According to reports in the news over here, following the arrest of the Boston bomber, he was not mirandized, and they went on state this often happened when your Police felt there was an immenent danger to the public..
I read that, and never really thought any more of it..I then notice in todays papers a statement attributed to the FBI saying not only was he not mirandized at the point of his arrest, he won't be mirandized in the future either..
Are the Feds getting ready to label him an "enemy combatant" and whisk him off to Gitmo as soon as the hospital clear him for travel?
If they don't mirandize him, then "enemy combatant" is the only label that I can see them getting away with.
Anything else would eventually require that.
I don't believe this often happens. I believe it seldom, if ever, has happened before. There is a public safety provision in the Miranda requirements but it sounds like there is a time limit and that limit will be reached today or tomorrow. The only thing failure to Mirandize will do is prevent the bombers statements from being used against him, and there is enough evidence without a confession to convict, has been the rational I have been hearing. Makes sense. If they give Miranda within the time constraints of the exception, I believe any statements after that point will be admisable, but one of the real lawyers would have to comment on that.
Pete:
It is not an indication of him being deemed an enemy combatant. In our civil justice system, Miranda warnings don't confer rights, they merely give notice of rights guaranteed under the US Constitution. (Under the assumption that there are millions of Americans who have never seen an episode of "Law & Order.")
Miranda warnings are not necessary at the time of arrest or confinement. They can be read later. Especially if the terrorist in question decides he wants to plea bargain in return for cooperation. If the prosecutors agree, they'll sit him down, start the recorders and read him Miranda. He will verbally agree to waive the rights therein, and then they'll ask him questions. The responses could be used against the terrorist later, if he fails for some reason to keep up his part of the bargain.
If there is no plea deal, but only a trial, the prosecution might not be able to use certain statements that he has made in response to questions intended to invite an incriminating response. If he volunteers incriminating statements to LEOs that are not in response to questioning, those may be admissible against him at trial.
Miranda issues do not apply in regard to any statements he may have made to the guy he car-jacked, because the victim was not a LEO or acting as an agent of the police.
- Tom
Something else about Miranda:
The primary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to place restraints upon the behavior of police officers. For example, a suspect says he doesn't want to talk; the police have to stop asking him questions.
A secondary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to punish the police (and the prosecution) for example, if the police continue to question a suspect after he says he doesn't want to talk.
The nature of that punishment can be to deprive the prosecution of the use of answers to questions asked after the suspect says he doesn't want to talk.
(Damnit; I knew if I tried to simplify it, I'd leave a bunch of stuff out. above, I'm talking about the right to remain silent part of Miranda. There are other issues, too.)
- Tom
I can't see what difference it will make. He can be convicted without ever saying a thing.
Thanks for that Tom, just trying to anticipate who this might develop..
Regards,
Peter
after ten years in America watching cop shows, I'm sure the guy can recite the Miranda warning from memory.
Some perps can correct an officer who gets part of it wrong.
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives.
The guy was naturalized and there may be a way to strip him of his citizenship. I frankly don't know.
But if Eric Holder wants a civilian federal trial, I think he'll probably get his way.
How do you read an unconscious/incoherent perp who is almost bled out his Miranda rights?
How do you read an unconscious/incoherent perp who is almost bled out his Miranda rights?
Ignorance is no excuse
I don't know, but I have read more than one search warrant to a door.
Fact is he is a citizen. He should be treated as such, I don't care what he did.
Why don't we look towards the FBI. They were aware of these two AT LEAST two years ago. Then they claim on national television THEY NEED HELP IDENTIFYING these two???????
Really? The FBI had no idea who these were, even though they questioned the older brother two years ago after going back to Russia.
What a joke. The FBI is covering something up. Let us not forget that the FBI knew about the 9/11 hijackers and did nothing, they knew about the WTC bombers and did nothing........strange trend huh?? Every time something is actually going to happen, they stand by and watch it. Interesting.
And to all you morons that want this guy "treated like an enemy combatant" or tortured, seriously? You're going to bitch and moan about protecting Constitutional rights such as the 2nd Amend. but you want this guy's Constitutional rights to be throw away. Do you not see the IRONY???
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything.
Fact is he is a citizen. He should be treated as such, I don't care what he did.
Why don't we look towards the FBI. They were aware of these two AT LEAST two years ago. Then they claim on national television THEY NEED HELP IDENTIFYING these two???????
Really? The FBI had no idea who these were, even though they questioned the older brother two years ago after going back to Russia.
What a joke. The FBI is covering something up. Let us not forget that the FBI knew about the 9/11 hijackers and did nothing, they knew about the WTC bombers and did nothing........strange trend huh?? Every time something is actually going to happen, they stand by and watch it. Interesting.
And to all you morons that want this guy "treated like an enemy combatant" or tortured, seriously? You're going to bitch and moan about protecting Constitutional rights such as the 2nd Amend. but you want this guy's Constitutional rights to be throw away. Do you not see the IRONY???
So you assume these are the only Muslim guys who have anit-American slants, and have traveled to foreign lands in the Boston area? Boston is a VERY ethnically and religiously diverse city. The FBI isn't omnipotent. (Thank God)
The guy was naturalized and there may be a way to strip him of his citizenship. I frankly don't know.
But if Eric Holder wants a civilian federal trial, I think he'll probably get his way.
Yes, it is Holder's call. I would bet 1 or 2 years from now he will go on trial.
NOT saying I like it. IF it was my call, they would
due process his azz out to the ball park and hang him.
Maybe right after a Red Sox game.
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives.
Nonsense. Calling this guy a "criminal" is typical liberal pablum. A "criminal" usually commit a crime for personal gain and lucre. This guy meets and exceeds all the criteria of a TERRORIST and he more than qualifies under the enemy combatant clause. Keep him isolated and interrogate him until every possible intelligence nuggets can be carved out of him. Who cares about a conviction at this moment in time when the national interest could be at stake. Super Max, why do they perform executions there or are you against capital punishment too. Send his ass to Guantanamo.
No what I am eluding to is that the FBI was very aware of what they were doing.
Seriously, look up the facts. Yep after an FBI investigation that includes questioning, they just burn your file when they don't find anything. They erase their memories.....so much so that they(FBI) have to ask citizens to identify the very individuals that they investigated two years ago.
I would be willing to bet they've been under surveillance ever since. At least electronically. They knew about their posts on the radical forum. They knew who they visited in Russia (radical muslims) Hell the RUSSIAN government wanted to know who the older brother was two years ago because THEY knew who he was visiting.
But you folks are sold on the story CNN and FN are selling lol.
Cursory knowledge of the "Enemy Combatatant" rules might avoid you falling into the "moron" category...
