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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,566 Likes: 1 |
It isn't that dumb of a question when you consider all the guys that believe fast twist kills faster...
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300 Likes: 1 |
Wait a minute..I just heard something zing by my head...
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 105 |
So if I'm bowhunting...should I be converting all of my arrows with straight-fletched vanes to helical to make them spin faster...and a very radical helical at that?
Which begs the question. Does a right helical kill faster than a left helical? Or does it matter which direction the animal is facing?
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Due to the aforementioned coriolis effect, your helical fletched arrows need to be twisted right north of the equator, and twisted left, south of the equator. Jeez...do we have to explain everything...?Try to keep up. Ingwe, thanks for appreciating my attempt at humor. That is priceless! Gonna have to remember that. Too funny
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 17,246 |
If one was to use enough speed and twist to generate ubermega-rpm's, could a mono-metal projectile of pin-grabber design grip an animal's hide upon impact, prior to expansion, and effectively turn said critter inside out as it passed through the animal? Think of the time saved from field dressing....
Now with even more aplomb
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,314 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 17,314 Likes: 1 |
I'd pay good money for a bullet that would stop at skinning a deer.
Screw you! I'm voting for Trump again!
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the 24HCF.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
This thread is hilarious. I agree.......lotsa guessing. Of course the bullet continues to spin after it contacts stuff. Geeeezzz....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314 |
If we assume that rotational velocity (spin) decreases at the same rate as flight velocity the bullet won't be spinning much when it contacts game , depending on range of course. And I'll bet it slows to nothing when it expands...a bullet is not a good flywheel. It's mass is not far from the center.
See if you can find any ballistic gel tests showing spiral lines in the cavity. Checkout the multiple rotations the bullet makes as it passes through a 16" length of ballistic gelletin. http://www.barnesbullets.com/videos/308_180gr_TSX_6fps_logo.mov I'd love to see a video comparing a couple blocks of gelatin. One shot with an 8" twist 223 and the other with a 12".....bullets being shot from the same box of ammo.....
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
I wonder what effect rifle torque has on ability of the general shooting population to hit well? (Faster twist means more torque.) (That is the reason all those ghetto guys are seen with the guns held sideways- that's simply the left hand torque of guns which have right hand twist that causes that. )
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,518
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,518 |
You've almost got me convinced. I too would like to see that comparison.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,314 |
True story. A guy in the shop today was buying two Glock 19's. He was holding one in each hand -- sideways. Looked him straight in the eye and told him if I saw him doing that again I wouldn't let anybody punch his paperwork in the system.
He chuckled and put them both back on the counter...
I enjoy handguns and I really like shotguns,...but I love rifles!
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,509
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,509 |
See if you can find any ballistic gel tests showing spiral lines in the cavity. What do I win? Nothin Sh1t, I'd never believed it if I hadnt seen this. its got me thinkin' 280 grain 7mm........4" twist ? the Texas heart shot might work out well it'll twist the guts up in a knot and you reach in with a pair of long nose pliers, grab the bullet and yank it all out with a quick left hand twist,assuming a rh twist rifle fired the bullet....:-)
"after the bullet leaves the barrel it doesn't care what headstamp was on the case" "The 221 Fireball is what the Hornet could have been had it stayed in school"
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,533 |
That's not entirely true, as the way I understand it with lightly jacketed varmint bullets, the added twist is essentially stressing them a bit more, causing quicker upset when they strike flesh.
I've seen the fast twist help provide more "lift" when striking small game while shooting slow and fast twist rifles of the same cartridge side by side, in such rounds as the 223, 223 AI, 220 Swift, and 243.
I'm just not convinced it really shows up on big game. "Lost in the noise" as it were. I gotta agree with this. I've shot prairie dogs with .223s, using the same ammo out of both 9twist and 12 twist barrels, and it seemed that the 9 twisted guns splatted the rats more, and there was more rotation in the parts d:^). The old Savages spun the rats more than the Howa did. Of course, the rats died regardless of the twist rate or cartridge, they just died harder with the faster rated pipes. All in good fun, of course.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
The title of this thread should be "Fast Twist = More Terminal Damage". Take the same bullet same load same velocity from a 7 twist against a 14 twist and the difference is apparent.
Exactly....it helps expand the bullet.Expanding bullets cause trauma. Trauma is what kills. Nothing mysterious.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,890 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 43,890 Likes: 7 |
"Should I do the ghetto lean? And maybe a crotch grab?" TFF! Of course, whenever possible, I also prefer to shoot "urbanite" style and hold the rifle sideways....
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
Until someone shoots a live deer standing in an MRI Scanner(if they can scan that fast), all we can do is basically guess - or look at very limited data. After a bullet's expanded, it would seem logical that the petals work like cutting edges, spinning like a saw blade. Assuming again the bullet goes more or less straight through the animal, more revolutions = a greater length of cut inside the animal. The more big blood vessels that are cut by the bullet's passing, the quicker it dies. As far as launching a varmint, I shot a cottontail once with a .25-06 (before I realized they were good to eat ). It was a 120gr factory load, out of a 1 in 10" barrel. I recover from the recoil, look up, and see a patch of fur reaching the apex of its flight, about 15 or 20 feet in the air. My buddy said, Gawd dayummmm We walked up and about half the bunny had simply vanished. 'sploding critters are highly non-linear
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 17,491 |
'sploding critters are highly non-linear
Only 'cause you mist.
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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