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Campfire 'Bwana
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Doctors' kids are notorious for this... especially the ones who wanted to follow in daddy's footsteps and couldn't cut the academic rigors. Not pointing any fingers, of course... What, Med School isn't just like undergrad? Three hours of class a day and 21 hours to goof off? Cliff Notes should be enough get you through HUMAN Pathology (sarcasm inserted). They probably don't do pot cases anymore. All virtual. Fixed it, Hat. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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I meant juvenile-type diabetes, where the immune system attacks the pancreas. Is that not type 1?
There are a lot of reasons for immune system pathologies. So far they have not found a way to make person A (who has a pathological immune response) respond like person B who has no immune response to whatever given allergen.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Pete... FWIW, the AIDS epidemic came along well after the greatest push of smallpox and polio vaccination in Africa. Hep A is spread by fecal-oral contamination (human fecal contamination of drinking water), not by dirty needles.
That's not to say that poor medical hygiene doesn't play a role. The first known Ebola outbreak WAS due to nurses in central Africa re-using non-sterilized needles/syringes, the big Zaire Ebola outbreak in 1995 was greatly amplified by non-sterile surgeries, and the current west African outbreak has been amplified by non-sterile medical procedures as well.
Doc, Sorry, I got my Hep A and B mixed up. Regardless, poor hygiene practices in various African vaccine programmes are now thought to have spread AIDS, plus other diseases as you noted with Ebola. As the timeline for the emergence of HIV1 and HIV2 in Africa goes back to at least the 1950's although the "explosion" was indeed later. There was another simian virus (SV-40)that transferred from monkeys to humans via contamination polio vaccines back in the late 150s early 1960's in the US. This same contamination has been detected in Soviet oral Polio vaccines into the late 1970's. SV-40 is now common in humans, although is said to lie dormant. However, in other animals, its been linked to many different cancers especially in tumours, and has in fact been isolated in many human cancers. Regardless, it was contaminated vaccine production that allowed it to jump from monkeys to humans... Other vaccines have allegedly been contaminated with female hormones which potentially could have reduced fertility in a population of male recipients.. So while I don't buy into all the various vaccination conspiracies, vaccination programs have been far from straight forward, and their potential downsides are not always obvious or immediate.. Regards, Peter wasnt contaminated production, it was the fact that thousands of vaccines would be given out with only a couple of needles....disposable syringes werent common til later....so because of the massive vaccine drive in Africa for smallpox and other things they rapidly spread AIDs from a couple people to a hell of alot....the vaccine wasnt the problem, improperly sterilized needles between patients was.... Two different issues, one was with poor hygiene (as I actually said)a fault of the mechanics of the vaccine programme, rather than a problem with the vaccine itself, but the other issue, the cross over of the SV-40 virus from monkeys to humans was directly traced to contaminated oral polio vaccine...
Last edited by Pete E; 10/22/14.
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...wasnt contaminated production, it was the fact that thousands of vaccines would be given out with only a couple of needles....disposable syringes werent common til later....so because of the massive vaccine drive in Africa for smallpox and other things they rapidly spread AIDs from a couple people to a hell of alot....the vaccine wasnt the problem, improperly sterilized needles between patients was....
And don't forget that in Africa, as in most of the Third World, untrained merchants sell Penicillin (and other antibiotics) injections at roadside kiosks and door-to-door without making any effort to sterilize needles, syringes, or multiple-use vials of serum. Immunization injections are only part of the problem.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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PeteE, I figured you got your A and B mixed/typo'd, no big deal but wanted to be clear on HepA's fecal-oral vector...
As for SV40, yeah, that was a real Charlie Foxtrot... the contamination of oral polio vaccine didn't occur in the wild (i.e. from African monkeys to African humans), but in labs in the USA producing the vaccine virus on a substrate of homogenized monkey kidneys in the 1950's. I've seen estimates that as many as 30% of kids immunized with oral polio vaccine got SV40 virus, and this virus is associated with increased risk of developing certain kinds of cancers. Who knows what effect that has had on incidence of cancer in the US and abroad since then?
Vaccine production since then has gone from animal substrates to synthetic substrates for viral cultures, and more commonly to recombinant DNA technology that actually uses no live tissue whatsoever to maintain vaccine purity...
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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PeteE, I figured you got your A and B mixed/typo'd, no big deal but wanted to be clear on HepA's fecal-oral vector...
As for SV40, yeah, that was a real Charlie Foxtrot... the contamination of oral polio vaccine didn't occur in the wild (i.e. from African monkeys to African humans), but in labs in the USA producing the vaccine virus on a substrate of homogenized monkey kidneys in the 1950's. I've seen estimates that as many as 30% of kids immunized with oral polio vaccine got SV40 virus, and this virus is associated with increased risk of developing certain kinds of cancers. Who knows what effect that has had on incidence of cancer in the US and abroad since then?
Vaccine production since then has gone from animal substrates to synthetic substrates for viral cultures, and more commonly to recombinant DNA technology that actually uses no live tissue whatsoever to maintain vaccine purity... What I find incredible ( but perhaps not surprising?) is that Soviets continued producing the contaminated vaccine into the 1970's and the 80's even though the problem was known about. I am not sure of their reasoning/motivation behind this, but tend to lean to toward high level incompetence rather than any grand conspiracy.. This contaminated vaccine was administered not just in the USSR, but right across the Third World, where ever they had influence in fact..
