I am planning a hunt to BC spring 2014 for black bear. We are in process of choosing a guide,(thanks for all the help with that!). I am afraid that my Rem 700 .270 is not enough gun, so, any opinions on what caliber would be the best. I am thinking of future big game, ie moose, maybe grizzly, possible mountain goat or sheep. I know that there is no magic gun for all of those situations, but what would be your suggestions?? I appreciate the help! Jeff

Load your 270 with a 150 partition or a 140 tsx, and go kill a bear.

Sounds like you "need" to build a .338-06!

Or this .

Send me your 270 and I'll see that it's properly disposed of.

Last season one of the parties in our camp nailed two black bear with his 06. Both exhibited obvious signs of hard hits, and neither was ever recovered.

I dropped one in it's tracks using a 6mm Rem and an 85 grain slug.

Use the 270. My wife hammers elk with her's, and bear don't pack bullet proof vests.

I hunt bear with a 444. The hornady 265 grain or Buffalo bore 270, 300 or 335 grain work great right out of the box and if ya reload you can even bring that up a notch.

I absolutely LOVE that chambering, but his .270 is more than enough gun to do the job...

But if he just wants something else then he can't go wrong with that!

No black bear will ever be able to tell the difference between a .270 150 gr. Nosler Partition and a bullet from a .338/06. If you want to buy a new rifle because it is more powerful on paper than your .270, by all means go ahead, but just remember that bears cannot read.

Any idea what went wrong?

This^

I think you're missing the most important point. He "NEEDS" to buy a new gun, because his .270 is inadaquate.

It's plenty.It makes them go "all loose"....You should ask people who have actually shot black bear with a 270....

Welcome to the CF!

Plus, the 270 is like a 70s porn star with a [bleep] of bush. Just not cool anymore.

You guys are a hoot! Thanks for all the info. I was really just going on what was written on the outfitters websites, so The 270 will be going with me. Just wondering, would the 270 be big enough for moose??
thanks, Jeff

Plenty. I've talked to Canadians who swear by their .270's and 150 grain Core-Lokts for moose. One guy claimed he penetrated a bull from stem to stern with that load.

Your 270 is more than adequate for black bear and is the classic sheep cartridge.

Make sure you can shoot your rifle well, the rifle itself is shooting well, and that you are familiar with the anatomy of your quarry.

If you make a mess of a critters lungs it dies. If you can't hit the lungs - or brain - you may want to have something that will go through the shoulder bones and muscles and then into the lungs.

You don't always get a good view of the side of the critter. An outfitter/guide wants you to be able to take the animal from any good shot, so they will recommend a larger than needed round for liability when things don't work out as expected.

So, yes a .270 will take a moose or black bear as long as you do your part and use a good bullet and shoot the lungs. Good bullet is a very subjective term these days.

Kids up here in AK are taking moose and black bears with a .243, so you can do it with your .270.

I think a 300 magnum (any) covers those species well, also giving you good range capability. Maybe a little light for the grizzly. I like the 300WSM because it is light rifles.

That is my recommendation for something new. The 270 should be fine though.

For just black bear and grizzlies I would go 338, 35 Whelen, 350 Rem, 45/70, 325 WSM, 375, 9.3, 358, 444... in a rifle and sights for the terrain. IMO. Why take something smaller if you do not have to?

Shoot a good bullet and you will be fine. Have a great hunt!

Read this thread if you think your 270 isn't enough and see what scenarshooter is running.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6861040/1

I use a 358 Norma, now, but my 300 works pretty good, and so did that 308 a couple years ago on blackies. One of the guys I hunt with carries a 270 for moose, and doesn't have any complaints, and he has shot lots of moose. Shot placement is key, regardless, but bullet construction helps a whole bunch also. Stay off the shoulder, I had a big blackies shoulder stop a 200g partition out of my 300 at 400+ yards. BEHIND THE SHOULDER, just like deer, destroy the plumbing and your all good.

For those who ask why I have a 358 Norma, just cause, and we have big brown beasts. Just one look at a track will get you to wondering if the hole in the end of your barrel is big enough.

Moosemke: I was not onsight, but in both instances the bear did a few spins bitting at the impact sight and then bailed off of steep hogbacks heading down into northslope timber. Extremely rugged ground with slopes dropping about 2,500 ft for every mile out. The shooter and his accompanying buddy were able to track to the drainage below but lost sign at that point. In both instances they put in about 6 hrs of effort with follow up for birds the subsequent morning.

My guess would be poor shot placment that might not have touched bone with potentially a failure to expand. I took my bear face on entering mid throat and breaking its neck at the shoulder/neck junction. No exit.

9.3x62 that is what I will be using although your 270 is more than up to the task.

Shot my last moose with my 270 and 150gr Nosler Partitions. He didn't know what hit him and dropped like a bag of hammers.

Once again guys, many thanks. Now, thinking again about outfitters. I have gotten some recommendations for Fredlund Guide Service. Anybody have any experience with him? Seems like a straight up kinda guy. Any experiences will help. thanks again Jeff

The 223 is a proven black bear thumper so no reason the 270 ain't.

I spent a fair amount of time in the ABC islands so I don�t question your choice of cartridges at all. I�ve always admired and been intrigued with the .358 Norma.

Years ago I hunted deer on Admiralty carrying a .338 Win and would switch loads to 300 grain Barnes�s originals when packing meat.

I shot my first black bear with a .30-30 and 170 grain Remington core-lokts, so I�d think your .270 Win (with an appropriate bullet) is more than adequate.

I�ve always hunted alone in bear country so I prefer heavy bullets (.338). Unless you�re looking for an excuse to buy a new rifle (I like the idea of the .338-06) your .270 will do fine for all of the game you�re mentioned (as long as the brown bear/ grizzly hunt is guided).

I have friends that have far more experience than myself that say that they would not hunt sheep or goats in rugged country with anything less than a .300 Win because they�ve had animals travel (a short distance, but) enough to be inaccessible. I�ve also seen a wounded (but standing) moose take a .30-06 180 grain behind the shoulder at 15 feet and not even blink.

Thumper? Killer perhaps but not thumper.

If your looking for a good place to hunt spring black bear, my buddy hunted with Nanika Lake outfitters last Spring and bagged a beautiful 7'. Might be worth checking out.

While up there,I have been told of more than one hunter who got cuffed around(or worse)by brown bear disputing possession of meat.....some of the stories will make your skin crawl.Why I often think a 338,358,or 375H&H makes a really good choice for deer hunting on the ABC's,assuming you'd have the time to use it in that rainforest and alders.

This is a whole lot different situation than sniping a tundra grizzly in open country where a minimalist,small bore approach will get you by.

But that's brown bear....blacks shot with lighter ordinance have given little trouble so long as vitals were hit.

BobinNH,

My heavy caliber comments were directed to �glenninjuneau� and were indeed off the thread topic pertaining to black bears. I made a separate post to the OP mentioning that the first black bear I shot was with a .30-30 and that his .270 was more than adequate.

I�ve read through several of the �Control Feed vs. Push Feed� threads. One aspect I�ve never seen touched on was when packing meat through big bear country is that if you get blindsided, bowled over and batted around it�s nice to have a gun that will still function when laying on your side or upside-down.

Dennis

Sourdough: While there I hoped never to have to find out.

The 700 design is not enough gun!

Get a rifle with CRF (control round feed) so that it will not double feed and jam and a M70 type safety.

What are the ranges there for the black bear shooting?

