Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Snake bite kit saves life?

Worked with a lady a few years back that lost her entire calf muscle to a brown recluse bite. She was in western NC cleaning her grandmother's closet out and was bitten. She did not think much of it at the time and then when she went to the hospital the doc said it was unlikely that it was a brown since we live kinda of on the edge of their territory. Ten years later she still limps and her leg is misshapen. Nasty.

My sister was biten by a brown recluse, while cleaning out a closet in an apartment she was moving in, on a finger.

About 3 weeks later, they wound up scraping the bone and removing all the dead tissue. Now that finger is basically useless, but unless you look close, its not noticeable.

I believe its been fairly well researched but I don't know of any studies that support electric shock treatment as an anti venom.

I tend to think that it more likely that the strikes where it appears to work are instances where the snake doesn't actually inject venom for what ever reason..

Some Vets did a test on this and found that the stun gun had no effect on the molecular composition of the venom. The anecdotal reports of success likely come from treating "dry" bites. I hate snakes, btw.

(Looks like Pete beat me to the same conclusion)

Remember the old snake bite kits that had the little scalpal blade and suction cups? You were suppose to make an "X" cut across the fang marks then use the suction cups to pull out the venom.
I believe THOSE were indeed declared to cause more harm than good. I occassionally still see some around at flea markets etc.

I've read enough to try 2 things.

An extractor. Hypo syringe with a suction cup that provides pressure and not just the dingy little rubber cup things that used to be around housing the rest of the kit. Don't cut. Just apply and pull back and hold pressure.

Cold doesn't really hurt anything from my training and the combo may slow things down some. Which never hurts.

From what I"ve heard if you are 3 hours or less from medical, then thigns should end up ok.

Last thing... the electric shock. I"ve read of how it works ALL over the world. SO much so that regardless of if its proven or not, it would be worht the shock from DC voltage. Its generally not like that will kill you anyway....

And if it doesn't hurt, but doesn't help, then you've not moved into the negative category and had the chance of moving forward...

I have read( for what that is worth) that snakes have the capability to limit the amount of venom they inject during a bite. They do this as to not use up the venom when it is needed for a kill. Many defensive bites are just that. This may be the reason the guy did not have such a severe reaction.

Had a friend down in NM that his brother was riding along the bottom of an arroyo and a rattler stuck out at him from the top and bit him in the neck. He died within a short period of time.

Current thinking on suction, bad cause it concentrates the venmin the area, more likely to kill the tissue in that small area (from a study done on live pigs)

Cold not good, due to possible frostbite, also slows down circulation and lymphatic system, again concentrating venom in area.

IF the snake hits a vein (leading to heart), you may be cooked anyway.

Medical care asap is the way to go, the new high dollar polyvalent anti-venin (Cro-Fab), and supportive care if needed, are what saves tissues, limbs, and lives. It's made from sheep now, which gets around a somewhat common horse allergy from the old stuff.

Sycamore

I don't think there is a universal "best" approach to Snakebite first aid, as there are numerous types of venom that attack the body in different ways.

I think the best thing a person can do is read up on the snakes they are mostly likely to encounter in their own locality, and the seek specific information for dealing with them..

10-4, I was speaking of envenomation by North American Crotalids.

On the other hand, prompt removal to definitive medical care and the proper anti-venin is NEVER a bad choice.

With elapid envenomation, one might see the use of a pressure bandage, if the venom was clearly neurotoxic, rather than cyto- or hemo-toxic. (haemo to you!)

Sycamore

The gentleman that was bitten is a close friend on one of my hunting club members. He usually wears snakeboots, but could not find them that morning and put on Muck Boots. The bite was by a very large Timber Rattler. The strike went right through his pants and Muck Boots. Fortunately, he was only 30 minutes from the hospital and is now out and doing well. Be assured, I was wearing my snake boots in the turkey woods last week and on guard.

Agreed on the need for prompt medical attention..

Do venomous snakes in the US belong to the pit viper family?

Luckily we only have one venomous snake in the UK (the European Adder) and that is only very mildly venomous so its bite doesn't really pose any danger unless you happen to be allergic to it..

Yes, they are pit vipers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattlesnake

With the exception of the Mojave line, rattlers in the US are packing hemotoxins (sp ?) causing necrosis and may also affect blood clotting. The Mojave boys have some neurotoxin effects.

I've been told there is a vaccine for dogs for rattlesnake venom. It's suggested for quail dogs, that are likely to get hit by them. Supposedly builds up the immune system's response to the venom. Never heard of anything like it for people, though.

I read the link about using cortisone to treat spider bites.

Does anyone know if there has been any tests or studies about using the same method for snake bite?

I know spider venom is very toxic. Have there ever been any studies comparing spider venom to snake venom, like is it the same chemical content, or has other elements that make it so toxic?

A spider injects a very small amount of venom, as compared to the amount of venom from a large venomous snake.

I'm glad he is going to be OK, but I have serious doubts that the "snake bite kit" had any effect at all on his recovery. Rattlers are certainly venomus, but very few, if any healty adults that get to a hospital within an hour die.

I have read black widow venom is neurotoxic, like cobra venom.

Interesting, my last EMR course said suction still ok, and cold ok, but not frostbite( I question how the hell could anyone put enough ice on to frostbite and area without knowing it anyway, definitely nothing a responder would do) Of course that was June of 2012 so the data we had is almost a year old already.

i was helping Dr Morris work some cattle when i was in high school. he was the local Vet anyway he got bit by a rattler so he went and sat on his tail gate for about an hr and drank some ice tea. he then went back to work. he was a huge man around 6.7 and 300+#s but i think he had been injecting himself with venom over the yrs building up an immunity.