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Um, yeah, Soviet public health efforts were EXTREMELY heavy-handed... except when they weren't.
The frighteningly high incidence of antibiotic-resistant TB in the former Soviet republics is another example of the failure of their public health model.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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i had to take the flu shot in the military. and without exception, it always made me ill. feverish, achy, weak, etc. something ain't right about a shot that does that.
My diploma is a DD214
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What I am just getting over where I was partially paralyzed, had my immune system attack my nerve linings, developed lesions in the brain is often referred to as the vaccination disease because it's triggered by an infection or virus and also vaccines which makes it more common in kids.
Having said that I plan on getting a flu shot and a shingles vaccine pretty soon.
Just to be clear I'm not a vaccine denier just thought it was funny in an odd way you get sick from a vaccine, but it's not really the vaccine so to speak like the autism people gripe about. Plus it's normally temporary if you don't die from it LOL.
Otto is my co-pilot.
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Campfire Regular
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What undergrad program were you in? The only other folks I saw closing down the library at night were other engineering students... Doctors' kids are notorious for this... especially the ones who wanted to follow in daddy's footsteps and couldn't cut the academic rigors. Not pointing any fingers, of course... What, Med School isn't just like undergrad? Three hours of class a day and 21 hours to goof off? Cliff Notes should be enough get you through Pathology (sarcasm inserted). They probably don't do pot cases anymore. All virtual.
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I get a flu shot every year and never had
"a touch of the flu" after. I guess different
folks in different environs have different
experiences. I trust Doc's opinion.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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What I am just getting over where I was partially paralyzed, had my immune system attack my nerve linings, developed lesions in the brain is often referred to as the vaccination disease because it's triggered by an infection or virus and also vaccines which makes it more common in kids.
Having said that I plan on getting a flu shot and a shingles vaccine pretty soon.
Just to be clear I'm not a vaccine denier just thought it was funny in an odd way you get sick from a vaccine, but it's not really the vaccine so to speak like the autism people gripe about. Plus it's normally temporary if you don't die from it LOL. I'm hoping you are doing well and get to mop up on those crappie and bass this coming spring.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Yeah probably not. Still on paid leave. Turnaround season is the spring so I imagine it would be poor form to 7 months off of word on paid leave and then take off to go fishing as soon as I get back lol.
Otto is my co-pilot.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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What undergrad program were you in? The only other folks I saw closing down the library at night were other engineering students... Organic Chemistry Couldn't do that in the library. They got all pissed off when we'd crank up the Bunsen burners.  Doctors' kids are notorious for this... especially the ones who wanted to follow in daddy's footsteps and couldn't cut the academic rigors. Not pointing any fingers, of course... What, Med School isn't just like undergrad? Three hours of class a day and 21 hours to goof off? Cliff Notes should be enough get you through Pathology (sarcasm inserted). They probably don't do pot cases anymore. All virtual.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yeah, they would have frowned on chitt getting spilled in organic chem lab crap too.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,374 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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aw, what's a little 1 1 1 trichloroethane amongst friends?
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Do you vaccinate your dogs? It's the law. Nice dodge ...are you a liberal democrat?
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Do you vaccinate your dogs? It's the law. Nice dodge ...are you a liberal democrat? Pretty sure he is. Considering he stirs naught in conservative causes here but dissent between folks, and has been inconsistent in his back stories and personal narratives, combined with his fearful disregard to even meet another member for a social event, (and based on pm's, not just me - apparently), I would say he's about the deepest shill we've got here. Odd how folks stated they could almost see his point on a few topics - contrary to conservative thought- but the inability of the mole to add any sort of personal "skin in the game" rendered them feeling he was simply a whack job, which in many of ours books could mean "liberal democrat" His dodge so duly noted above is the same event he (and some of his +1'ers that haven't realized him for an epic troll) would and have berated others for doing. (if he comments at all, he'll want to address my "conservative thought" statement as a detractor, but he can't really deny the skin in the game. To do so would render him a fraud, and all his chicanery null and void)
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've had flu shots for years. I haven't seen
a down side to them. I've never had a flu shot. I don't see the upside to them.. But that's just me. Well, my sister has never had one either and she's 73 now and healthy as a horse.. Sorry DocR - there's no question you mean the best for us all (well, most of us LOL) and I've had shots in my life for a bunch of other stuff - especially when I got into the Navy (geez, I swear I got 50 shots in 30 days..  )... My wife gets one every year; she's a nurse and it's required.. BOTH of us had the flu about two years ago and we were BOTH equally sick for about 7-9 days.. It's good to build up some anti-bodies..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I've had flu shots for years. I haven't seen
a down side to them. I've never had a flu shot. I don't see the upside to them.. But that's just me. Well, my sister has never had one either and she's 73 now and healthy as a horse.. Sorry DocR - there's no question you mean the best for us all (well, most of us LOL) and I've had shots in my life for a bunch of other stuff - especially when I got into the Navy (geez, I swear I got 50 shots in 30 days.. )... My wife gets one every year; she's a nurse and it's required.. BOTH of us had the flu about two years ago and we were BOTH equally sick for about 7-9 days.. It's good to build up some anti-bodies.. I've never ever had any type of vaccination and I am a healthy 63 year old, will be 64 shortly.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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