Broken 700 extractor:

Regardless of what rifle I have in hand, my bear spray is alway close at hand. Its so much easier to "spray and pray" with bear spray than any bolt action. My minimum caliber for black bear would have to be the 260 Rem, with a GOOD bullet, and backed up with something a little bit larger just for insurance. If I were hunting over bait the good old 30/30 would be my first choice, without hesitation. For a spot and stalk hunt I want something with a little more reach. The 338/06 would be an outstanding compromise, 180's for reach out and touch em, and 250's for up close in your face action. Besides, 5 rounds in the mag plus one in the go hole would be hard to beat in 338/06, my 300 only holds 2 down, my 358 holds 4 down. Good luck! Have fun! And take lots of pictures!

A .270 with good bullets is considered fully adequate for both black bear and moose around here. It was on the internet that someone decided that a .270 was too light for them. Haven't seen very many moose shot on the internet, but have seen quite few killed with a .270 in real life.
The .270 strikes me as a "minimum" adequate cartridge for moose, but there is very little extra benefit to slightly larger rounds like a 30-06 or a .300 magnum in my limited experience. More decisive moose cartridges include the .338 WM, .35 whelen, 9.3x62, with heavy bullets. One of the few things that big heavy bullets might do a little better than a .270 / 150gr. is plough through a moose humerus and stay on course.
If you decide you "need" a better bear and moose rifle, just disregard the stuff about the .270 being adequate and have fun shopping and shooting!

Actually, I think it was on paper and ink many years ago, and it's carried over to this very day!

I geuss maybe I should stop hunting bears with my push feed rifles.....you never know, I may have to shoot one while standing on my head......good lord!

Nothing wrong with 270 Win .Just know where an how far u can shoot
If 300 yards great ,If 200 yards stay there Bu usely on these hunt it 25 to 50 yards or less even a 130 Game King will work . Like said a new gun go after a 300 WBY great gun

I double dog dare ya ! laffin'

and I bet ya could do it too!

I better sell all my Remington and Weatherby's..are you serious??

The 270 and a Nosler PT is a good choice though I do like the 338-06 suggestion.

Nope, he's stupid.

I shot my 3 bear with a .270 win./130 gr Rem. core-loc bullets. The first one was 100 lb bear in the head. DRT. Second bear I shot broadside through the lungs. It blew out a piece of rib on it's way out. It hit no other bone. The bear ran off 125 yds and there was very little blood. A bear is very hard to track with leaves on the trees. I found the bear but if I had to look 5 more minutes it would have spoiled cause I never would have found it that night. It was 224 gutted. A nice young male. I decided to never use a .270 Win for bear again and a 45-70 gov. would make a bigger hole for better blood trails. Four years later I shot another bear with my .270 win., only 107 lbs gutted but another head shot and DRT. Last year my 25 yr. old son got a kill tag and said he only wanted to use his .270 Win. I went with 150 gr Hornady. At 18 yds quartering a bit to him he blasted through the front shoulder, blew the heart to pieces and out the bottom. The bear went 20 ft and was 206 lb gutted. I will shoot through front shoulders from now on to keep them from running. I am sure any other gun would not have done better. The load was IMR 4350/ 53gr 150 gr. Hornady interlock, 22 bucks a 100 pack. Just my experience.

Jeff, I suspect that your .270 is plenty of gun.

That said, I've used black bear as a great excuse for a bigger gun! My son uses a .30-06, and (ahem) I used a .375 H&H with a 260 gr Nosler. Did a fine job at a tad over 300 yards... Blood trail? Yeah, it was about two feet wide and eight or ten feet long, ending in a very dead bear.

Did I "need" a .375? No, of course not! But it was a great excuse and a lot of fun. One of these days I may even smack an elk, or hopefully a moose with it!

Enjoy your hunt - and get the bigger rifle if you want it!

Regards, Guy

Yeepers, real world here if a fella can't get it done with a .270 and or questions the .270's capability as a black bear round then I say it's time to take up ping pong or something else...

Amazes the crapola out of me (well not really) that there's people in the world who can be so inexperienced as to actually think that the .270 somehow aint quite enough gun.

This semi rant isn't directed towards the OP either and welcome to the Fire by the way.

Now if a fella can't take out 100 lb rockchucks that hibernate with a .270 then I say make a move towards a 223 and a 64 PP!

Dober

30-06

Sounds like we should be helping this new campfire friend to rationalize buying a big bore rifle. The pic below is from a small black bear, maybe 130 lbs. live weight. Think about how much bigger the claws (and teeth) of a full size bear would be and let your imagination drive selection of your new bear rifle!

Great advice guys, Keep it coming!

Deer have nasty sharp pointy hooves and antler tines that could skewer you completely through. Does that mean you need to pack a 416 Rigby for deer?

Killed my black bear in Alaska with my 30.06...190 gain

I've heard that terminology somewhere.


I killed one with a slow, soft 45-70 slug one time; right through both shoulders; went straight down. Then recovered enough after a few seconds to plow its way off into the forest without the use of its front end. Unlike many of the ungulates often do, bears can fight 'the inevitable' and sometimes make their recovery a bit more challenging. Nothing wrong with a 270, but never assume they will just lie down where you poke them either. Tracking ain't just a convenient skill to have.

Well now I think ill relate a story about one of my blak bear hunts and you al can decide for youselves whatgun you would like to carry. Here baiting isn't legal. Ichoose to still hunt for bear and the terrainn is mountain Forrest and wet lands. Mighty thick in spots. Anyway I use a single shot rifle with spare ammo on my pack belt. I had taken my pack off to sit and have a coffee and I heard a noise behind me, I stepped out around a tree I was sitting against and a nice bear stepped out maybe 20 yards away. I fired and the bear turned right towards me and charged. I reached for another round but the ammo was laying on the ground with my pack. I grabbed the rifle like a ball bat and stepped behind the tree just as the bear ran past. It went maybe another 20 yards past me and went down. I retrieved a bullet and put another in him and when he twitched still another. Later I was to discover that my first shot with the 270 gr. 444 broke both front shoulders and lodged just under the skin on the far side. Ow it was able to run is beyond me. As to the charge it may have been simply a mattervof the bear turning into the shot as they often do and it may have been unaware of me. At any rate shooting a bear at long distance or from an elevated stand is one thing but for up close and personal bear I like big bore. For this type of bear hunt I wil pass on the .223's, 270 or 30-30's.

Adirondackbushwhack,
Great story!

Since he ran past, you are probably correct about why he ran toward you. Sometimes we have had bears and other game "charge" or run toward us when they hear the echo of a shot off a wall of timber at the edge of a clearcut, or off a bluff, etc. The echo is closer to them than the actual shot and they apparently run from that sound.

A parrallel story: An acquaintance of limited hunting experience but deep pockets was after a black bear with an old wolfer friend of mine. The proper novice had his new 375 H&H (and his grizzled companion had a .243 for back up!) The hunter missed his first shot at 40 yards and the bear ran straight toward him, apparently confused by the sound in a ravine/bowl. The hunter and bear were both scared and when the bear realized he was running toward a man, he reversed course. The hunter put a Nosler Partiton in his hind end that stopped under the hide on his forehead. I helped with the skinning. Shot him right between the eyes!