What might be the operational point in this case is that there is plenty enough physical evidence to convict regardless and that the need to learn if there are any other t's from the same radicalized group. Police work is based on gathering evidence for convictions. Counter-terrorist work is based on gathering timely intelligence to stop more horrors. The criminal justice system is just not adequate to fulfill that particular need. Add to that, there is a disgustingly strong drive of political correctness that seriously compounds that particular failing. My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Cursory knowledge of the "Enemy Combatatant" rules might avoid you falling into the "moron" category...
Was Timothy McVeigh an "enemy Combatant"? He wasn't tried as one....
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits.
Something else about Miranda:
The primary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to place restraints upon the behavior of police officers. For example, a suspect says he doesn't want to talk; the police have to stop asking him questions.
A secondary purpose of reading Miranda rights is to punish the police (and the prosecution) for example, if the police continue to question a suspect after he says he doesn't want to talk.
The nature of that punishment can be to deprive the prosecution of the use of answers to questions asked after the suspect says he doesn't want to talk.
(Damnit; I knew if I tried to simplify it, I'd leave a bunch of stuff out. above, I'm talking about the right to remain silent part of Miranda. There are other issues, too.)
- Tom
You've hit on most of it but I'll add that not having a lawyer present during questioning is another. A lawyer would advise his client to remain silent and not answer any questions that would incriminate him.
I don't have a problem with this terrorist not being Mirandized. There's more than enough evidence to convict him and anything he says up until he has been read his rights would not have to submitted as testimony in his trial. That's the way to avoid controversy and legal issues in convicting him, due process and the right to a fair trial.
Use the public safety provision to question him about other threats and then not present that info during trial.
Never say never but I don't think you find a juror that won't find him guilty with just the evidence that's come out so far.
Timothy McVeigh was pre-9/11 and it was clearly an all domestic operation. Different world today and we cannot afford to ensure there's not another component to this. Either way, he'll get due process. There is enough evidence to execute him no matter where he gets tried, with or without Miranda. In my view intelligence exploitation should be paramount at this time.
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits.
You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach.
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits.
You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach.
Oh so you admit to being a complete [bleep] moron? You are no better than the people you believe "you're holier than". [bleep] garbage....
Why don't you hop on a plane and go fight the crusade......oh wait never mind, you'd rather act like a tough guy...lol
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives.
Nonsense. Calling this guy a "criminal" is typical liberal pablum. A "criminal" usually commit a crime for personal gain and lucre. This guy meets and exceeds all the criteria of a TERRORIST and he more than qualifies under the enemy combatant clause. Keep him isolated and interrogate him until every possible intelligence nuggets can be carved out of him. Who cares about a conviction at this moment in time when the national interest could be at stake. Super Max, why do they perform executions there or are you against capital punishment too. Send his ass to Guantanamo.
A terrorist bomber is nothing new in America; goes back a long ways. EVERY last one who was an american citizen has been treated as a common criminal and put through the CJ system. How do justify usurping someone's civil rights?
Timothy McVeigh was pre-9/11 and it was clearly an all domestic operation..
It doesn't matter what it was before or after, or if it was a "domestic operation". The suspect is still an American citizen just like you.
I just love how all the jellyfish believe the "play dumb" tactic of the FBI....lol. I also cant believe the level of stupidity of you idiots that are OPENLY AND WILLINGLY wanting the suspects civil rights to be taken away. Guess what, same as with the 2nd amend, you give an inch they'll take a mile.
Ya give away this guy's rights. Then maybe five years down the road none of us will have them.
Due Process - Build a temporary gallows out in center field of Fenway Park and due process his butt. Don't care if he is 19, he has it coming.
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by.
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by.
Well of course, they got what they wanted. They wanted the explosion. Now they can run through more unconstitutional legislation and everyone like you people will applaud it. (Like the Patriot Act, NDAA, ect).
Holder was in charge of one of the biggest false flag events this country has ever seen (Operation Fast and Furious). It was a false flag to take 2nd amendment rights away, or at a minimum enforce restrictions.
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by.
That may be so. I don�t know what the venue will be, whether it�s Massachusetts law or federal. Obviously the crime happened in Mass, but terrorism generally falls to the FBI so I assume that becomes a federal crime. Mass doesn�t have a death penalty, but the Fed does. My bet is, this will string on for an awfully long time, but in the end he�ll fry�couldn�t happen to a nicer guy.
My choice? Stop any future threats and have the current t suddenly expire from his wounds.
Then you need to change your avatar. Or maybe turn it upside down. But keep your username, it fits.
You have absolutely NO idea what my avatar means then. Look up "Order of the Dragon". It fits PERFECTLY with my approach.
Oh so you admit to being a complete [bleep] moron? You are no better than the people you believe "you're holier than". [bleep] garbage....
Why don't you hop on a plane and go fight the crusade......oh wait never mind, you'd rather act like a tough guy...lol
I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
The constitution didn't change after 9/11. You can talk all you want, call me a liberal pinko-commie and all that crap, but the constitution hasn't changed.
The fact is Obama and Eric Holder will make the call on this one. No gallows will go up any place. And it go on and on and on. Years will go by.
That may be so. I don�t know what the venue will be, whether it�s Massachusetts law or federal. Obviously the crime happened in Mass, but terrorism generally falls to the FBI so I assume that becomes a federal crime. Mass doesn�t have a death penalty, but the Fed does. My bet is, this will string on for an awfully long time, but in the end he�ll fry�couldn�t happen to a nicer guy.
Hope you are right.
I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
Oh Im sorry, Im not a religious nut job, Dickhead. Nor do I get off on the same [bleep] you do (im sorry you cant let go of the unjust war you may or may not have fought in). I keep the Peace, You spew hate, dickhead.
You're so [bleep] stupid you cant even put two and two together. The FBI stated they had no idea who these two were. Yet they had be under surveillance for at least two years....BY THE FBI. lol
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything.
Not 100% correct, amigo. Long ago I was locked up for 72 hours on "suspicion," whatever that means. Maybe the law has changed in that area now, I don't know. O, they, Albuquerque, NM cops, finally admitted that I was the wrong guy but I already knew that.
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything.
Not 100% correct, amigo. Long ago I was locked up for 72 hours on "suspicion," whatever that means. Maybe the law has changed in that area now, I don't know. O, they, Albuquerque, NM cops, finally admitted that I was the wrong guy but I already knew that.
Not to mention tht he over looked the fact that the FBI was watching them for the past two years, since their initial investigation.
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives.
Nonsense. Calling this guy a "criminal" is typical liberal pablum. A "criminal" usually commit a crime for personal gain and lucre. This guy meets and exceeds all the criteria of a TERRORIST and he more than qualifies under the enemy combatant clause. Keep him isolated and interrogate him until every possible intelligence nuggets can be carved out of him. Who cares about a conviction at this moment in time when the national interest could be at stake. Super Max, why do they perform executions there or are you against capital punishment too. Send his ass to Guantanamo.
