Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 250 won't kill deer, unpopular due to bad reputation????

I ran across this guy doing a google search for ballistics and loads, etc. His site is Terminal Ballistics Research and he writes as if his is the authority on all fact. Here is his comment in regard to the 250-3000 Savage. I had never heard this before. Have any of you? (see his quote below).

The .250-3000 became extremely popular for a time, then gradually lost favor. Hunters, not only in the U.S but throughout the world adopted the Savage for its advertised virtues but soon found the cartridge wanting. The lightly constructed 87 grain factory load would sometimes suffer bullet blow up on impact and fail to penetrate the onside muscle and bone of a variety of deer species. Wounding was often both narrow and shallow and game animals would run after being hit with well placed shots. To add to the frustration, many hunters found the light recoiling, fast handling and highly accurate Savage rifle extremely nice to use. Hunters were loathe to part with the Savage rifle but loathe to use the cartridge on deer.

Eventually, a 100 grain load was created for the .250 but by this time, the cartridge already had a bad rap. Nevertheless, a small portion of hunters continued to enjoy using the .250 on light bodied game, favoring the light recoil of the .250 combined with the desirable qualities of the Savage 99 rifle. As can be expected, the .250 was a great cartridge for training young hunters and it is in this last role that the .250 Savage has survived through to the present.

There was always controversy around any new cartridges and bullets, they weren't any different back then than they are now. Remember that when the 250-3000 came out that it was only 20'ish years since black powder was still king, so there were a LOT of hunters who blamed any deer that ran on the 87gr bullet because that NEVER happened if you used a serious caliber with serious bullets.

And, there surely were bullet failures. Metallurgy and quality control weren't as good back then as now.

But it remained a popular round for a long time. I'd compare it's popularity then to how popular the 243 is now, and the 243 gets many of the same complaints to this day - even here on the campfire.

I think the 100gr bullets made their introduction in the early 30's?

New Zealand employed many deer culler's after WW2 a lot of these used the old military 303 but as funds increased moved to other calibers
Many went to the 222 & 22 Hi Power & a small number went to the 250-3000 only because the 250 rifle was hard to come by down here
Their daily tallies increased with these modern rounds because it all boiled down to the hunters ability
Many of these hunters shot in excess of 30 deer a day, I know one gentleman who shot 106 in just over an hour
Cheers

Well, you guys know the truth. If more people read that article and shunned the 250, that would be more for me. Before my 99 I hunted with a marlin336 in 35. I used to shoot my deer through the front shoulders. Can't run on two broken legs. The first deer I shot with my 250 I used the same hold, and the deer took off. Follow up shot hit it at the base of the neck. The 100 gr Remington CL did not penetrate the shoulder blade(Actually, I think my first couple boxes of ammo were Winchester Silver Tips) . It did turn that whole shoulder into a black mass of jelly. Now I aim behind the shoulder or in the eye. Both shots work like a bolt of lighting. The old 35 was MODeer accurate. The 250 is MOPI accurate. That's Minute of Pigs Eye, Joe

Yes, that's exactly what I have heard about the .250 and the 87 grain bullet. Seems folks on here use it with authority though.

Charles Newton wanted Savage to introduce the caliber with a 100 grain bullet at 2800 fps because it was more effective on deer size game but Savage stuck with the 87 so they could advertise it as the first commercial cartridge to exceed 3000 fps. David

In hindsight and public opinion, it seems the 1-14 twist did/is doing more damage to the 250 than anything. I've used 1-10" 100 grain 250's to kill deer and bear and they work. Not "340 Weatherby fast" on the bear, but dead, with prejudice.
If I hunted with a 250 I'd be very careful about shot placement and probably not take the "riskier" shots at running game, etc.
As a rule, it seems like the guys that hunt with the smaller cartridges are more careful about their shooting, probably due to necessity, no? Wouldn't surprise me if they had higher percentage of kills as a result.

Proper shot placement and a well constructed bullet work every time. Shoot a deer in the foot with a 458 and you end up with a three footed deer running around. With todays bullets it's more about shot placement that 87 gr or 100 gr.

Yep, I had that same exact thing happen to me when hunting with a 99C in 284.

Never occurred to me that the 284 was underpowered. Just occurred to me to quit shooting thick bones with expanding bullets.

I saw Fireball's statement of shot placement and taking care to ensure that.

Think about that.

You're at the range on the bench. Take a breath, let it out. Take another, let some of it out and CAREFULLY press that trigger. WOW, MAN, MAN OH MAN!!!!!!!!!!! Will you JUST LOOK at that group. This gun'l shoot 1" groups all day long. Yet that same guy gets into the woods and takes any shot he has and then blames the rifle/bullet/caliber for the miss. I'll take ANY .250 I own and kill any animal I shoot at deader than a door nail. Now I WONDER why that is????????????

Practice, placement and patience.
If a hunter does these things which includes a pass on a risky shot, he will be successful more times than not.

And you said that WITHOUT a word about rifle/bullet/caliber..........GOOD man........

I never failed to kill a deer with the .222 Remington 788 I had as a kid. Most DRT! I knew I had to make good on placement, no excuses.

Hmm. Killed 2 bucks in just over an hour with my .250 and 100 gr. bullets. First time out. Both bucks took one jump and keeled over. Seemed plenty deadly to them....

If you need to use a small, weak, marginal bullet and cartridge on big game then as you write you must pass up shots and also deal with wounded game.

If that's all you can shoot then too bad.

the OP reminds me of an article I read many years ago, "the british .303 wounded more African game than any other rd."

Probably one of the oldest arguments that comes up whenever two or more hunters get together. Having killed deer for 45 or so years with everything imaginable I found pretty much anything works. The couple I lost were admittedly hit badly for which I have nobody to blame but myself- each time was with a cartridge more than suitable for the job, .30-06 and 6.5x55 for example.

LBK hit it- there's no substitute for experience in the woods. Experience gained from sitting at the shooting bench (or at the computer) means very little when it comes to putting the bead on the right spot on an animal that seldom presents a classic side-on perfect shot to you.

Personally all this debate over which bullets kill and which ones don't has me tired out. I think I shall switch to hand grenades fired by potato cannons next year. Or maybe one of those net throwing cannons they used to use on Wild Kingdom.

Interesting anecdote: when Stewart Edward White went on his extended safari in Africa in 1913, he carried one of the very first Springfield sporters in .30-06. His bullet of choice was the government full metal jacket, proclaiming that it was the one bullet that gave the most consistent kills over the course of killing dozens and dozens of animals. (I theorize that it had as much to do with the poor quality of jacketed hunting bullets available at the time as anything else. Materials, design, and quality of manufacture of jacketed bullets have improved dramatically since those dark days. That fact probably bears on the original subject of why the early .250-3000 87gr. bullet got a bum rap as a killer, a lot more so than its weight.)

The 3 P's apply to riflemen, archers or playing marbles.
Depends upon which game you choose and what level of challenge you are looking for.

Posted by a guy with less practical experience than many. What's the solution Don? Shoot 'em with a Mannlicher in 358? That would, of course, beg the question of how many legal deer a guy from CT actually sees when he is hunting in a game-poor environment like VT.

Jeff