Bear killing calibers IME: tire iron, old style Bear razorhead from a recuve bow, compound bows & various high tech arrows, .22 long rifle, 22-250, .243, 6mm Rem., 25-06, 6.5 Swede, 270, 280, 7mm Rem. mag., 30-30, 30-06, .300 Win. mag, 338 Win. mag, 375 H&H, .44 mag. pistol;. 12 guage shotgun. I haven't done all the shooting, and have likely left out one or two. 270 will do.

If you want a new rifle it is a prime opportunity: As Rahm Emmanual says, never let a good reason to buy a rifle go to waste!

One added comment, dead serious, all joking aside: When hunting the wet side of BC, no snow and virtually impossible tracking surface for a soft footed animal, I REALLY want a blood trail. An exit hole more than doubles chances of the critter leaking enough to track on duff, moss, etc. That is more a function of bullet than of caliber.

30-30 is a KEEPER!

Sherwood

Thank you Okanagan. I enjoyed your story as well and it points to one of the enjoyable parts of hunting, you never know what is going to happen.

I've long thought that animals, whitetail anyway, are not afraid of the sound of gunfire but rather are startled, not by the sound of a shot, but rather by the bullet striking something close to them or some movement of some kind. I've come to beleive that an animal is more likely to be alerted by the working of a bolt than they are from the sound of a rifle being fired. In the case of your friends bear I would guess that the bullet struck something behind the bear causing it to run towards your friend. I've in fact testeed my little theory and while doe were close by I've fired my rifle into the air. The result was that they didn't react in any way. Never tested it on bear though.

I am in complete agreement about wanting/needing a blood trail but I take a different tactic. I have taken the position that I want a good blood trail even if complete pass through is not attained for some reason. To accomplish this I believe is a function of caliber. A minimum caliber of 35 is required for my idea of punching a nice leaky entrance hole into an animal and a flat nosed bullet makes a nicer entrance hole than a pointy one. I or my frieds have shot game with many cals from .243 to my 444 and there has come a time with every caliber that pass through was not achieved for whatever reason, hence my desire for a big entrance hole.

I have hunted bears a lot and have hunted them in BC. The last outfitter I went hunting with said that they recommend a 30-06 as a sensible minimum. I get to see about 10 bears a year killed, not as many as some but a lot more than most.

I feel that the type of country you are hunting in dictates your choice in caliber to some degree. If you are hunting in thick stuff where a blood trail would be nice (they seldom drop at the shot) then a larger caliber is preferred. My buddy kills a bear every year and the last three have been killed by his 270WSM because it is his lightest rifle and we typically hike in several miles. He has had to track them as far as 300 yards for some reason. I told him it is a bad luck rifle! I shot mine with a 260AI this past season but it was in open country and I could pick my shot and watch him run- which he did. I found a enough blood to track him down and finish him off. I didn't get both lungs, only one.

I am going to hunt with a bigger rifle next season- at least for bear. I want them to stay where I shoot them. That is reason enough. Sure, a 270 is 'adequate' for black bears but it isn't ideal. A 30-06 is a nice step up and a 300 magnum would make more sense seeing as you already have the 270. My experiences in BC were in thick timber. I used a 30-06 with 180 Partitions. In Alaska I used a 375 H&H as it was an area with more grizzlies that blacks.

Use this excuse to get a new rifle. Don't get something exotic for which you will not be able to find ammo (338-06 et al). Get a medium caliber or 30 caliber magnum. Knock the soup out of that bear!!

Dennis-I find it curious that you've had runners on black bruins via the 270 WSM. Which slug is your friend using and how far have they been running (normally)?

Thx
Dober

You nailed it, dennisinaz. We hunt bears in wet jungle and I prefer a .30 or larger in our area because of my experience seeing a number of bears killed with .243-6mm. Larger bores aren't neccessary to kill a black bear, but to help find it if it runs.

Good bullets push on through, and larger diameter ones usually make a bigger hole and leak more. If we have to blood trail, the bigger the hole the better. Black bears are nortorious for plugging exit holes with fat, especially Fall bears, so large exit holes are good. Anchor the bear on the spot with the first shot if you can. If that does not happen a blood trail is helpful anywhere and essential in some jungles.

Our mileage does vary!

(This topic reminds me of sheep hunting in grizzly country: a sheep is easy to kill and doesn't require a .338, but that is what most sheep hunters in Northern BC were carrying. The purpose for the .338 wasn't to kill sheep but for a secondary reason. Ditto for larger calibers on black bear in thick brushy country with no dirt to leave tracks: the purpose is not killing power but the secondary reason of tracking/finding power.)

I've killed bears with a 3006, a 308, a 338wm, a 416 Rigby,and I've seen them killed with a dozen more cartridges, they all work and I'm sure your 270 will. As others have said your 270 is fine, use a good bullet and place it well. More important than the cartridge is placement of the bullet on a bear.

Bears are funny because it's all good until it's not all good and then it goes poorly rather fast. What I mean is that 9 out of 10 will have the good manners to drop or run a short way and drop, but every now and then you get a bear with an ill natured disposition.

I shot a bear a few years ago with my 338wm. At 50 odd yards, double lung, broke a shoulder, the bear took off. At about 100 yards, near the tree line I yelled at him, he stopped and looked at me, I put another through the lungs and he came straight for me. While he never made it his intent seemed clear.

When we cleaned him both shots had gone through the lungs and pulped the heart and lungs up, he just didn't care for about a minute.

Another one that a hunting partners, cousins, son wounded (his first bear) we went into some really thick stuff after. From his tracks he kept button hooking back to watch us. My partner mentioned to be cautious. I spotted him at about 25 feet coming around the root ball of a fallen tree then towards us. I double lunged him with the Rigby and he dropped in his tracks.

Another one was chasing a guy around a cold deck pile and one shot from a 308 dropped him in his tracks.

My point is that sometimes they drop and sometimes they don't and with the exception of the Rigby from 270 to 338wm there doesn't seem to be much difference in how fast they go down. I think the disposition of the individual bear makes more of a difference.

This is why I hunt elk and moose with my 338wm.

If there is anyplace wetter than SE Alaska, I don't know of it. Last several fell to 25 calibers. Bear die easy.

Agreed...

I've heard that before. In fact I felt the same way until one didn't die easily then I changed my whole outlook. Ten drt animals doesnt mean number 11 wont take flight to parts unknown in my experiance.

Agreed, regardless of the whole through the critter. They do seem to get more [bleep] over little fast slugs though, and I stick with them.

One of my favorite rifles is nice little Sako in 25-06. Shoots fantastic is light and doesnt kick me in the shoulder, just a joy to shoot and in many cases does an unbelievable job of hammering game. But I rarely use it and choose my relatively heavy hard kicking 444 for only one reason, it hits harder, at woods hunting distances, than any other rifle I have and does the best job of putting them down quickly and puts the biggest entrance holes in them. Certainly my 25-06 kills and in many cases vary quickly, but not as quickly as does the 444 and based on that I choose the 444 over all of my other hunting rifles.

And I carried a .338 Win hunting deer solo and packing meat on Admiralty Island. Arguably the densest population brown population in the world, one per square mile (once you subtract out the uninhabitable portion (the bare rock in the mountains) the number exceeds far one brown bear per square mile). But some of our friends in Montana (that don�t even live in grizzly country) are bullies and pretend to know it all. That island is one quarter the size of a county in Montana, but has more brown/grizzly bears than the entire lower 48.

BTW - whatever rifle you use, a bear rug makes a real nice addition to the house decor:



Regards, Guy

The critters would agree

Cool.

Very nice, I am looking forward to this!

