Guy at work loaned me his copy. Painful read actually. Backward looking is what he called it. I suppose a blow by blow re-hash of this and that appeals to women.

I was hoping for a thoughtful defense of limited government, Jeffersonian federalism, maybe even some Christian theology to justify her choices in life.

I am terribly disappointed quite frankly.

Dammit. Why do our conservative leaders have to be so dam shallow, so lacking in reflection, so divorced from the broad streams of thought in which our founders were swimming?

They deem us stupid. Or they are stupid. I am fed up.

Have you picked up a Glen Beck book lately with all the sarcastic little comic book drawings? I am not three years old. I can handle some rigorous thought, debate, reasoning. It is insulting.

Love Mrs Palin. Grace to her. A pox upon her mockers; but I am disappointed beyond words. Sorry.

Two thoughts on Palin:
1. More disappointing as time plays out

2. Still far more qualified to be in the White House than the dirtbag we put there!

My thoughts exactly.

Don't get me wrong- I am rooting for her in the game of life and wish her well in all things.

But next go round we need someone who leans more towards Oliver Cromwell to take out a battle ax and tear up all the crap Obama is forcing on us. I don't think that is Mrs Palin.

My preference is for a two-fisted man among men with blood in his eye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO2_49TycdE

"I am paying for this microphone..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NowLZlfx5qw&feature=related

...Aww shut up!


This is how Ronald Reagan won the 1980 election.

I feel the same way. I was looking forward to finding out where she fundamentally stands on the issues, along with an intellectual defense of why.

No doubt, but the local dog catcher is too.

A Pat Buchanan.

I feel the same way. I was looking forward to finding out where she fundamentally stands on the issues, along with an intellectual defense of why. [/quote]

Is it asking too much???

I haven't read Palin's book yet, but watching her on TV has been very disappointing. She is still not ready for prime time. Still does not seem to be comfortable to say what needs to be said and leave it at that. She meanders in answering a question, either from trying to be coy and sound intelligent in her answer, or because she cannot effectively communicate. I hate this as I loved the person I thought she was politically, but am coming to the realization that she is just a nice lady, with some good accomplishments, who got in way over her pretty head in national politics.

Pat's book's are well researched, thought provoking and in my opinion persuasive. He draws the most interesting examples from history and his own experience to illustrate his points. And he is a fighter. Love the guy. But Reagan did it all with panache' and grace and grandeur. There was a depth to that guy. His very real struggles with the communists, his face off with the violence of the hippies and black panthers and so forth. He was a good man. Way underestimated by the rank and file.

Yep. We need to find a deeply principles conservative, or we're wasting this perfect opportunity.

I think this country is getting primed for a very real fist fight and this saintly lass is not the medicine we need. God bless her...

It takes a crooked stick to beat a mad dog.

lets see Dixie, you read Biden's book? You read hussein's books?

no? oh, I see, its ok to critique Palin, but you give a pass to the dhimmicrats? Typical..

We don't need to read a Marxist's book to know we don't want them in power. Since that's a given, no need to mention it.

And a continuous swinging until it's over. Relentless, undying and never pulling a punch. Hit 'em where it hurts the most and don't stop until there's no fight left in them. They started the fight, time to rise up and finish it!

+1

Hey you guy's, don't fall into the trap of expecting that some glib intellectual is going to be the right leader for this country.........regardless of party.

Personally, I think Sara Palin's appeal is exactly what you guy's seem to dislike about her.

The elitists have had plenty of opportunities to do the right thing for America............why don't we give the "man lady on the street" a crack at it for once.

Huh???

Agreed......but the dogcatcher wasn't running for office!

You know me better than that Mr. Mannlicher. I appreciate anyone who defends Palin because I detest her detractors so intensely, so I am not going to fist-fight anyone who takes up for her. I love the woman. I am just being blunt. And I am not typical... that is for certain.

Good sir...

But it is not elitist to be pickled in Jeffersonian thought! It is not elitist to give a quote from Burke or Madison or Patrick Henry. Every American should be fairly conversant in/with the Federalist Papers and States Rights and the ideology of ordered liberty. That is not elitist.

The fact is; the right wing pundits have dumbed us down.