A terrorist bomber is nothing new in America; goes back a long ways. EVERY last one who was an american citizen has been treated as a common criminal and put through the CJ system. How do justify usurping someone's civil rights?
Show me where I said to usurp his civil rights? You can't and once again the fact we've had bombers in year's past is irrelevant. The foreign connection to islamo-fascism is there. This was clearly not a criminal act. The only issue in question was the Miranda Rights which is really a moot point as they have way more than they need to execute (you didn't answer that one are you or aren't you in favor of the death penalty-after due process). Regardless, it is perfectly legal to apply the enemy combatant rule in this case. To call this a criminal act is just nonsense.
"unjust war"? Now there's warning sign right there...
"unjust war"? Now there's warning sign right there...
I keep the Peace, You spew hate,
another clue
jorge,
Here's a question more than a statement.
While I agree that he should treated as an enemy combatant his American citizenship precludes his classification as an enemy combatant. It was an act of terrorism committed by an American citizen on American soil and his ties to foreign combatants (enemies of the US) have yet to be positively determined.
He's not just a criminal. The brothers committed a terrorist act on American people. I believe the Public Safety issue, the loss of his Miranda rights, and interrogation by federal authorities while in the federal justice system accomplishes what needs to be done without placing him in the military justice system.
What do you think?
Agree with all of the above. The problem is if you leave him in the justice system, the "Public Safety" Miranda issue is only good for forty eight hours. They have more than enough to hang him without Miranda. Here's another topic for discussion, he is a naturalized citizen and as such he is subject to having it null and voided.
Fox News is now reporting that he will be "prosecuted through the American justice system."
There was NO WAY Obama and Holder where going to have it any other way. Usual suspects "REJOICE"!
I've heard discussions about the forty eight hours but I don't believe from I've heard that it's set in stone. There's been discussion about the length of time it would take to properly assess the public safety threat. I believe in this case where an injured terrorist was unconscious and unable to answer questions the forty eight hours goes out the window.
The issue of an American citizen, even a naturalized citizen, committing an act of terrorism and being classified as an enemy combatant without positive unequivocal proof of ties to an foreign enemy of the US that results in the loss of their constitutional rights is a precedent I don't want to see.
I specifically mentioned foreign enemy. The classification of a domestic enemy combatant is very troubling.
The correct why to deal with the bomber would have been to throw a grenade in the boat and blow the little [bleep] up. I could care less about his rights or what he has to say, he is the enemy and he declared war....
Prosecuted through the American justice system.... What a [bleep] joke...
Show me where I said to usurp his civil rights? You can't and once again the fact we've had bombers in year's past is irrelevant. The foreign connection to islamo-fascism is there. This was clearly not a criminal act. The only issue in question was the Miranda Rights which is really a moot point as they have way more than they need to execute (you didn't answer that one are you or aren't you in favor of the death penalty-after due process). Regardless, it is perfectly legal to apply the enemy combatant rule in this case. To call this a criminal act is just nonsense.
First off, the last time I checked, terrorism is a CRIMINAL act; you know, violations of laws and all that.
This was a busy weekend for me, and I haven�t read any new news. But I haven�t seen any credible definite connection to foreign terror groups�I�m betting they had at least some contact, but I haven�t seen where that has been solidly connected as of yet. Even if they have, the guy is still a US citizen. Taking away all civil rights of a US citizen without due process is a very slippery slope�might be cool now, but what about the next time. As for the death penalty thing, apparently you missed my other comment.
[quote=EvilTwin]
I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
(im sorry you cant let go of the unjust war you may or may not have fought in).
Well dumb [bleep] for a relative newbie here I highly suggest you do your homework on this member you so affectionately call "dickhead" I assure you there was no "may not have fought in" but please continue as you vent this hilarious stupidity. Oh BTW you're being laughed at by the multitudes that know ET !
...but do have a fine day moron.
I'm glad they him captured him alive and have the ability to interrogate him.
In the end he'll get his just reward. He'll either rot in prison for the rest of life or be executed. Either way is fine with me.
I've heard discussions about the forty eight hours but I don't believe from I've heard that it's set in stone. There's been discussion about the length of time it would take to properly assess the public safety threat. I believe in this case where an injured terrorist was unconscious and unable to answer questions the forty eight hours goes out the window.
The issue of an American citizen, even a naturalized citizen, committing an act of terrorism and being classified as an enemy combatant without positive unequivocal proof of ties to an foreign enemy of the US that results in the loss of their constitutional rights is a precedent I don't want to see.
I specifically mentioned foreign enemy. The classification of a domestic enemy combatant is very troubling.
It's some real gray area, and I agree. While I'd love to see this POS disappear to GTMO forever and never be seen or heard from again, I worry about the precedent it would set. Convenient now, but what about the next time? What if this was a Christian nutcase who bombed a Mosque with ties to extremist Christian organizations abroad? (admittedly not likely but play along)
I'm glad they him captured him alive and have the ability to interrogate him.
In the end he'll get his just reward. He'll either rot in prison for the rest of life or be executed. Either way is fine with me.
Killing him would have complicated things greatly. While I�m sure we could still find out if there were ties to foreign terror organizations, being about to directly interrogate him is a big plus.
Just because he wasn't read a Miranda warning it does not mean that he is going to be classified as an enemy combatant.
Cops could decide not to read a Miranda warning to you or I or anyone else.
Miranda only prevents prosecutors from introducing statements made while in custody at trial. All of the other evidence still comes in and the accused still has the right to an attorney, to be silent, etc.
Oh goody we can feed him, take care of all his medical needs and entertain him by asking questions !!!! Like he will tell the truth and be helpful...... Holy [bleep] Batman.. Just think the Bastards built these got dam bombs with their welfare checks.....
This may or may not apply but once he's in the federal justice system there's zero chance he'll ever be released. Enemy combatants that have been captured and held at GITMO have been released.
Convict him of murder in a court of law and it's a done deal.
Oh forgot and provide the SOB with security so nothing happens to him.... unPhucking real....
What convictions and executions have been carried out in military trials and esp. of GITMO detainees?
If you want to see him executed, federal criminal court is the way to go.
Besides if you stick him in GITMO, not only will next to nothing happen in just short of forever, they will have to be a Supreme Court decision to prove a military trial is even permissible.
The track record seems to run with the Federal criminal courts.
Oh goody we can feed him, take care of all his medical needs and entertain him by asking questions !!!! Like he will tell the truth and be helpful...... Holy [bleep] Batman.. Just think the Bastards built these got dam bombs with their welfare checks.....