I think the last three he shot were with 150 Bergers. One of the bears was 600 lbs and the bullet just didn't get in deep enough. Finally killed it at 30 feet. Squared just over 7'. I didn't see the shots on the other ones so can't comment on his shooting. He did take his 7RUM out this past August and shot one at 600 and he dropped at the shot- right through the heart. That was a 180 Berger.

I think he is becoming a better long range shooter and more patient with his shots. Not saying anything necessarily wrong with the 270- just a combination of factors which makes us treat it as a jinx.

I don't know why, but of all the animals I have guided and hunted, the bears have always been the slowest to die! I have seen some quick kills too- my son's bear two years ago was dead at the shot- 150 yards, 180 Norma Oryx from his 308.

open or closed mouth ?

We drive the mountains of northern PA for bear. We usually get 20 guys together and start pushing the laurel and the sidehills. Lots of times the bear are seen by the drivers first and are running. Even when they come past the standers they are running and full of adrenaline. Shooting a placid bear who is peacefully feeding is a lot different than shooting one fueled up on adrenaline. We've killed plenty but lost plenty as well. 30-30's, .35 Rems, .308's, and .270's have been responsible for most of the long blood trails (and I do mean long)that fizzle out with no bear at the other end. The .30-06's,7mm and .300 mags have been more reliable killers. Now these bears have ranged in size from under 100 pounds to nearly 700 pounds. And this is a sampling of at least twenty bear I've been there for the shooting of and one of my own.
Now I remember one instance with a .30-06 that the bear got away. The hunter was using 150 grain bullets (wouldn't of been my choice) in his pump 760 and he emptied his gun at close to a 400 pounder. We couldn't find the bear and the next day another party killed the bear. Apparently the original shooter hit it twice in the shoulder and twice in the guts and the next day it was still on it's feet. Another time that jumps out at me a sow and two cubs came past one of the guys and the sow stepped ove rthe log the guy was sitting on and stopped. He shot her in the shoulder at a distance of 20 yards and she took off. We all felt pretty good about the situation but we bloodtrailed that bear for close to a mile and lost all blood.
Another time my BIL shot a really big boar in the shoulder with his 7mm mag at 50 yards and the bear made it a couple hundred yards and was finished off by another group.

So it all depends on where you are bear hunting, if the bear are peaceful and undisturbed they can be easy to kill but if hunting pressure has them on the run they can be a real bear (pardon the pun) to bring down. My own bear took five shots from my .32 Special at twenty yards before he succumbed.

I mentioned shooting black bear with a .30-30, but I�m used to being the only hunter for miles around and being able to pick my shots.

I�ve never envisioned hunting as you described, but given the a catch-as-catch-can element with snap shots at less than desirable angles a .30-06 (as you suggested) with good 180 grainers sounds like a sensible minimum. As well as the cartridges you mentioned I would think the .358 Win, .35 Whelen and .45-70 (if range is not a problem) might be good candidates.

North America is a big chunk of real estate and I think posters on this forum sometimes forget that fellow posters may have a very different reality.

Interesting, and surprising way to hunt black bears.

FWIW, I'd take the .270 of the original poster if that's all I had for hunting black bear, and not feel handicapped. I have bigger and take it however, when hunting bear on purpose. I've never had any trouble killing nor finding a bear that I've shot, though was glad for a good blood trail on an archery bear of mine that went 75 yards in brushy timber.

OTOH I have trailed 8 wounded bears for other people that were difficult to track. We lost three of those due to nothing to follow on moss, duff, etc. Two of those I am sure died, the other I am pretty sure survived.

I'm confident that I can kill a black bear with a .22 rimfire-- but I'd rather you take a larger bore If I'm going to help you track it!

The vast majority of my life (and hunting) was spent north and west of you and I have never imagined the scenario MooseMike described, but if that�s the way it�s done in Pennsylvania his caliber choices are appropriate.

My original post was �I shot my first black bear with a .30-30 and 170 grain Remington core-lokts, so I�d think your .270 Win (with an appropriate bullet) is more than adequate�.

I�m certain you could kill a bear with a .22 rimfire. A Cree Indian in Northern Ontario told me 45 years ago that the first moose he killed was with a .22, to quote �I figured 15 shots in the ribs would kill any thing�. I myself as a youth used to think if I ran into a black bear while grouse hunting (the seasons coincided) I would give it a load of birdshot in the face to blind it until I had a chance to dig the slugs out of my pockets. But for many decades now I�ve thought that the game we kill deserve the best (quickest) death we can give it.

I hope I wasn�t too heavy handed when I called out some our Montanan friends on this thread earlier, but they are really big fish in a small pond by comparison and have no right to belittle other posters. I also know our Canadian friends are far too polite to be confrontational when in fact they are living the real deal.

Dennis

Hunters are usually pretty unlaxed about such stuff and the experienced ones do what they want anyway, while swapping yarns and tucking away what we can learn from others.

A friend of mine in high school killed a pretty fair sized black bear with a .22 long rifle. He was grouse hunting with a .22 and came on a bear eating huckleberries in a clear cut. He rested on a stump for precsion and shot the bear at the base of his ear at 40 feet.

I don�t doubt for a minute!

I�ve always had great affection for the Canadian people ever since the Vietnam era when I was sixteen and the law for alcohol in the states was 21 years old and the Canadians would take a poorly forged note from my your mother.

There were many times I�ve crisscrossed your country and wished I could put out roots somewhere between northern Ontario and Alaska. I�ve driven the Yellow Head and Highways 1, 37 & 97 among others in B.C.

The hunting you just described would really suck- so many people in the woods that they shoot each others animals- holy hell.

When I bear hunt, I never see a sole unless it is someone I bring with me! Bears are unmolested unless the smell me!

I've hunted black bear twice in British Columbia with John Sievers.

http://www.bchuntingadventure.com/about-bchuntingadventure.html

Reasonable distance shots... 200 yards or less. I took my first with a .375 H&H and my second with a .458 Lott.

I just hate being under-gunned. In truth, any good rifle shooting premium bullets (A-Frames, TBBC, TSX, etc.) will take down a black bear. My current love that I think is the perfect black bear rifle is the .338 Federal.

As I posted above I had never imagined or conceived of those kinds of hunting conditions and I�ve always hunted areas far more remote than you, (and it would also be easy to take cheap shots at someone using African cartridges on black bear), but I would never say that as it�s not my place to piddle on anyone�s parade.

Does it make you feel big to belittle someone?

Where�s the fun in owning rifles if you can�t go out and use them. I�d much rather see someone be over gunned (as long as the marksmanship doesn�t suffer) than the �How low can you go� threads we often see on this forum.

I think you�re spot on in your thoughts of a .388 Federal (or a .338-06) for black bear. It�s a good balanced of power and trajectory with an excellent selection of bullets.

I can vouge for what moosemike describes. That's they way it is here. I wish we could spot and stalk!

That is the problem - marksmanship often starts to suffer when folks start using rifles generating somewhere around 20 ft. lbs. of recoil.

After a shoulder injury and surgerys I was feeling the kick from my Marlin 444s. To avoid developing a flinch as well as provide some relief for my shoulder I switched to an Encore with a flex tech stock. It didn't hurt that I like single shot rifles either. Anyway, that stock made all the difference to my bad shoulder and makes me think that new technology should allow hunters to use much more powerful rifles than they would with a stealer butt plate. No sence in letting all those breakthroughs go to waste.