Something to consider:
It's the whizz bang, highly educated, very bright folks who got the county into this mess.
Palin stands head and shoulders above the current crop politicians at all levels of government, as far as being honest person. What this country needs is someone with innate leadership skills. We are so used to voting for the lessor of two gross evils we are not able to recognise a good person.
When you have spent your life neck deep in sh*t, roses smell funny.

Jim

+1

Seriously, the glib intellectuals are the Marxists coming out of Harvard. I hear what you are driving at but for Pete's sake, we have some substantial ammunition on OUR side that is persuasive to the man in the street. Firstly the Declaration of Independence for starts.

We can win this fight I am thinking, but we have to do better.

I don't dislike anything about her as a person. Neither am I looking for intellectualism, in fact just the opposite. We have been overrun with so-called intellectuals whose seemingly lofty ideas and ideals are just so much bovine defecation wrapped in the pretty paper of bombast.

A president or any leader has to be an effective communicator. Palin still has a lot to learn about that. I think she may be gunshy after her ordeals with the moron liberals of the once mainstream media, but was hoping she had done a study on her flaws in that area and was ready to take on the obvious excesses of the Obamanation and the putrid stench of DC. If she is, she does not inspire or even convince me in that regard.

A post like this is nothing I ever hoped to make.

BS. It was leftists that got us into this mess. Leftists like Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, for example. We need a Ronald Reagan, a deeply principles Americanist conservative, to pull us out of this mess. He was no wizz bang ivory tower intellectual, but he was saturated to his core with the Founding Fathers and our founding documents, the products of authentic intellect.

I'd prefer a Theodore Roosevelt!

my point was, and is, that I did NOT see any review posted by you, of books written by the opposition. You dismiss out of hand Palin, because you don't like her book.

Ok, but there is no scenario I can think of where her views or abilities would not be head and shoulders above what inhabits the White House at this time.

Most libertarians will never have an electable candidate they can embrace. No one is ever pure enough for them.

It doesn't take an intellectual mind to know when somethings are just the wrong thing to do, nor to recognize when things are FUBAR.

We all seem to appreciate common sense and no bullshitt but oft times when folks get it from less than 'educated' (didn't say intelligent) individuals people a quick to point it out. Lots of things ain't rocket science and the key to any good leader is assembling the RIGHT people around you.

A leader doesn't need to be the most educated/intellectual person in the room they need to look at big picture stuff and be able cut through the bullshitt.

Lots of folks voting for a 'leader' that haven't the first [bleep] clue what a leader is. Therein lies the rub.

I agree.

The last thing we need is another progressive at this point. If you liked Teddy, you'll love Hillary Clinton. No thinks.

I don't feel that the pundits have dumbed us down. I think that they have dumbed down their shows to reach more and more market share. Sean Hannity is the perfect example of that. The man runs a dating service on his website and expects to be treated as an intellectual conservative. The younger generations don't have a sense of history and they are not being taught much of it in school nowadays.

I agree completely. The big picture is the constitution and the Declaration. A home school kid can get the argument down, it don't take college. George Washington had no college. But read some of his writings. He had thought through the big picture. He had gravitas.

Actually T.R. was one of the first Progressives. Which we can do without, thank you very much.

Jim

No, not at all. I have defended her at every turn. She is the ONLY reason I voted for the McCain ticket. I love Palin. I take her seriously, but this has been incubating in my mind for a while.

Her communist opposition is so low life, so foul, so wicked, so completely devoid of any hint of goodness that I have simply come to the conclusion we need a fighter of a rougher hue.

Absolutely, with few exceptions that's very true. Pretty much only the honors level classes are even open to learning anything of substance anymore. Most kids are conditioned by the MSM to believe it's all BS, so have a mental block when it comes to anything of substance.

I don't follow your line of reasoning. It might have some validity if idiots like Biden or Obamanation were being praised. They most certainly are not. I don't need to read their books, though I have read some of Obama's to the saturation of a healthy stomach, to know they are lying, wrongheaded, liberals of the manner I personally hate to have anywhere around a leadership position of any manner.

Exactly.