Clearly you don't understand interrogation...they will get everything out of him. He's worth more to us alive (for now) than dead...that may change later.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.
-Albert Camus
Just because he wasn't read a Miranda warning it does not mean that he is going to be classified as an enemy combatant.
You have to wonder why the Feds are not reading him his Miranda Rights now? The Feds maybe many things but they are not stupid.
If they don't intend shipping him off to GITMO, or at least threatening to, for what other reason might the Feds have chosen this stance??
Does it mean that any statement he makes to the Feds will not be in the public domain? Does it mean the Feds can "encourage" him to talk freely on the basis he won't incriminate himself any further?
Time will tell I guess..
This has NOTHING to do with playing. As to "criminal" well i guess we can call Pearl Harbor a "criminal case" too if it makes you feel better. As to the terrorist link it is there plain as day. This was an act of WAR. And the sooner you look at the world with rose colored glasses let us do our job (well not anymore I'm retired), the less people will bleed. Had we done profiling and labeled these guys as threats from the start, maybe the lives of close to twoo hundred people would have been different. Same goes for 9/11. As to the death penalty, your initial post was clear "send them to a Supermax". You Christian Nutcase analogy is frankly laughable.
Just because he wasn't read a Miranda warning it does not mean that he is going to be classified as an enemy combatant.
You have to wonder why the Feds are not reading him his Miranda Rights now? The Feds maybe many things but they are not stupid.
If they don't intend shipping him off to GITMO, or at least threatening to, for what other reason might the Feds have chosen this stance??
Does it mean that any statement he makes to the Feds will not be in the public domain? Does it mean the Feds can "encourage" him to talk freely on the basis he won't incriminate himself any further?
Time will tell I guess..
Or could it be that they have such an airtight case, it really doesn't matter what he says and does from here on out.
In the end he'll get his just reward. He'll either rot in prison for the rest of life or be executed. Either way is fine with me.
I bet a good defense lawyer would dispute that..Unless the Feds have some very incriminating forensic evidence that link him directly to the bombs or other equally strong evidence showing he was an active participant, I don't think his conviction for murder is a done deal.
I can imagine his defense team saying that he was the naive younger brother who was duped into taking part by his evil older sibling..They would assert that he knew nothing of the contents of the bags until after they detonated and then went on the run from the police with his brother fearing he would be executed or end up in GITMO.
The defense will show him as a model US citizen who loved America, his adopted home and who had little to do with his brother until recently..Or perhaps he will say he was under duress from his fanatical older brother and only took part to save his own skin..
A good defense team will make the guy look like a saint who panicked after found himself in a world of [bleep]..This is why it puzzles me why the Feds have not read him his rights and in doing so have closed down one potential avenue for his conviction..
This has NOTHING to do with playing. As to "criminal" well i guess we can call Pearl Harbor a "criminal case" too if it makes you feel better.
THIS if frankly laughable; that was the Japanese who are a sovereign nation. None of the pilots or perpetrators were US citizens.
As to the terrorist link it is there plain as day.
It is? What did I miss, did they definitively link them to foreign terror organizations over the weekend? Sure I tend to believe they were tied to outside organizations, but that�s pure SPECULATION on my part.
This was an act of WAR. And the sooner you look at the world with rose colored glasses let us do our job (well not anymore I'm retired), the less people will bleed. Had we done profiling and labeled these guys as threats from the start, maybe the lives of close to twoo hundred people would have been different. Same goes for 9/11. As to the death penalty, your initial post was clear "send them to a Supermax". You Christian Nutcase analogy is frankly laughable. [/quote]
For the comprehension impaired�
My bet is, this will string on for an awfully long time, but in the end he�ll fry�couldn�t happen to a nicer guy.
This has NOTHING to do with playing. As to "criminal" well i guess we can call Pearl Harbor a "criminal case" too if it makes you feel better.
This is pretty laughable too. Pearl Harbor - a result of a foreign military attacking the US vs. a naturalized citizen deciding to blow up his neighbors. Yep, real similar.
jorge, why not admit that you don't have a leg to stand on with this one.
Kevin your problem is that you don't take the MSM and Fed .Gov at their word when they tell you something.
Smile and nod sir; smile and nod. They have the utmost credibility; I suggest you stop this nonsense.
I can imagine his defense team saying that he was the naive younger brother who was duped into taking part by his evil older sibling..They would assert that he knew nothing of the contents of the bags until after they detonated and then went on the run from the police with his brother fearing he would be executed or end up in GITMO.
The standard is �Reasonable doubt�; I have a hard time seeing that as passing the �reasonable doubt� test with pretty much anyone. His goose is cooked even if he never says a word. I guarantee you the FBI has mounds of other evidence. Hell, if they only have what has been seen in the press, this guy�s in a world of hurt.
Kevin your problem is that you don't take the MSM and Fed .Gov at their word when they tell you something.
Smile and nod sir; smile and nod. They have the utmost credibility; I suggest you stop this nonsense.
Well I don't really go for all the conspiracy stuff, so maybe I do (for the most part) take them at their word. It's too early to definitively say what's in stone, but it will all shake down in the end. This whole thing has been very public and over a short period of time. If you think there is some puppet-master just sitting back making it all up as it goes along; I got nothing for ya.
I'd say that the video and photographic evidence, eye witness testimony, their statements to the guy they hijacked the car from, the shoot outs, forensic evidence and whatever else is found will be enough to convict him.
Pete, my friend, what your talking about deals more with motive and not the act itself. I think it will be undeniably proven that he committed the act.
Never say never and there could be a bleeding heart liberal on the jury that falls for the "He was a good boy" but I seriously doubt that would happen. The worst case is it would result in a hung jury and a retrial.
He's not going to get away it.
I can see a real psychological element as well. Don�t Mirandize him, tell him he�s an enemy combatant and going to GTMO unless he spills his guts.
To actually put him in GTMO and not put him on trial would present a serious constitutional issue. I believe I read that he is a US Citizen. I don�t care if he�s a Muslim terrorists or Satan himself; there are basic rights afforded to ALL US Citizens. Even if he is linked to a foreign terror organization, I see what he did here on US soil as crime, and he�s just a criminal. Give him a trial, and send his arse to super-max; he can sit right next to Dr. Ted Kaczynski so the two can talk about bomb theory for the rest of their miserable lives.
Nonsense. Calling this guy a "criminal" is typical liberal pablum. A "criminal" usually commit a crime for personal gain and lucre. This guy meets and exceeds all the criteria of a TERRORIST and he more than qualifies under the enemy combatant clause. Keep him isolated and interrogate him until every possible intelligence nuggets can be carved out of him. Who cares about a conviction at this moment in time when the national interest could be at stake. Super Max, why do they perform executions there or are you against capital punishment too. Send his ass to Guantanamo.