True. But we don't notice it as much here in PA as most of our bear are killed within 30 yards. You usually can't see past that in the laurel. I once was putting on a drive through laurel higher than my head which you had to pick your way through and at times crawl. I heard what sounded like a tractor trailer mowing down the laurel right back in my direction. I realized instantly it was a huge bear that was used to being driven and was breaking back through the drive (gutsy move but it works). I had another driver 20 yards to my right and the bear split the difference between us. 10 yards away from me and I never saw it but one brief flash of black. The other driver said that he couldn't see it at all and it got back through the drive without a shot fired. 10 yards away and I never got a good look at him!
As I mentioned before the bear I did shoot was at 20 yards and I also passed one up (boy did that make the guys mad. Don't ever pass a bear up when people are working their butts off to get you a shot) because it was too small and that was at 25 yards. At these ranges it just doesn't take a Sub MOA rifle with a marksmen behind it and guys usually get away with overgunning themselves.
I might also add that in the last ten years the .45-70 has been taking over for this type of hunting.

I believe you both of you fully. Moose Mike did a good job describing the conditions you are up against and a good justification for calibers under those conditions.

I just don�t get it when forum members feel the need to come off highhanded and belittle fellow posters.

Quote from a previous post.
�North America is a big chunk of real estate and I think posters on this forum sometimes forget that fellow posters may have a very different reality�.

The black bears shot with the .375 HH & the .458 Lott were water under the bridge and I didn�t see any need to comment.

The focus of my post was really to encourage his pursuit of the .338 Federal he was considering as I think of the three calibers mentioned it is the most appropriate for black bears (and depending on the rifle and bullet weight the recoil is approximate 22 ft-lbs).

People can give me a hard time for my love of bore rifles. But consider Terry Wieland's thoughts on the Lott:

.458 Lott. An oddball, I agree, but with bullets available in every configuration, in weights from 300 to 600 grains, it is a handloader�s dream cartridge when teamed with H4198. In a pinch, you can shoot factory .458 Winchester ammunition. If I wanted to hunt the world and own only one rifle, this would be it.



Read more: http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/01/04/ammunition_battery_1125/#ixzz2KiLOa6Qw

Sorry... "love of LARGE bore rifles."

Some people have NO IDEA of what an Eastern laurel/rhododendron thicket is like. As moosemike mentioned, oftentimes it requires hands and knees to get through and sometimes even then you cannot penetrate it. Old locals in the Southern Appalachains used to call them "laurel hells". Seeing 10 yards through it is, well, "optomistic".

Always amazes me how quickly game animals can run through them. That would be the one scenario where I would possibly choose a slug gun.

But this is slightly off topic to the OP. My apologies.

It was never my intent to give you a hard time on your choice of calibers. I�m certain you have fond memories of those hunts and I wouldn�t want to diminish them in any way.

I posted earlier on this thread that a small number on here come across high and heavy handed and that we should show enough respect not to piddle on each other�s parade.

............The only two words in your above post, which imo should exclude the 270 in lieu of better cartridge choices are,,,,"maybe grizzly."

Other than grizzly, your 270 is fine for the rest of the game you mention. Not that a 270 cannot kill a big bear with the right bullet and placement. But for big dangerous bears, there are better choices to use.

No magic cartridge for all you mention? Well I wouldn`t exactly agree with that.

A 7mm Rem/Wby Mag. Any of the faster 30 caliber mags like the 300 WSM, 300 Win, 300 Wby, 300 RUM and even a couple of the more powerful 338s would all do the trick for what you are looking to do. And some would even say, that the good `ol 30-06 is all that you would need.

Yep! Imo, there are a few rounds out there that can well handle all of your needs.

this has been very interesting. I see there are as many good calibers, ans there are opinions about those calibers. If I decide to buy another rifle, I am thinking about a 338. It seems to be an all around good caliber for lots of the bigger game.
Thanks for all the help guys. Now, its time to start getting ready for the hunt.
Thanks again, Jeff

Some bears are bigger than some deer. Some deer are bigger than some bears.

Whatever you hunt deer with, with a decent bullet wouldn't leave me worrying at all.

That being said I tend to gear up for longer shots and at bad angles if need be, especially on hunts that I don't do all the time...

I'm not trying to dissuade folks from using a larger bored rifle for black bear. I totally agree that, like a lot of hunting, the situation in question may call for a different rifle. Next time I head to SE AK for a black bear, I will be packing my 338-06.

My last post was simply saying that a large percentage of folks have a difficult time with the larger rifles. In my experience, around 2 to 3 out of 10 hunters are really proficient with 300 Mags.

Same in many parts of Canada, that's why a good brush cutter is required.

You realize tests have shown that a high velocity spitzer does as good, or better than a slow round nose in "brush cutting"?

Could be but I know a 300 grain bullet from a .375 will not deflect much if any, that I know from many dead creatures that were hiding behind many trees.

I shot a nice black bear on the Gaspe Peninsula in 1995 with a 270 and 150 gr Partition. Range was about 40 yards and the bear was lying in a depression facing me. Shot him at the base of the neck and the bullet went through him end to end. Never moved. The quarters and hide weighed 92 kg when I came back across the border. Live weight was about 270 lbs. I think it's enough gun..

they deflect equally?

Sounds nearly as tough as alders.

Good on you. Nice shot. Doesn't always go that way, right?

Who am I belittling? I simply stated that it would suck to hunt in that environment where things were that chaotic- that is not slam on the poster, merely an observation of the situation that he is stuck with. IF I had to hunt somewhere like that, I would be using a pretty dang big rifle to anchor them at the first shot, not trying to get cute with boutique calibers like I am prone to do now!

Think about it. I assume for MooseMike and the other Pennsylvanian hunters that posted about bear hunting it is probably one (if not THE highlight of their year).

If you don�t think that saying �The hunting you just described would really suck� isn�t judgmental or to follow up and say that it�s �merely an observation of the situation that he is stuck with� isn�t negative, you are truly clueless and lack all social skills.

Oh, the irony!

I think I'll start a thread, "Can I kill a black bear with a push feed rifle, shooting a standard cartridge?" Or, "Should I throw away my .260 and get a .458?"

That's nothing, I once heard a story about a "stunt shooter" who killed a grizz with a .260.

Wow, you must slow up the party every time you squat to piss.

Sweet Jesus, where do all you tools come from.

Let me know where the pile is, I guess I have a couple to throw in that too.

Seriously? Where's all this negativity coming from? Within reason, it doesn't matter what rifle you hunt with. You shoot the rifle and caliber you like. Why all the criticism of another man's choice? It's not like any of us is arguing for light beer or white wine. Now that would be worthy of criticism.

Is there a thread on the 'fire that hasn't turned into a pissing match after 4 pages? Add something constructive or STFU!

Are we talking gun or cartridge? Under what circumstances? Lots of variables but, I would suggest a bolt gun of some flavor that feeds and functions reliably and a cartridge that can reach the vitals from typical shooting angles. Was that so hard?

Now, men of Chablis, arise!

