Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Fast twist = faster death?

I'm pretty sure people can observe reality without a laboratory.

But there will always be a handful of people that insist there is no difference in 200fps, and there will always be a handful of people that insist plastic tip bullets "don't do anything different" and there will always be a handful of people that need a pack of PhD's and a laboratory to see the advantages of a faster twist.



Travis

Can you see out that eye yet?

Travis, as a horseshoer I've fixed close to 70 foundered horses with 100% success over the last 6 years.

Don't know if you know anything about founder but basically that's suppose to be impossible!

A world renowned founder clinic from Texas is apparently fixing 7 out of 10.

So I figure what the heck I'll give them boys a call and see if they'd be willing to have me swing by.

So I call and to cut to the chase I offer to show up and I'll fix the 3 out of 10 they can't fix for free to get my foot in the door and prove what I'm explaining.

After all proof is in the pudding, Right!

So they ask me about my education as I seem to be talking somewhat backyard and farmish!

I believe the mans exact words were "you are not eucated enough for us to waist our time"

The truth is I figured out exactly what they were missing by reading there literature and fixed the first foundered horse I ever worked on and strangely enough I assured the horse owner that I was very confident I would fix the horse.

This wasn't your average foundered horse! The horse had dropped sole and coffin bone rotation to a massive degree and was diagnosed from a top ten veterinary clinic as unfixable.

I remember thinking, if Ive been fixing 10 for 10 and they fix 7 for 10.....well......who really has the proper education here?

In the end my final determination was that it really was not even about education.

It was about Common sense and the ability to see beyond immperical data and laboratories and in the box education.

Kind of like the gun world.

Shod

Cuts it just fine from where I sit.

I have all the tools needed to acquire the empirical data. All you've got is jack+schit.





Travis

Oh, so you have seen my "jack+schit" ?

It seems to me that if you shoot an animal in the right spot, with a reasonably suitable bullet, it dies pretty much straight away. I don't know what difference twist rate might make to that, past the point of the bullet being stabilised, because it has never occurred to me to wonder whether animals could get any deader.

For those of you that can't follow that metaphor, he is saying fast twist doesn't work, and anyone that believes it does, is a horses' ass...

Every time you type!


Travis

Yes there is a difference. May be noticeable and may not be depending on target, bullet and just how different the twist is.


In both ballistic testing and extensive use in animals, differences in twist can be seen. Now with some bullets out off 223's you can see the difference in small animals like Prairie dogs, coyotes, etc., but normally not on bigger animals such as deer. Monos do seem to be more consistent, or I should say show less inconsistencies with faster twists. Granted the differance between a 1/12in and 1/14in is slight, but between a 1/12in and 1/7in does show a difference with some bullets.


With most bullets it's hard to see a differance on bigger game like deer, but you can recreate the same as with 22's and varmints by using big varmint bullets. As an example- the 30cal Hornady 178gr Amax is really a big varmint bullet. It can produce very graphic wounds on deer when started around 3,000 FPS and normal 1/10 twists. With the same impacts velocity using 1/8in twist barrels wounds are noticeably bigger. Have done crop damage with two identical rifles using that bullet with the only difference being twist rate- 1/8 and 1-10. There is no mistaking which did what when looking at the deer. We're not talking a couple of animals either. Well into three figures with both. Anyone that looked at the animals could tell the differance between them, and the butcher even could figure out which was which.



There are no downsides to faster twists. However slight the differances may be, they are real, have been proven in ballistic testing and sometimes can be seen in tissue.


I'll take fast twists please.

What is this ancient 22-250 you speak of?




Travis

A 9lb push feed M70, it's out at my parent's house.

Got it brand new(1990?) from the Coast To Coast hardware store.


You guys should try the smaller bores on deer sometimes.... Very effective under the right circumstances!

Using the 178 gr example, do you lose any velocity by going from 1-10 to a 1-8 twist ?