I think it would be incredibly dangerous precedent to start declaring US citizens enemy combatants and shipping them off to Gitmo. Who knows what the next person declared an enemy combatant will be. Some prepper who is hoarding guns and ammo and makes some crazy rant on youtube? Slippery slope... We've dealt with bombers in this country long before this incident, we didn't whisk Eric Robert Rudolph to Gitmo did we? He was a terrorist, a christian terrorist instead of a muslim terrorist.
Never say never and there could be a bleeding heart liberal on the jury that falls for the "He was a good boy" but I seriously doubt that would happen. The worst case is it would result in a hung jury and a retrial.
He's not going to get away it.
I hope you are right and I hope he gets fried. What I fear is that he will somehow end up with a relatively light sentence after being portrayed as his older brothers pawn..
I think it would be incredibly dangerous precedent to start declaring US citizens enemy combatants and shipping them off to Gitmo. Who knows what the next person declared an enemy combatant will be. Some prepper who is hoarding guns and ammo and makes some crazy rant on youtube? Slippery slope...
More likely one of the loud and proud hoarders here on 24hr.
We've dealt with bombers in this country long before this incident, we didn't whisk Eric Robert Rudolph to Gitmo did we? He was a terrorist, a christian terrorist instead of a muslim terrorist.
And McVeigh of course. Another muslim bombing - except it wasn't of course. Though he did have military training as I recall. In the end, Federal criminal court fixed him up quite nicely.
The BBC are now reporting the suspect has been charged with "using a weapon of mass destruction" a charge which they say carries the death penalty??
I hope the Feds have all their evidence sorted for this, as would hate to see him get off or get a reduced sentence on a technicality..
I hope you are right and I hope he gets fried. What I fear is that he will somehow end up with a relatively light sentence after being portrayed as his older brothers pawn..
I really can�t recall any terrorist getting a light sentence since 9/11. Way back when domestic terrorism came from a bunch of Marxist/Lenninist left wing groups, that happened in some instances. But post 9/11, we�ve somewhat lost our sense of humor for terrorists.
Still, whether he goes to Super-Max, or GTMO, there will be more. It�s very hard to stop terrorism because planting bombs is just not an especially difficult thing to do.
But post 9/11, we�ve somewhat lost our sense of humor for terrorists.
There is that. For sure.
Kevin your problem is that you don't take the MSM and Fed .Gov at their word when they tell you something.
Smile and nod sir; smile and nod. They have the utmost credibility; I suggest you stop this nonsense.
Well I don't really go for all the conspiracy stuff, so maybe I do (for the most part) take them at their word. It's too early to definitively say what's in stone, but it will all shake down in the end. This whole thing has been very public and over a short period of time. If you think there is some puppet-master just sitting back making it all up as it goes along; I got nothing for ya.
Interesting the way that people play this; I said nothing about "puppet master". I am simply deeply cynical of the government and the Liberal media.
My fascination is the speed with which people will go along with a gov they typically doubt, and an MSM they typically hate. Just seems intellectually lazy in my opinion, particularly when we are talking about taking basic rights away from a citizen of this country.
Imagine how easy it'd be for the gov & media to take advantage of this tendency (without even communicating or conspiring) in people who normally view them with a healthy degree of cynicism! There doesn't have to be a conspiracy between parties within these two institutions (which are ideologically united against the Constitution) for things like this to taking on a life of their own. Water formed the grand canyon; how many of these little moves away from principled protection of the rights of citizens shall it take before we've effectively blown our own heads off in the name of national security?
Yeah yeah, aluminum foil blah blah blah. Anybody who thinks we aren't already more than half way there by nature of our willingness to take their word when it fits our preconceived notions of how these things go down has their head in the sand.
Those who recognized these guys as a threat but let them become citizens and ultimately perpetrate this crime don't have to intend for the event they allow to whittle away at civil rights. Intentions don't matter jack. Point is, enough of these "unfortunate incidences" added together will in fact = a worthless Constitution which sits in some museum as a show peice and matters little more than that.
Terror charges have been formally filed against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 19-year-old suspected of helping carry out the bomb attacks at last week's Boston Marathon, killing three and wounding more than 200 others.
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Tsarnaev has been charged with "using a weapon of mass destruction against persons and property at the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013, resulting in the death of three people and injuries to more than 200 people."
Tsarnaev made his initial appearance before a magistrate judge in his hospital bed at the heavily guarded Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where he remains in serious condition. According to a federal official, Tsarnaev is sedated and unable to speak.
Tsarnaev is charged with one count of "using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction (namely, an improvised explosive device or IED) against persons and property within the United States resulting in death, and one count of malicious destruction of property by means of an explosive device resulting in death." If convicted, Tsarnaev could face the death penalty.
According to the U.S. attorney's office in Boston, the judge advised Tsarnaev of his rights and the charges against him. Tsarnaev declined to answer bail questions and agreed to a probable cause hearing, set for May 30. "Court is satisfied that the defendant is alert and able to respond to the charges," the criminal complaint unsealed Monday read. Tsarnaev, who had been detained by the FBI, is now in the custody of U.S. marshals.
[Related: Tsarnaev remains in serious condition at hospital, FBI says]
�Although our investigation is ongoing, today�s charges bring a successful end to a tragic week for the city of Boston, and for our country,� U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement. �Our thoughts and prayers remain with each of the bombing victims and brave law enforcement professionals who lost their lives or suffered serious injuries as a result of this week�s senseless violence. Thanks to the valor of state and local police, the dedication of federal law enforcement and intelligence officials, and the vigilance of members of the public, we�ve once again shown that those who target innocent Americans and attempt to terrorize our cities will not escape from justice. We will hold those who are responsible for these heinous acts accountable to the fullest extent of the law.�
Earlier Monday, White House press secretary Jay Carney said Tsarnaev would not be held as enemy combatant.
Tsarnaev was brought by ambulance to the facility after he was captured in Watertown, Mass., on Friday, following an intense manhunt that included at least two shootouts with police and ended with the bloodied suspect taken into custody from a tarp-covered boat he had been hiding in. He apparently suffered gunshot wounds to the neck and leg.
Tsarnaev's 26-year-old brother, Tamerlan, the other suspect wanted by the FBI, was killed during a late-night firefight with police in Watertown. Tsarnaev managed to escape on foot, prompting a citywide lockdown as police conducted a house-by-house search.
The Tsarnaev brothers, who were born in the former Russian territory known as Kyrgyzstan and are of Chechen descent, lived in Cambridge, Mass., for several years. Dzhokhar became a naturalized American citizen last year.
Under U.S. law, authorities had 72 hours after Tsarnaev's arrest to file a criminal complaint against him.