There has been lots of back and forth on what is or isn't enough gun for bear. Since you feel that your 270 isn't enough gun I tend to think you have reason within your personal experiance to feel that way. My suggestion to you is to use a rifle that YOU are sure is enough gun. I've told ya what I use and I'm SURE it is enough gun and not mearly adequate. It will take any black bear that you may encounter. Black bear can be BIG. Meet a 400, or 600 pond plus boar and your rifle will feel even smaller. Close up with 200 pound bear any rifle might feel smaller when face to face and lastly you need to find the bear after the shot. Choose wisely and whatever you choose make it one that you have no doubts about. Choose a rifle and cal that you are completely confident is up to the task rather than adequate to it. Lastly choose a rifle that will do the job when something goes a little wrong this way or that. We all know that perfect shot placement is key but as for myself I can say that I've not always achieved perfection im not perfect and then there is wind and of course lots of things that can cause deflection. Some say bear die easy, others disagree. Better to cover all of your bases just in case.

I had no problem with what he said. While our style of hunting is a lot of fun there are simply too many people in the woods and it does suck a lot of the time. Especially since we only get a 4 day rifle season and that's only since the last 2 years, before that it was a 3 day rifle season. I much prefer hunting out west where I can get some elbow room and see more than a hundred yards.

All I can say about PA is there is always the chance to shoot a 600-800 pound bear. Usually only half a dozen of those get shot in a given year though.

Well said Adirondack, another get problem as some addressed is the country one hunts..the heavy swamp country of Mich. or Canada would make following a blood trail very difficult, while in the more open country of the west it could be achieved more easily..When we hunted Canada for bear many years ago, the guide we were with complained about the numbers of bears missed..I got a shot at medium sized bear about an hour before dark..the shot was across a field maybe 175 yards..I used an 06 with 165 grain Serria HPBT..At the shot the bear ran across the field toward my side...I shot again, just before he hit the timber, but as I shot, I could see him falling..the first shot was good, but had he whirled and ran into the swamp from which he came, we might never have found him..he sure covered alot of ground in just a few seconds...As I grew older and hunted more, I began to realize many of those bear were hit, and ran..Tracking was tough due to the area, the shots usually came right at or just before dark..To me these are things we need to consider when selecting a rifle..and the bullets that go in it..

That's the thing. The fat on a bear clogs the holes up and he doesn't usually leave a great blood trail.

That's true. Of the 3 I've shot the one mentioned earlier was the only one that didn't run but the others were shot with an arrow. Even so the blood trail was light. For that reason I'd go with a bigger caliber for a dedicated bear rifle. The 338 Federal would be a good choice and it would handle the other species mentioned.

Where�s the irony in asking someone to be civil. Many posters on here due to job, family and financial constraints don�t have the good fortune to live and hunt where others of us have been blessed to. Our good fortune doesn�t give us the right to run them down.

Steelhead

�Wow, you must slow up the party every time you squat to piss.

Sweet Jesus, where do all you tools come from�.
_______________________________________________________________

Really, really?

I make a call for civility and the best you can do is come up with school yard taunts; that speaks volumes.

Who are you, the self appointed forum police?

No, you made sounds of a cunny.

A friend of mine in high school killed a pretty fair sized black bear with a .22 long rifle. He was grouse hunting with a .22 and came on a bear eating huckleberries in a clear cut. He rested on a stump for precsion and shot the bear at the base of his ear at 40 feet. Quote.





[/quote]
Well there ya go. A 22 shooting a bear. A .270 will do it too. When was a kid I saw my uncle shoot a 1200 lb. cow with a 22 pistol. First shot stunned it, second shot put it down. We way under estimate the killing power of our guns.

Sourdough54,

Welcome to the Campfire! It's always interesting to observe yet another Internet hard-charger who enjoys being more obnoxious than the members he accuses of being obnoxious.

The sour part is accurate. FWIW these are the posts of a skilled troll. He is the only one who insults anyone yet he accuses others of being insulting. Accusing others of what you are doing is a slick old trick effective since way before Goebbels used it for Hitler. Honest people naturally react to the false accusations and that gives him a chance to jab the knife again. We can feed him or ignore him.

Written while MD was posting his. Well said!

Sourdough, I'm a relative newbie on here so I hesitate to say too much but this thread has been pretty civil. You want to see uncivil go to the campfire forum.

I appreciate your desire to see civil discussion but to join up, make a few posts and comments then start rebuking others for the manner in which they comment just isn't going to go over very well. Some of these guys have been on here for years, discussing, arguing, sharing info, and busting each other in the chops.
It's kinda like being the new guy in a long established deer camp coming in and telling the old timers in camp that you don't approve of their card playing or bourbon drinking. (I prefer cognac myself but that's another story) As you can imagine, that wouldn't go over very well.
So I'd suggest you just chill a little bit, read a lot of threads, get to know who is who, and don't worry about what some are saying. You'll figure out who is knowledgeable and who is full of themselves. There is a wealth of useful information and I'm sure plenty you can contribute too.
Enjoy! Oh, and welcome to the campfire!

You stupid douche. The irony is you belittling some one with an accusation of belittling others.

hope that was civil enough.

There it is.

You writers sure can cut to the chase!

Gee, I don't know.

I saw irony.

ironbender,

Thanks!

That's what some writers try to do....

Damn...I think I missed a dogpile....

Geez, I just wanted some advice about the best caliber for black bears. Seems like it touched a nerve with some folks. I can't thank you all enough. Most everyone made great suggestions for their own reasons, which was exactly what I was looking for. That's the great thing about these forums.
Someone commented that I must feel insecure about the 270, but that was not it at all. I just don't have any bear hunting experience. Whitetails are the biggest game we have here in the hills of Kentucky, so I really just didn't know whether a 270 would work for blackies. After reading all of your thoughts, or at least the ones pertaining to the OP, I feel completely confident using this caliber. Now, since I am never one to waste a good reason to buy a gun, I am thinking about a 338.
Any advice about your favorite manufacturer or particular type?? Thinking about consistent accuracy and durability when I ask that. Thanks again for all the input, I can see why this site is so popular.

Dont really need a .338 unless you're hunting Alaskan kinda bears...but if you want one, Id opt for a Ruger stainless Hawkeye...then you are ready, should you head for the Great Land....

lol......

Always enjoy your cut, John!

The "Talking Heads" said it best.....

Same As It Ever Was.



If you're not a fan, skip to 1:40.

Thanks Steely, had to wipe down the keyboard after reading this one from drinking coffee and laughing

I've been following this one all along and the best part of Sourdough's "defense" is the guy he is defending had no problem with the comments made. I never hunted bear in PA but have friends that do, its pretty much as Moosemike describes as the season is short(3 days if not mistaken), no baiting allowed, and not much in the way of "open" spaces to glass. And if you think the bear hunting scenario he describes is regarding a wounded bear running to another hunter after being shot, try deer huntin there when the woods double with hunters. Definately a put them down now situation and where I was taught shoot em in the shoulder and take out their running gears

As to the OP, any excuse is a good excuse to buy another rifle. The 338-06 is a handloader only option for the most part, so keep that in mind. If comfortable with your 270 then load up some 150 or 160 Nosler PT's and go kill your black beareven though the 280 rem and 160's are a bit better

Now that it's all settled, when do the girly pix start getting posted?

I'll bet I've been around and seen more grizzly bears than you have.....

I'm thinking that'd be a fairly safe bet...

