|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,859 |
I believe there is a God, as you stated there are lots of things that point to that conclusion, at least to me. However, that's where it stops. What this God wants, how he thinks and operates etc is a different story, and in no way related to the evidence pointing to a creative force. You have a book you believe was dictated by this God. You have what amounts to you as sufficient evidence for you to believe it. I do not. So, while we agree about the existence of a god, we don't necessarily agree about exactly who/what he is. This is the part where we really can't prove anything, one way or another. What amounts to "evidence" for one person will fail to do so for another. That's why I agree with Scott. You believe what you believe, and can't necessarily expect your evidence to be accepted by anyone else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23,453 |
We need to pray for unbelievers to have their spiritual vision enabled for the first time. So you mean arguing with them, and throwing Scripture at them, like a flaming iron dodgeball, when they are obviously not receptive, for 40+ pages, may not have been the right approach? Or, simply assuming that they aren't believers and accusing them of being liars, nearly in league with Satan, etc.?
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,117 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 25,117 Likes: 1 |
All one has to do to understand why Christians are constantly arguing with each other is look at the middle east.
The birth place. Constant turmoil. Their philosophies and teachings have lead them to each others throats since, well....forever(or 4000 years. Which ever comes first.)
Apparently you get the same results when you export their teachings.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
Somethings are a given.
You'll be helping me roll snowmen in Hell?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Scott, as a christian, you need to keep in mind that God himself says there is proof enough of His existence for ALL to see. Plenty of verses already quoted above. Check out this short article on "How God reveals Himself" https://www.gci.org/god/is2Maybe you don't believe God and choose instead to hold on to the untruth that there is no proof?? In light of physical proof, many would still not believe. Some cannot see even though it is right there. 2 Corinthians 4:4 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. We need to pray for unbelievers to have their spiritual vision enabled for the first time. That is not the proof the non believers are looking for. There is a cup sitting next to my laptop filled with fresh hot coffee. If you were here I could prove to you it is hotter than room temp just by pouring it on your lap.  I can prove a rock is harder that my head too but I am not going to do it. That is the kind of proof they are looking for. I have more proof than most of you. I have a daughter born with Down's who no longer has Down's because of prayer. I am not new at this Christian thing and I have done my homework. I have read my Bible from index to maps more time than I can remember.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9 |
We need to pray for unbelievers to have their spiritual vision enabled for the first time. So you mean arguing with them, and throwing Scripture at them, like a flaming iron dodgeball, when they are obviously not receptive, for 40+ pages, may not have been the right approach? The presentation of the gospel (scripture) is not wrong for clarification in a theological discussion. That is another deception Satan would love to perpetuate. But if you want to talk about what IS wrong, let's look at our response TO the scripture. https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-56-how-respond-god%E2%80%99s-word-luke-1129-36
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9 |
Scott, as a christian, you need to keep in mind that God himself says there is proof enough of His existence for ALL to see. Plenty of verses already quoted above. Check out this short article on "How God reveals Himself" https://www.gci.org/god/is2Maybe you don't believe God and choose instead to hold on to the untruth that there is no proof?? In light of physical proof, many would still not believe. Some cannot see even though it is right there. 2 Corinthians 4:4 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. We need to pray for unbelievers to have their spiritual vision enabled for the first time. That is not the proof the non believers are looking for. There is a cup sitting next to my laptop filled with fresh hot coffee. If you were here I could prove to you it is hotter than room temp just by pouring it on your lap. I can prove a rock is harder that my head too but I am not going to do it. That is the kind of proof they are looking for. I have more proof than most of you. I have a daughter born with Down's who no longer has Down's because of prayer. I am not new at this Christian thing and I have done my homework. I have read my Bible from index to maps more time than I can remember. I would LOVE to hear about your daughters healing sometime! What a testimony! As for the rest, again, God says, not Roy, God says, there is ample proof so that none can have an excuse not to believe. His words, not mine.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
We need to pray for unbelievers to have their spiritual vision enabled for the first time. So you mean arguing with them, and throwing Scripture at them, like a flaming iron dodgeball, when they are obviously not receptive, for 40+ pages, may not have been the right approach? The presentation of the gospel (scripture) is not wrong for clarification in a theological discussion. That is another deception Satan would love to perpetuate. But if you want to talk about what IS wrong, let's look at our response TO the scripture. https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-56-how-respond-god%E2%80%99s-word-luke-1129-36 Don't get me wrong, but you are using Scripture to tell me that not using Scripture is wrong. If your target audience isn't getting it, you need to change your delivery. Evangelizing sometimes doesn't follow a rule. People want to see it from your heart and soul, not from your recall of chapter & verse. Maybe, once the barrier has been dropped, they'll investigate the rest on their own.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,875 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,875 Likes: 1 |
Scott F, That is not the proof the non believers are looking for. You are deceived. They are not looking for proof. It is all around. Here's more evidence they reject: Why is every fossil and sample of fossil fuel able to be carbon dated? The weaker try to add a god of their own making to evolution so they can sound, what? Open minded? They sound silly to the confirmed evolutionist and the Bible creationist.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
As for the rest, again, God says, not Roy, God says, there is ample proof so that none can have an excuse not to believe. His words, not mine.