Boston Marathon Criminal Charges
Interesting the way that people play this; I said nothing about "puppet master". I am simply deeply cynical of the government and the Liberal media.
My fascination is the speed with which people will go along with a gov they typically doubt, and an MSM they typically hate. Just seems intellectually lazy in my opinion, particularly when we are talking about taking basic rights away from a citizen of this country.
Imagine how easy it'd be for the gov & media to take advantage of this tendency (without even communicating or conspiring) in people who normally view them with a healthy degree of cynicism! There doesn't have to be a conspiracy between parties within these two institutions (which are ideologically united against the Constitution) for things like this to taking on a life of their own. Water formed the grand canyon; how many of these little moves away from principled protection of the rights of citizens shall it take before we've effectively blown our own heads off in the name of national security?
Yeah yeah, aluminum foil blah blah blah. Anybody who thinks we aren't already more than half way there by nature of our willingness to take their word when it fits our preconceived notions of how these things go down has their head in the sand.
Those who recognized these guys as a threat but let them become citizens and ultimately perpetrate this crime don't have to intend for the event they allow to whittle away at civil rights. Intentions don't matter jack. Point is, enough of these "unfortunate incidences" added together will in fact = a worthless Constitution which sits in some museum as a show peice and matters little more than that.
Well I just go with things based on the track record. I know that early information is often questionable, but in most instances things tend to fall pretty much how they appear. The conspiracy guys will always find stuff, but that stuff is always a real stretch.
MSM is just like an internet forum. The MSM despite their political leanings is still one of the most potent intelligence organizations in the world. Regardless of the spin, often the actual DATA is there. They do some good reporting and ferreting out of information, but like an internet forum; you have to have a finely tuned BS detector. You have to pick out fact vs opinion vs spin.
Now for me, I just don�t watch TV news; especially if it�s cable news; they�re about the worst (and I lump Fox in there also). I tend to prefer much of the mainstream news sources. Most often I turn to Drudge, but I always look at whom they link to because they will link to some iffy news organizations frequently. For me, I go to the majors (AP, NY Times, Christian Science Monitor, Washington Post, etc). Yeah, all of those will have a liberal slant on things, but where the DATA is concerned more often than not, they have the hard data right or close to right. Even Rush will tell you these are the best news sources; just have to filter out the spin.
�Although our investigation is ongoing, today�s charges bring a successful end to a tragic week for the city of Boston, and for our country,� U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement.
That says a lot right there. The Hussein administration is going to consider it "case closed" and keep their mouths shut to avoid any controversy.
Most of the disinformation is found on places like this - which was ready to convict an execute a couple of high school kids based on their complexions and shoulder bags. MSM hasn't done any worse at least.
Fact is he is a citizen. He should be treated as such, I don't care what he did.
According to law, you should care what he did, because it makes your previous statement wrong...
Under the current scheme, there are seven acts that are considered expatriating and will result in the loss of citizenship. These are:
Being naturalized in a foreign country, upon the person�s own application made after reaching 18 years of age;
Making an oath or other declaration of allegiance to a foreign country or division thereof, again, after reaching 18 years of age;
Serving in the armed forces of a foreign country if those armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the US, or if the person serves as an officer;
Working for the government of a foreign country if the person also obtains nationality in that country, or if to work in such a position an oath or other declaration of allegiance is required;
Making a formal renunciation of US citizenship before a US consular officer or diplomat in a foreign country;
Making a formal written statement of renunciation during a state of war, if the Attorney General approves the renunciation as not contrary to US national defense; and
Committing an act of treason against the US, or attempting by force or the use of arms to overthrow the government of the US. Renunciation by this means can be accomplished only after a court has found the person guilty.In case you're confused about what constitutes Treason, here's what the U.S. Constitution has to say about it...
"
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
Like it or not, he's not one of us anymore...
Waterboard the little creep and send me the video, I could use a good laugh...
I have already done more than my fair share of fighting. Different crusade. I killed communists. What have you done noteworthy ever to actually combat such fine organiztations as muslim radicals or communist slime?? Dickhead.
Oh Im sorry, Im not a religious nut job, Dickhead. Nor do I get off on the same [bleep] you do (im sorry you cant let go of the unjust war you may or may not have fought in). I keep the Peace, You spew hate, dickhead.
You're so [bleep] stupid you cant even put two and two together. The FBI stated they had no idea who these two were. Yet they had be under surveillance for at least two years....BY THE FBI. lol
You've got a funny way of "keeping the peace" with that kind of talk. It sure sounds rather hateful to me...
It's okay, you can admit it, you're a hater...
Most of the disinformation is found on places like this - which was ready to convict an execute a couple of high school kids based on their complexions and shoulder bags. MSM hasn't done any worse at least.
Look, I was the first to speak up about blaming the "brown guys" on another thread where someone got it completely wrong. But this is a very different thing. Now I'm not there, so I'm having to take it all in through the media, but for it NOT to be as it appears, that would mean a massive amount of people throwing out the same disinformation.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say they got their man; I don't give a crap what the color of his skin is or how young he is.
HAJ,
Thanks for posting that. From what I'm reading and in regards to the topic of this thread he's still a citizen until a court finds otherwise.
We'll have to hold off on the waterboarding for a bit.
You know what Kevin, on reflection I will concede the point to you. It is far more important to protect our rights. I don't think I said anywhere where they should not be protected. It's OBE now anyway. Let's just hope all the info comes out in the end but the international connection to me is as clear as that US citizen we captured over there and threw him in prison after a trial. But I see the usual liberals are here spewing about we've convicted them SOLELY on skin color which BTW, they are Caucasian. And of course the correlations to McVeigh and Rudolph are completely irrelevant. Different times and nothing to do with an international movement set on destroying the west. Oh wait then there are the man-made global warming dolts...
I think it best that he go through the 'American Justice System'
Even if he gets off, he'll eventually be busted for stealing bombing memorabilia from a hotel room in Vegas.
Renunciation by this means can be accomplished only after a court has found the person guilty.
Like it or not, he's not one of us anymore...
Those two pronoucements seem contradictory.
To the best of my knowledge he hasn't been convicted.
I'm amazed at how fast people will throw a citizen of the US under the bus because the government and MSM have prounouced him guilty.
This is the Obama administration we're talking about...
You know what Kevin, on reflection I will concede the point to you. It is far more important to protect our rights. I don't think I said anywhere where they should not be protected. It's OBE now anyway. Let's just hope all the info comes out in the end but the international connection to me is as clear as that US citizen we captured over there and threw him in prison after a trial. But I see the usual liberals are here spewing about we've convicted them SOLELY on skin color which BTW, they are Caucasian.
Well said sir. Were it not for the civil rights thing, I�d be right there with you on sending him to GTMO never to be seen again.