Dober

WOW, this sounds like me an bubba went down the road and shot this here bear! First of all, just like Justin Wilson would answer what kind of wine should I serve for dinner? "Serve the wine you like."
So first of all shoot the rifle you like! Shoot it well, and know the anatomy of the animal and have a plan for harvesting it. Second choose a bullet that is reccomended for hunting and has a Sectional Density of .25 or greater. Finally, try to have 1500 foot pounds of energy at the range of impact or greater! Shoot to kill! Things to ponder, If you hit the shoulder and explode the brachial plexus nerve bundle, (A junction of Cranial nerves and such) you will optimize the bullets shock effect in the energy it possess.Then if the bullet is built to penetrate it will go into the lungs and cause the lungs to fill with blood.Then you will soon have three holes for the blood to come out. That would be the shoulder and two nostrils if the animal is still alive and breathing. It will also be running away on three legs if it can run at all. Good Luck.

I am sorry I meant sectional density of .25. A 150 grain hornady interlock will have a sectional density of .279 and should have over 1500 foot pounds at 400 yds. That is in the 270 caliber.That is with a muzzel velocity of 2900 fps or so. Under 250 yds it should be fine.

I've seen more than Bitterdough in the last 6 months in Tennessee...

Yeah, that's a pretty short limb to go out on.

Do you write for Field & Stream? Something about the above seems familiar.

Thanks

Could be Outdoor Life.

I retract my earlier statement. I just finished some dry fire practice with my 375. That's what I'd use.

Just go shoot a damn bear and tell us about it!

Most of us who have posted have never hunted bears in PA. You will have to be the judge of what will work! I know I wouldn't use a 22 LR on a PA bear hunt! I might even use my Lott! Then again, I don't see myself every hunting bears in PA.

To the OP, if you ever want to come hunt bears in AZ ( season is usually months long and tags are OTC), PM me and I will hook you up!

Sorry I do not write for Outdoor life:
But the thing I am trying to say is; that is exactly why there are different weights for bullets and different amounts and types of powders to put in the brass. The 270 can shoot a huge variation in bullets and powder charges. So can most calibers of rifles. I suggest the more a person is educated in that fact, the less Gun Safes one will need to have.

JMasters, most of the fellas up here swear by the Ruger, and for good reason. But if I were to have an clean slate for a 338 build it would be thus.
Action: long action Stiller Precision, Montana if controlled feed is your preference (or any custom that floats your boat) standard bolt face.
Stock: McMillan Hunter Edge(my personal favorite), blind magazine.
Barrel: Custom, take your pick, but 22 inch is my Max.
Trigger: take your pick, but from what I understand the shilen has the fewest moving parts for Remington actions.
Caliber: 338-06AIor 35 WheelenAI,
Scope: Leupold 2-7 ultra light or fixed 4X
Rings: Tally light weight.
That would be the rout I would go if I did not already have a 358 Norma. You could do it a whole lot cheaper with out all the custom parts.

Great idea... mine would be a Defiance Machine short action, Benchmark stainless barrel at 22 inches, chambered in .338 Federal, with a McMillan stock, Zeiss Duralyt 2-8x42 scope, and Shilen stainless trigger.

My gun safe is small, so your advice souds like a winner. Thanks!

Yes sir, what would a rifle built to these specs cost me??

Price? That's a good point. You could get a Tikka T3 in .338 Federal for a quarter the price. The bear would never know the difference. But it's fun to dream....

This is my Black Bear rifle,for a hunt in Arizona in November.

CZ 550 American 7x57 with a 4x Zeiss.

Dang, you mean that's why I never get invited back??

That will work!

Custom action: $950+
Barrel: $320+
Stock: $550+
Trigger: $120+
Smith: $225+
Or
Action: $450 Remington
Barrel: send it to Heart $700, heart did my 358 and they do really good work.
Stock: $100 Boyts

Thanks Dennisinaz,going to work on handloads for it now.

I killed a couple of bulls and bears with my 7-08 and loaned it to a couple of hunters in camp that came less than prepared. Favorite bullet for elk is the 154 Hornady.

I'm going to use a 140 Nosler Partition in mine,may try some thing else because this rifle has a LOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGGGG throat. Seating the 140's at 3.1955 and still have room in the magazine and throat.

See there. Now you've learned something. Next time take a bottle of bourbon, even if you're **Baptist, some poker chips and keep your mouth shut!


**You know the difference between a Baptist and a Presbyterian?...A Presbyterian will say "hello" in the liquor store!

Amen to that!!

I hunt black bear every year here in Ontario Canada. They come in all sizes and under a variety of conditions. Most of it is over my own baits. The terrain is rugged, rough, thick bush, ravines, lakes, streams, rivers, bogs, etc.

If a bear that is shot, for whatever reason, gets away from the immediate scene on the edge of dark (that's when they choose to show up -- at least the mature ones), I want? NO! NEED a GOOD blood trail! I've used (or used to use)rifles from 7mm to .458". After a couple of follow-ups that lead into darkness blacker than tar, and brush thicker than dogs hair, I decided long ago that nothing beats a big-bore bullet for dropping a bear at the bait, or within a few yards at most AND there WILL BE enough blood that a blind person could follow.

About an exit hole: I've seen that too, where there wasn't ANY leakage! And, I witnessed where my .45-70 punched a 3" hole going in that saturated the bears right side from shoulder to rump. An exit? T'wasn't needed!

A 270? Yes, it certainly will kill a bear... but what size and at what range? I've witnessed two bl. bears (a 200 lb and a 400 lb)both shot by my close friend using federal 150gr NP's from his custom 270. The range on the 200lb was 35 yards. It was a heart shot... and on the edge of dark. The bear went 35 yards into a thick bush and died. When we found it, it was pitch dark with not a drop of blood anywhere to be followed. The other bear was also hit at 65 yards from the same rifle and load, through the top of the lungs near the shoulders. It was, like the first, a pass-through. I found the bear in the thickest tangle of bush at 40 yards from where it was initially hit. I found it because it bawled 11 X. And it was pitch blackness when I found it. There wasn't a drop of blood on the outside of the animal nor on the ground!

I like Big Bores for bear. There's a difference between killing and finding! From experience: a bl. bear in this country is BLACK! And if it travels a mere 20 yards after it's hit it can be lost... unless you have tracking dogs!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Well, My confidence in using the 270 is beginning to wane a little, the more I read about lost bears. so, Back to square one. Now I am thinking about a 300 mag, or a 338. Unless you all have better suggestions. Also, what optics should I be looking at to top it off with. Price is certainly a consideration, but not the only one. I guess I want the most bang for the buck, so to speak. Please tell me why I should use the caliber that you recommend, and which manufacturer you would buy if you were indeed buying(or have already bought). Thanks guys, all the information is really appreciated, and also very entertaining. Jeff

Two bears traveling 35 and 65 yards after being hit through the boiler room with a .270 is hardly a "lost" bear.

Your .270 will kill any black bear quickly and cleanly with good marksmanship. A large caliber magnum rifle will wound any black at any range with poor marksmanship.

Dober can post up more than a few pictures of large, mature black bear boars the he's killed cleanly with rifles a lot smaller that a .270. And they weren't all out in the open on bare hillsides. Most weren't far from heavy cover, if not in heavy cover. He wasn't using these rifles to try to prove something, he was hunting with them because he has confidence in them.....

Didn't Dobie use a .22-250 on some...or know guys who did?

OP-just use your .270 and quit reading this ridiculous thread...

What Scenar said...take it to the bank and go kill a bear, moose, sheep, grizz, and anything else your heart fancies.

If you are looking for comedy, go to the library or the blockbuster store. If you are being genuine and haven't got it after 160 some posts, comedy might be a good angle for you...