I agree, there is. But what you are missing is those asking for proof do not see our proof. They want the hot coffee and rock is hard proof.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,272 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,272 Likes: 1 |
They sound silly to the confirmed evolutionist and the Bible creationist. Science and critical thinking usually throws 'em for a loop.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,222 |
I believe there is a God, as you stated there are lots of things that point to that conclusion, at least to me. However, that's where it stops. What this God wants, how he thinks and operates etc is a different story, and in no way related to the evidence pointing to a creative force. You have a book you believe was dictated by this God. You have what amounts to you as sufficient evidence for you to believe it. I do not. So, while we agree about the existence of a god, we don't necessarily agree about exactly who/what he is. This is the part where we really can't prove anything, one way or another. What amounts to "evidence" for one person will fail to do so for another. That's why I agree with Scott. You believe what you believe, and can't necessarily expect your evidence to be accepted by anyone else. Yep!
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856 |
You Christians are scary.
BOO! Sorry, could not resist.  I read every reply and found it interesting. I would like to express a few thoughts. Not all who call themselves Christians are necessary Christians. Many time reading these replies I saw requests for proof. There is no proof either way. Let me say it again, there is no proof either way. Arguing proofs there is a God or there is no God is a senseless waste of time and effort and I refuse to be a part of it. Faith as well of the lack of faith is a personal thing. I have faith in God and a living Saviour in Jesus Christ. That is my choice and no argument will change my mind. That is me. If anyone wants to know about my faith I will gladly do my best to reply. If you don't ask I won't bring it up. I will not thump my Bible or attempt to cram my faith down anyone’s throat. Carry on folks. Scott, i would not refer to posting scripture or my interpretation of it on the internet thumping the bible or cramming my religion down anyones throat. Ezekiel 33 charges us with telling others about Christ that the price of their sin will not be blood from our hand. Also, Acts 1:8 and Matthew 28:19-20 directs us to tell the good news. No unbeliever is required to read this thread though the discomfort resulting from doing so may result in rocks being thrown at the messinger. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Scott F, That is not the proof the non believers are looking for. You are deceived. They are not looking for proof. It is all around. Here's more evidence they reject: Why is every fossil and sample of fossil fuel able to be carbon dated? The weaker try to add a god of their own making to evolution so they can sound, what? Open minded? They sound silly to the confirmed evolutionist and the Bible creationist. There are two sides to every argument and this debate has been historically going on longer than any other... even longer than which came first, the chicken or the egg..
 Again, you can't prove it's the truth. And in a way we are all "gods" of our lives, ever heard of free will?
I agree. God doesn't like religion either.
Please prove this. Travis Fixed it for ya. I'm not the one that believes that God has a 'SPECIAL' place for me because I'm SPECIAL. God has a 'special' place for us all because HE is 'special'. . Among the globe's six billion people, there are something like 700+ religions. Each and every one of them proclaiming it is the one and only true religion. Everyone who doesn't believe in their God or Buddha, or Allah or Great Mog will go to hell or the equivalent. Or Detroit, perhaps.
If you're playing the odds, maybe you'd better believe in all of them, equally.
Or not. There's only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God knows a man's heart, and will render judgement accordingly.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466 |
Scott F, That is not the proof the non believers are looking for. You are deceived. They are not looking for proof. It is all around. Here's more evidence they reject: Why is every fossil and sample of fossil fuel able to be carbon dated? The weaker try to add a god of their own making to evolution so they can sound, what? Open minded? They sound silly to the confirmed evolutionist and the Bible creationist. There are two sides to every argument and this debate has been historically going on longer than any other... even longer than which came first, the chicken or the egg..
Again, you can't prove it's the truth. And in a way we are all "gods" of our lives, ever heard of free will?
I agree. God doesn't like religion either.
Please prove this. Travis Fixed it for ya. I'm not the one that believes that God has a 'SPECIAL' place for me because I'm SPECIAL. God has a 'special' place for us all because HE is 'special'. . Among the globe's six billion people, there are something like 700+ religions. Each and every one of them proclaiming it is the one and only true religion. Everyone who doesn't believe in their God or Buddha, or Allah or Great Mog will go to hell or the equivalent. Or Detroit, perhaps.
If you're playing the odds, maybe you'd better believe in all of them, equally.
Or not. There's only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God knows a man's heart, and will render judgement accordingly. What' yer point?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Scott, i would not refer to posting scripture or my interpretation of it on the internet thumping the bible or cramming my religion down anyones throat.
Neither would I but over the years it is a name I have been called here. Kind of funny because it is something I try to avoid. My witness is my life not what I preach on street corners.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466 |
Scott, i would not refer to posting scripture or my interpretation of it on the internet thumping the bible or cramming my religion down anyones throat.
Neither would I but over the years it is a name I have been called here. Kind of funny because it is something I try to avoid.
My witness is my life not what I preach on street corners. Most of the folks I would call Christians have this attitude. I would put more faith in hearing your testimony than the "preachers".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Thank you Sir. You would be welcomed at my campfire any time and not just so I could thump my Bible.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,466 |
Thank you Sir. You would be welcomed at my campfire any time and not just so I could thump my Bible. That's my point. And If I ever make it to the West coast you and your wife would top my list of folks to meet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,347 Likes: 9 |
Well, I guess since this is a thread for guys that like to quote scripture and "preach", the one's that don't want to hear that have been forewarned.
As long as the topic is anything like, "What about those who never heard the Word", I'll continue to look at the Word for the answer to that, and to answer critics. It will be very uncomfortable for some, but I will make no apologies for it, in the context of this thread.
All that said, I really appreciate RWE's thoughtful reply. It is pushing me to search a little deeper about the topic of the Word as it relates to an unbeliever, vs. a believer. Thank you for that RWE.
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
141 members (Angus55, 160user, 257 roberts, alwaysoutdoors, 35, 10ring1, 18 invisible),
1,518
guests, and
914
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,209
Posts18,503,892
Members73,994
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