HAJ,
Thanks for posting that. From what I'm reading and in regards to the topic of this thread he's still a citizen until a court finds otherwise.
We'll have hold off on the waterboarding for a bit.
Well poop! I was really looking forward to that...
As per usual bud, you're right. The courts have to strip him of his citizenship. My point was only that there is ground to do such at this point. He doesn't even have to be present for them to do it. It's has hard as writing a warrant...
He has been charged with a crime, and I'd imagine that more charges are pending as the prosecutor has more material to work with. I'd like to see multiple charges that carry the death penalty levied upon him...
Even if he gets off, he'll eventually be busted for stealing bombing memorabilia from a hotel room in Vegas.
My point was only that there is ground to do such at this point.
No, there isn't ground... he hasn't been FOUND GUILTY. He hasn't even GONE TO TRIAL.
These laws that you find so annoying were put in place to protect us from the most dangerous entity in our country... our own government.
The government saying they have evidence ("case closed; move along. nothing to see here!") and the MSM going along with it hardly seems like sufficient "ground" upon which to consider the guy convicted and take away his citizenship.
You know what Kevin, on reflection I will concede the point to you. It is far more important to protect our rights. I don't think I said anywhere where they should not be protected. It's OBE now anyway. Let's just hope all the info comes out in the end but the international connection to me is as clear as that US citizen we captured over there and threw him in prison after a trial. But I see the usual liberals are here spewing about we've convicted them SOLELY on skin color which BTW, they are Caucasian.
+1
I got no problems with due process.
What laws do I find annoying, efw?
HAJ,
Thanks for posting that. From what I'm reading and in regards to the topic of this thread he's still a citizen until a court finds otherwise.
We'll have hold off on the waterboarding for a bit.
Well poop! I was really looking forward to that...
As per usual bud, you're right. The courts have to strip him of his citizenship. My point was only that there is ground to do such at this point. He doesn't even have to be present for them to do it. It's has hard as writing a warrant...
He has been charged with a crime, and I'd imagine that more charges are pending as the prosecutor has more material to work with. I'd like to see multiple charges that carry the death penalty levied upon him...
That brings up an interesting question.
What if he's stripped of his citizenship before he goes to trial?
And for those
![[Linked Image]](http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/watch4bear/image003_zps657db7c3.jpg)
who persist on comparing the likes of Rudolph and McVeigh, ponder this:
He has to be found guilty of Treason first. They can't strip it until he has been charged and convicted of it.
His lawyer can represent him without him present if need be and this could all be done pretty quick.
Then, once guilty of treason, he can be stripped of his citizenship and then the sky is the limit on how to proceed from there...
And for those
who persist on comparing the likes of Rudolph and McVeigh, ponder this:
I'd call that map, conservative, at best...
And for those
who persist on comparing the likes of Rudolph and McVeigh, ponder this:
I'd call that map, conservative, at best...
I wonder what it is that they don't like about Montana.
What laws do I find annoying, efw?
Sorry if I overstated; it would, however, appear that you're annoyed at the fact that the guy has to be convicted of a crime before his citizenship is revoked.
If I misread this I apologize.
This all touches a nerve for me. I believe that we as white christian Conservatives stand a good chance of being painted in the same light as these guys. If we start acting as though revocation of citizenship is a small matter now, where will that leave us when it is us who are called into question?
Happened in Rome. You think that this Pres (or one like him) wouldn't make us "swear allegiance to Cesar" under pain of death, justifying it all along by making us enemies of the state?
We aren't that far away from that. This guy is likely guilty and if he is proven as such I'm fine with whatever penalty he pays. After he is proven guilty in a court of law, just as I hope others will allow me if accused.
He has to be found guilty of Treason first. They can't strip it until he has been charged and convicted of it.
His lawyer can represent him without him present if need be and this could all be done pretty quick.
Then, once guilty of treason, he can be stripped of his citizenship and then the sky is the limit on how to proceed from there...
Hmmmmmm.
What's the penalty for treason?
He has to be found guilty of Treason first. They can't strip it until he has been charged and convicted of it.
His lawyer can represent him without him present if need be and this could all be done pretty quick.
Then, once guilty of treason, he can be stripped of his citizenship and then the sky is the limit on how to proceed from there...
Citzenship doesn't have anything to do with it. Permanent residents and illegal aliens are Mirandized as well.
You either throw his rights away and waterboard his ass in the name of national security, or you don't.
They chose don't.
Travis
He has to be found guilty of Treason first. They can't strip it until he has been charged and convicted of it.
His lawyer can represent him without him present if need be and this could all be done pretty quick.
Then, once guilty of treason, he can be stripped of his citizenship and then the sky is the limit on how to proceed from there...
Hmmmmmm.
What's the penalty for treason?
It's whatever Congress decides, pretty much. It's been as short as a few years imprisonment, and as final as the death penalty.
What laws do I find annoying, efw?
Sorry if I overstated; it would, however, appear that you're annoyed at the fact that the guy has to be convicted of a crime before his citizenship is revoked.
If I misread this I apologize.
This all touches a nerve for me. I believe that we as white christian Conservatives stand a good chance of being painted in the same light as these guys. If we start acting as though revocation of citizenship is a small matter now, where will that leave us when it is us who are called into question?
Happened in Rome. You think that this Pres (or one like him) wouldn't make us "swear allegiance to Cesar" under pain of death, justifying it all along by making us enemies of the state?
We aren't that far away from that. This guy is likely guilty and if he is proven as such I'm fine with whatever penalty he pays. After he is proven guilty in a court of law, just as I hope others will allow me if accused.
I'm very leary of throwing away due process as well.
Travis
If I misread this I apologize.
Communication works both ways. It's just as likely that I confused you with disjointed, unclear statements. I tend to do that as my mind works far faster than my fingers type.
that right there makes 2 of us Ed.
He has to be found guilty of Treason first. They can't strip it until he has been charged and convicted of it.
His lawyer can represent him without him present if need be and this could all be done pretty quick.
Then, once guilty of treason, he can be stripped of his citizenship and then the sky is the limit on how to proceed from there...
Citzenship doesn't have anything to do with it. Permanent residents and illegal aliens are Mirandized as well.
You either throw his rights away and waterboard his ass in the name of national security, or you don't.
They chose don't.
Travis
Enemy combatants are not mirandized. American citizens cannot be tried in a Military Court. So, in order for the enemy combatant charge to stick, they have to first remove his citizenship.
That's all.
It's all moot now anyways, as he's having his day in court.
It's all moot now anyways, as he's having his day in court.
Yes.
Travis
Earlier today on FOX Judge Napolitano was commenting on Public Safety and waiving of Miranda rights. He said this was instituted by the Obama regime and it's very different from precedents.
He has some serious issues with it and I have great deal of respect for his opinions.
