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Posts: 574
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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No what I am eluding to is that the FBI was very aware of what they were doing.
Seriously, look up the facts. Yep after an FBI investigation that includes questioning, they just burn your file when they don't find anything. They erase their memories.....so much so that they(FBI) have to ask citizens to identify the very individuals that they investigated two years ago.
I would be willing to bet they've been under surveillance ever since. At least electronically. They knew about their posts on the radical forum. They knew who they visited in Russia (radical muslims) Hell the RUSSIAN government wanted to know who the older brother was two years ago because THEY knew who he was visiting.
But you folks are sold on the story CNN and FN are selling lol.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4 |
Cursory knowledge of the "Enemy Combatatant" rules might avoid you falling into the "moron" category...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
What might be the operational point in this case is that there is plenty enough physical evidence to convict regardless and that the need to learn if there are any other t's from the same radicalized group. Police work is based on gathering evidence for convictions. Counter-terrorist work is based on gathering timely intelligence to stop more horrors. The criminal justice system is just not adequate to fulfill that particular need. Add to that, there is a disgustingly strong drive of political correctness that seriously compounds that particular failing. My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 574
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Cursory knowledge of the "Enemy Combatatant" rules might avoid you falling into the "moron" category... Was Timothy McVeigh an "enemy Combatant"? He wasn't tried as one....
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 574 |
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds. Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
Something else about Miranda:
The primary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to place restraints upon the behavior of police officers. For example, a suspect says he doesn't want to talk; the police have to stop asking him questions.
A secondary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to punish the police (and the prosecution) for example, if the police continue to question a suspect after he says he doesn't want to talk.
The nature of that punishment can be to deprive the prosecution of the use of answers to questions asked after the suspect says he doesn't want to talk.
(Damnit; I knew if I tried to simplify it, I'd leave a bunch of stuff out. above, I'm talking about the right to remain silent part of Miranda. There are other issues, too.)
- Tom
You've hit on most of it but I'll add that not having a lawyer present during questioning is another. A lawyer would advise his client to remain silent and not answer any questions that would incriminate him. I don't have a problem with this terrorist not being Mirandized. There's more than enough evidence to convict him and anything he says up until he has been read his rights would not have to submitted as testimony in his trial. That's the way to avoid controversy and legal issues in convicting him, due process and the right to a fair trial. Use the public safety provision to question him about other threats and then not present that info during trial. Never say never but I don't think you find a juror that won't find him guilty with just the evidence that's come out so far.
Last edited by fish head; 04/22/13. Reason: better wording
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,642 Likes: 4 |
Timothy McVeigh was pre-9/11 and it was clearly an all domestic operation. Different world today and we cannot afford to ensure there's not another component to this. Either way, he'll get due process. There is enough evidence to execute him no matter where he gets tried, with or without Miranda. In my view intelligence exploitation should be paramount at this time.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds. Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits. You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 574
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 574 |
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds. Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits. You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach. Oh so you admit to being a complete [bleep] moron? You are no better than the people you believe "you're holier than". [bleep] garbage.... Why don't you hop on a plane and go fight the crusade......oh wait never mind, you'd rather act like a tough guy...lol
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1 |
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives. Nonsense. Calling this guy a "criminal" is typical liberal pablum. A "criminal" usually commit a crime for personal gain and lucre. This guy meets and exceeds all the criteria of a TERRORIST and he more than qualifies under the enemy combatant clause. Keep him isolated and interrogate him until every possible intelligence nuggets can be carved out of him. Who cares about a conviction at this moment in time when the national interest could be at stake. Super Max, why do they perform executions there or are you against capital punishment too. Send his ass to Guantanamo. A terrorist bomber is nothing new in America; goes back a long ways. EVERY last one who was an american citizen has been treated as a common criminal and put through the CJ system. How do justify usurping someone's civil rights?
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Timothy McVeigh was pre-9/11 and it was clearly an all domestic operation.. It doesn't matter what it was before or after, or if it was a "domestic operation". The suspect is still an American citizen just like you. I just love how all the jellyfish believe the "play dumb" tactic of the FBI....lol. I also cant believe the level of stupidity of you idiots that are OPENLY AND WILLINGLY wanting the suspects civil rights to be taken away. Guess what, same as with the 2nd amend, you give an inch they'll take a mile. Ya give away this guy's rights. Then maybe five years down the road none of us will have them.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
Due Process - Build a temporary gallows out in center field of Fenway Park and due process his butt. Don't care if he is 19, he has it coming.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much" Teddy Roosevelt
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1 |
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
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The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed. The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much" Teddy Roosevelt
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Joined: Feb 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
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The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed. The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by. Well of course, they got what they wanted. They wanted the explosion. Now they can run through more unconstitutional legislation and everyone like you people will applaud it. (Like the Patriot Act, NDAA, ect). Holder was in charge of one of the biggest false flag events this country has ever seen (Operation Fast and Furious). It was a false flag to take 2nd amendment rights away, or at a minimum enforce restrictions.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,674 Likes: 1 |
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed. The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by. That may be so. I don�t know what the venue will be, whether it�s Massachusetts law or federal. Obviously the crime happened in Mass, but terrorism generally falls to the FBI so I assume that becomes a federal crime. Mass doesn�t have a death penalty, but the Fed does. My bet is, this will string on for an awfully long time, but in the end he�ll fry�couldn�t happen to a nicer guy.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,269 |
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds. Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits. You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach. Oh so you admit to being a complete [bleep] moron? You are no better than the people you believe "you're holier than". [bleep] garbage.... Why don't you hop on a plane and go fight the crusade......oh wait never mind, you'd rather act like a tough guy...lol I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,659 |
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed. The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by. That may be so. I don�t know what the venue will be, whether it�s Massachusetts law or federal. Obviously the crime happened in Mass, but terrorism generally falls to the FBI so I assume that becomes a federal crime. Mass doesn�t have a death penalty, but the Fed does. My bet is, this will string on for an awfully long time, but in the end he�ll fry�couldn�t happen to a nicer guy. Hope you are right.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much" Teddy Roosevelt
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 574
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
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I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
Oh Im sorry, Im not a religious nut job, Dickhead. Nor do I get off on the same [bleep] you do (im sorry you cant let go of the unjust war you may or may not have fought in). I keep the Peace, You spew hate, dickhead. You're so [bleep] stupid you cant even put two and two together. The FBI stated they had no idea who these two were. Yet they had be under surveillance for at least two years....BY THE FBI. lol
Last edited by JWP58; 04/22/13.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,999 |
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything. Not 100% correct, amigo. Long ago I was locked up for 72 hours on "suspicion," whatever that means. Maybe the law has changed in that area now, I don't know. O, they, Albuquerque, NM cops, finally admitted that I was the wrong guy but I already knew that.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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