win or 308 Norma Mag. Im a old timer and I like to read about you long shooter and the rifles you like.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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************************
NRA Benefactor member
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How about the 6.5x68? It's european and it's supposed to equal or better the 264 Win Mag without the belt.
Thoughts?
"The end of the human race will be that it will eventually die of civilization"-- Emerson
Support outdoor sports and our hunting-conservationist heritage; hunt with high morals and ethical standards
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 103
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I'd choose none of the above. It would be either a .260 or a 6.5 Creedmor. Why ? Because I need to shoot it alot. I find it fascinating that two of the more prominent long range hunters who post here, Scenarshooter and John Burns, tend to go for the lighter kicking rounds. Both of them shoot alot. I believe Scenarshooter posted once that he's probably fired about 10,000 155 gr. Lapua Scenar bullets alone. That and he, and John, practice in the same country, with the same conditions where he hunts. Something I wish I could do.
You gotta be able to hit'em and hit'em right, first.
You can argue all you want about punching them vs. pounding them. I'll take punching them in just the right place anyday. E You'd really go with, that canon, the .260. Just go with the .243 has less recoil than the .260. It's all about shot placement anyway. Start getting insecure about the size of your bullet and it won't end at the .260, you'll then be thinking you want more with the 7mm-08. 
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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After shooting in some variable winds a few weeks ago at 775 yards, I have to say the 7 Rem compared to some smaller rounds like my 257 Roy has a lot going for it. The 7 Rem we have has a long throat setup for 180 bergers and it just stomped my Roy. Has me wanting to retube the flamer again.
30338:  The 7 Rem Mag wins this horse race by more than a length....any 264 advantage is gonna be based on number crunching because the 7mm will get there with more bullet, more frontal area,and the capacity to do more "work"; and beat out the 6.5's today for the same reasons it beat them out in 1962.....140 gr of bullet vs 175 to 180(today).To those who say this does not matter I say "phooey"... No ballistic table will convince me otherwise. 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,008
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
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Bob.....you could say the same for a 30 caliber 200 versus the 7mm 175 , or a 33 250 beats the 200 gr 30.....its all about how much recoil a person wants to deal with
I find the 264 more comfortable to shoot by a fair bit than any bigger magnum
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Since its introduction, the 7MM Rem Mag has virtually rewritten hunting manuals. In knowledge of youth, when I knew everything, I tried to convince myself that a .270 Win was a better choice. My old .270 Win did do its job. But as wisdom, or seasoning, or any other euphemism for age began to creep up on me, I took another look at the 7MM Rem Mag. I'm glad I did. There's long range music in .284 bullets to the tune of deep penetration and harmonic accuracy. I've been dancin' the cartridge jig ever since.
The 7MM Rem Mag: magnum opus of hunting cartridges!
The song will remain the same.
R
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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Bob.....you could say the same for a 30 caliber 200 versus the 7mm 175 , or a 33 250 beats the 200 gr 30.....its all about how much recoil a person wants to deal with
SD: Of course..Given......never meant to imply your analogy is without merit. There is an advantage to more bullet weight and caliber,but the gain comes at an expense,and how much a person wants to put up with is the issue for many. I find almost any 7mm Magnum recoil pretty trifling in a rifle of moderate weight...300's less so anymore.The 264 kicks less, of course,because bullets are lighter....there is the tradeoff,and for me the balance point is the additional bullet weight of the 7mm's...not quite 30 cal, but close, yet heavier by a margin than the 6.5's. Again..tradeoff
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Bob, My 8.5 twisted 7mm Rock barrel gets here on Tuesday. My buddy bought my 257 Roy barrel and this one is heading to smith soon. Going to throat it for 3.49 OAL with 160 accubond which gets a 180 berger out to around 3.51. Thinking I can also get to lands with 168 berger but just barely. One of the 3 will perk I am guessing. And should have back in time for fall.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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30338: That sounds good! I hear the Rock is a great barrel....I hope it shoots but not much to guess about there.Good barrel and the 7RM is an accurate cartridge. You should be GTG!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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7LRM is an unreal round, gun wrecks has the right idea and it would be a perfect 7mm if not for one thing, the barrel life is down right pathetic. I've never met a person that said they shot a 7LRM 1000 times without the accuracy getting worse and worse, maximum life expectancy of this caliber before your barrel falls of your gun is only 2000 rounds.
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Campfire Outfitter
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You've gotta be kidding me....
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