My opinions on the matter are swirling.
Earlier today on FOX Judge Napolitano was commenting on Public Safety and waiving of Miranda rights. He said this was instituted by the Obama regime and it's very different from precedents.
He has some serious issues with it and I have great deal of respect for his opinions.
My opinions on the matter are swirling.
First, I believe it was Gee Dub that came up with the GFY policy regarding alleged combatants.
Second, nothing swirling about it. A USC gets his fair day in court as far as I am concerned.
Third, I wish we would move more toward leaving black ops, black ops. STFU and stop telling us about it. A movie on killing Bin Laden? Give me a [bleep] break.
Travis
Nepolitano mentioned that the interpretation used by Obama regime is different. I'm not absolutely certain about the details so TIFWIW.
I absolutely agree that a USC deserves his/her day in court and that's not the issue I was commenting on. It's the Public Safety/Miranda rights issue that I have concerns with.
Nepolitano mentioned that the interpretation used by Obama regime is different. I'm not absolutely certain about the details so TIFWIW.
I absolutely agree that a USC deserves his/her day in court and that's not the issue I was commenting on. It's the Public Safety/Miranda rights issue that I have concerns with.
If it saves one life?
Travis
Nepolitano mentioned that the interpretation used by Obama regime is different. I'm not absolutely certain about the details so TIFWIW.
I absolutely agree that a USC deserves his/her day in court and that's not the issue I was commenting on. It's the Public Safety/Miranda rights issue that I have concerns with.
If it saves one life?
Travis
That's an interesting question filled with irony, hypocrisy, enigma, and truth.
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything.
We should be able to kick out foreigners if we decide that they are a threat to public safety. We also should be able to strip this idiot of his citizenship if we decide he was lying when he to the oath of citizenship.
Nepolitano mentioned that the interpretation used by Obama regime is different. I'm not absolutely certain about the details so TIFWIW.
I absolutely agree that a USC deserves his/her day in court and that's not the issue I was commenting on. It's the Public Safety/Miranda rights issue that I have concerns with.
If it saves one life?
Travis
That's an interesting question filled with irony, hypocrisy, enigma, and truth.
The left sure likes to use it.
Travis
he is also subject to having his naturalization undone if it is shown he lied when he took the oath of citizenship....not sure what the time restrictions are for that action.
my thought is to try the little bastard and convict him in a regular court and give him the needle.....trying to denaturalize him, ship him to Gitmo, treat him as an enemy combatant, etc. are just side shows that will delay the proceedings with endless appeals of procedural issues.
and with this bunch of commies in power, you don't want them setting precedents about crossing that bright line between how you treat American citizens for alleged offenses in the US and how you treat foreigners acting on foreign soil.
Nepolitano mentioned that the interpretation used by Obama regime is different. I'm not absolutely certain about the details so TIFWIW.
I absolutely agree that a USC deserves his/her day in court and that's not the issue I was commenting on. It's the Public Safety/Miranda rights issue that I have concerns with.
If it saves one life?
Travis
That's an interesting question filled with irony, hypocrisy, enigma, and truth.
The left sure likes to use it.
Travis
The right has an answer. GFY.
he is also subject to having his naturalization undone if it is shown he lied when he took the oath of citizenship....not sure what the time restrictions are for that action.
my thought is to try the little bastard and convict him in a regular court and give him the needle.....trying to denaturalize him, ship him to Gitmo, treat him as an enemy combatant, etc. are just side shows that will delay the proceedings with endless appeals of procedural issues.
and with this bunch of commies in power, you don't want them setting precedents about crossing that bright line between how you treat American citizens for alleged offenses in the US and how you treat foreigners acting on foreign soil.
HEAR HEAR!!!
I've heard discussions about the forty eight hours but I don't believe from I've heard that it's set in stone. There's been discussion about the length of time it would take to properly assess the public safety threat. I believe in this case where an injured terrorist was unconscious and unable to answer questions the forty eight hours goes out the window.
The issue of an American citizen, even a naturalized citizen, committing an act of terrorism and being classified as an enemy combatant without positive unequivocal proof of ties to an foreign enemy of the US that results in the loss of their constitutional rights is a precedent I don't want to see.
I specifically mentioned foreign enemy. The classification of a domestic enemy combatant is very troubling.
His partner in this terrorist act was not a citizen
How would Bloombunghole's ideal line up with me agreeing with Steve_NO that this guy should be tried in Court, as the Constitution maintains?
They were either guilty of something 2 years ago or weren't. You can't lock folks up cuzz you think they might do something, else we'd all be in jail, except for TRH who will never do anything.
We should be able to kick out foreigners if we decide that they are a threat to public safety. We also should be able to strip this idiot of his citizenship if we decide he was lying when he to the oath of citizenship.
Or better yet, an individual applying for citizenship should have an overriding rationale for why we should accept him. Right now we ask why shouldn't we reject him (for citizenship).
Seems backward considering the fact that with our welfare state as it is we are the ones opening ourselves to risk and liability in the transaction.
he is also subject to having his naturalization undone if it is shown he lied when he took the oath of citizenship....not sure what the time restrictions are for that action.
my thought is to try the little bastard and convict him in a regular court and give him the needle.....trying to denaturalize him, ship him to Gitmo, treat him as an enemy combatant, etc. are just side shows that will delay the proceedings with endless appeals of procedural issues.
and with this bunch of commies in power, you don't want them setting precedents about crossing that bright line between how you treat American citizens for alleged offenses in the US and how you treat foreigners acting on foreign soil.
I agree on all counts, though I would be uncomfortable with any in power crossing that bright line.
If all the gov & MSM say is true, there will be no challenge involved in convicting him in domestic court. Heaven knows that is what I'd want if I was accused.
I just heard an excellent treatise by Judge Napolitano on the issue. I don't think there's any doubt in anybody's mind as to his grasp of the Constitution and individual rights. As expected and I agree, the terrorist should be granted all rights under our laws.
That said, it would have been perfectly legal-had there or if there is a connection to Al-Quaida, Taliban, etc he can be interrogated for up to thirty days without Miranda to try and extract information from him. If successful, NONE of that could be used against him in court,but as the Judge says, there is enough to convict him based on what we have already. It seems to me this would have been the way to go, but it's OBE now. Also there is absolutely no statute called the "48 hour Rule" that the marxist in the WH was trying to implement.
I totally understand the court system but definitely not comfortable with the lack of deterrence for enemy combatants on American soil citizen or not.Come on over sit a spell then blow chit up,kill and maim hundreds,then get a fair trial!
These bastards need to be placed in a harsh interrogational environment,treated as the enemy they are.. doesn't get any better down the road as we've become a soft society offering up a wealth of soft targets for their exploitation.
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