Just saying

I will make a few suggestions and you can pick one or choose another one entirely. 358 win., 35 whelen, 405 win, 45-70,. 450marlin, or the rifle I use 444 marlin. I choose these because they hit hard penetrit deep and make a nice big entrance hole. My preferance would be any of the big bores, 40 cals, with flat nosed bullets. Any rifle you might feel comfortable with in these cals. Lever guns, bolts or whatever you like. Personally I use a tc encore in 444 with a leupold vx 3 1.5 x 5 scope. But I also have a few marlin lever guns in 444 with that same scope. Any of them do the job I require of them.

Tens of thousands of black bears are killed every year from tree stands off of bait at close range with archery equipment and recovered. I would bet that at least 90% of those require a tracking job of some sort.

My advice is, don't "over engineer" it. Shoot the snot out your .270 before you go, get deadly with it, and go kill a bear.

FWIW, one of the largest black bears I've ever killed was with my 6XC on the job a couple summers ago. One shot behind the shoulder with a 115gr VLD at 200 yards, and he was dead within a few seconds. There isn't a centerfire rifle out there that would have killed that bear any quicker, or any deader than that one did.

Yepper, take out the pumper plumbing and things go to Croak City Wyo pretty darn quick. Scenar and I and friends of ours from the Bozezone have filled several arks of game with 22/250's and Swifts.

I'd bet that Scenars old Sako has easily taken more game than most any other rifle in use these days. That rifle has panache.

Dober

Killing quickly and efficiently is only rocket science to those who choose to make it so

Dober

Lets see that big bear you killed with a 63gr Sierra....20"+ if I recall.

Random thoughts That's because the whole process is wrapped up in hyperbole,garnished with mysterious formula's, and vague and obscure references to "knock down" quotients,foot pounds,SD,BC,the endless and fruitless pursuit of "DRT's"(good grief where did THAT come from?)and other attempts at numerical quantifications of killing effectivness.....People with little experience at it get confused easily and draw distinctions (in their minds)between various animals of roughly the same weight,forgetting that most of the stuff we hunt is put together pretty much the same way;and die in a similar fashion.

Bow hunters seem not to be affected by any of this....slicing large holes through vitals seems enough for them.

Complicating things for us, is the "advise" of various experts,some of whom like to expound that nothing under a 338-250 gr bullet is "fully adequate" for elk(this shidt hangs around for generations!);and a 300 WSM is required for northern deer.And for some reason, the mention of "black bears" causes some to strap a 44 mag to their hip as "back up",and they go forth prepared for the inevitable show down against animals weighing less than some of us.Must be the teeth.....It can be pretty dangerous out there!

I ain't immune myself, and have worried over a lot of it,at times grabbing way more than was necessary for the task,and nothing really was hurt by it all so long as I remembered to (a)use a good bullet and (b)stick it the right place,and following that little bit of advise have not run into many problems.

With what little experience I have,I've noticed that the problems crop up when you miss the vitals or fail to get into them,and if you fail in either regard,problems happen as often with a 340 as it does with a 257 Roberts....turns out those two cartridges turned in the longest tracking jobs my little group of friends and I had to contend with out of a lot of black bears.Those two little "rules" are at the heart of the matter regardless of what you shoot,IME.

Not to say all cartridges are precisely the same,of course...I have favorites like anyone but overall it has not mattered much what I have used,and can't recall returning from a hunt empty because I didn't have "enough" gun.JMHO.

Or, placement matters more than headstamps..............grin

That,too.

I'm using my hornet this coming season then. I didn't know you could kill them with the little stuff...

I really appreciate all of the advice! While I would really love to get a new gun, the one central theme running through this post is good bullets and good shot placement. I think I may invest in a really good scope(any help would be appreciated)and a synthetic stock for the gun I have. Along with a few hundred rounds, to reaffirm that I am competent with it at the yardages I will be shooting, and in all shooting positions. I have also had a lot of bullet recommendations, (any help here would be appreciated), I am thinking the swift, or barnes, though there has been a bear claw mentioned. any advice on these? I am not familiar with the bear claw. Thanks again for your willingness to help someone new. I appreciate your time! Jeff Masters

The .270 has such a reputation among AZ bears that many of them keel over from fright at the sight or sound of the caliber, taking most of the sport out of it. By all means avoid it.

Bigger rifles are more difficult to shoot, period. And being on a much-anticipated bear hunt compounds this effect. Check out Scenarshooter's long range .260 grizzly.

On the other hand, it is a fantastic reason for a new rifle; one that saves the lives of many trophy animals later collected by .270 shooters ...

Having fun with you here. I would shoot the heck out of my BC bear with said .270, and save the cash for one of the many other purchases such a trip warrants, such as a ticket for a travel buddy/gun bearer ... ahem.

Dennis will probably use his .340 Wby just for spite.

You make a lot of sense here.

I hear you amico mio! Mt brother andI are so excited about this trip, that we are contemplating selling a small piece of ground that we have to finance another hunt. thanks again for the advice! Jeff Masters

Not to anybody in particular but It's always amazing to me that guys can get all bristle-haired over what rifle or cartridge to use for what. The law usually gives a lot of latitude about such things so..there are really a lot of right answers, and wrong ones.

Depending.

That is precisely true. But also don't ignore the ones who, for reasons other than hunting black bear, have become proficient with rifles shooting something more powerful than necessary to take out a typical, or even large, black bear. I learned to become really good with my .340 nd .375 Wbys when preparing for hunting brown bear. And I know that those both are even more than you need for that. But the .375 worked like a charm. I lke the novelty of those rifles, even when I don't need those specific cartridges.

So, now, I just happen to shoot better with my 10lb-11lb (depending on whether I have a bipod on it) .340 accumark than anything else I own, including even the .243 Wby Youth I just bought my 9-yr-old son (which is really accurate, but the .340 shoots groups at 100 yds that touch every time unless I let the barrel get ridiculously hot or I get tired).

So, I carried it last year around the national forest on an impromptu black bear hunt on public land. I didn't even think I was going to get to go hunting, but at the last minute, a work project ended a bit early, so I essentially went on a solo winter hiking/backpacking trip with a big rifle with a hope/prayer that I might see a bear. I dind't but, i had a blast. When thinking of what rifle to bring, I didn't think long, because my .340 is my favorite to shoot (I find it fun), and it's at least up to the job at any range I would be willing to shoot.

I do have smaller rifles for carrying on longer hunts, but this was not bad enough to need them.

If a .270 was my favorite or heaviest hitter, I certainly would not get anything else for black bear. But, somewhat in line with the one-gun philosophy I carry what I shoot best even when it's over-powered. My only point is that not everyone is crazy if they don't bring the minumum necessary rifle, or a standard deer rifle, on a black bear hunt even if the rifle shots something heavier and faster than necessary.

One other big difference for the context of hunters/hunting that seems to rarely come up on here is that some hunters (i) get to hunt many times per year, every year; while others (ii) do not get to hunt a lot even though they want to do so; or at least (iii) rarely get to hunt the really cool big stuff. I'm in the latter category. So, if I'm proficient with a long-range hard-hitting rifle, and I get to hunt elk or big bear or somtehing, I'm going to err a bit on the overkill, even if it's not necessary, just to make sure that I don't miss a rare chance when, for example, a large bull shows up at dusk on the last day of an arduous hunt 400 yds away and I think I can make the shot.

If I lived in the right place (like I hope to someday) and get to hunt until my eyes pop out every year with bows muzzleloaders, and rifle, I probably would be more conservative in what I carry. One nsize does nto fit all.