Reagan was OK but way overstated. He overspent, was involved in as much of your so-called empire building as any president, and paved the way for the growth of fundamental islam jihad by not avenging the death of our Marines in Lebanon. He was personable, likable by all, and a breath of fresh air after his predecessors, but far from an ideal conservative leader.

I think she has the right instincts; that is, though she is not an intellectual I believe that in the presidency she would act on conservative principles because that is what and who she is even though she may not be able to mount a coherent, intellectual apologetic for it. She has shown that in her AK record as far as I know.

I inherently will trust a true conservative over an intellectual whose stripes change as the grass does. Intellectualism has garnered a taint with the common folk I believe because it often is associated with an elitism and a paternalistic attitude. That is certainly not true of Mrs. Palin.

I am open to changing my mind and hope she will.

Studying Lincoln and his arguments for preserving the union, it dawned on me after a while, that Lincoln simply didn't comprehend the plain issues. He didn't understand Madison, much less Jefferson. It is embarrassing really. And look at the destruction he wrought, and the injustice we still suffer because of him.

The ABC's of American liberty are not hard. Palin could have hit a home run. Now I am not sure she has a full grasp. Really. Sorry.


John Locke's 2nd Treatise is extremely short.
The Virginia and Kentucky resolves... very very short.
The Federalist Papers... a book, but not overwhelming, not at all.
A careful, thoughtful, well researched commentary on the Declaration of Independence I have at my bedstand is about 100 pages. Not long.

The big picture is not hard to digest and defend.

Here's my meager take on Ms. Palin.. She's not in public office now. She put out a book that basically (from what I've heard - haven't read it and fully admit it) points out where she came from - not where she's going.. I think she's smart enough to just, for now, be visible and begin to create a following. She also knows, IMHO, that she's not electable in 2012 - so she's going to do this slowly, patiently and then for the 2016 run, giverhell...

By that time, I don't doubt that she'll be front and center with her views and directions for this country..

IF, that is, she decides it's worth a shot to run. but I'm betting it will not be in 2012..

Just my .02

I don't have to be told things will be done in the exact manner I would do them or think they should be done. Just they will work at getting the same things done whatever it takes.

Imagine, someone who isn't the most polished speaker but proven to roll up their sleeves and take each problem on as they come with common sense.

Mrs Palin is the exact opposite of the politicians we have in both parties and a proven worker for the people. Her domestic policies on capitalism and energy are right on. Her foreign policy of polite but tough is Reaganish and she quotes Reagan, I don't need her to quote anyone else.

Doubt I'll read her book on how the campaign went, I already know the ending and it was crappy and not her fault.

Where's someone even close to her qualities that has any chance of being elected, Pat or Ron aren't no matter if their ideas are right.

Kent

"Her communist opposition is so low life, so foul, so wicked, so completely devoid of any hint of goodness that I have simply come to the conclusion we need a fighter of a rougher hue."


She does seem to be out of her league at times but remember how she acted fresh out of the chute in AK. She kicked a lot of ass and took a lot of names, strait to the cleaner... She didn't pull any punches. Not all she did was so great in everyone's eyes, but she showed more balls in her few months as Governor than most politicians show in their decades-long careers. She stood her ground. She kept pushing foreward. She kept her principles up front and had no qualms aobut rubbing people's noses in it.

She's a fighter. The hue may not be the roughest, but she's far and away the best thing going when it comes to taking a stand for what she believes is right.

I'm still 100% behind her.

I've had enough affirmative action for a while.

From now on, give me an old white man for president.

- Tom

Palin is a creation of those trying to appeal to anti-intellectualism. She may not even know it. She isn't the answer and isn't even close.

I'm afraid you're right. The fact that some here equate true intellect, like that of our Founding Fathers, with ivory tower leftist intellectualism is, to say the least, very troubling. As if the only alternative to ivory tower intellectualism is anti-intellectualism. Very troubling, indeed. I fear for my nation.

That is what I expect from her now. There are a lot of names to name and circumstances to circumspect. We have no time to waste. I hope she starts soon.

Steelhead said:
It doesn't take an intellectual mind to know when somethings are just the wrong thing to do, nor to recognize when things are FUBAR.

We all seem to appreciate common sense and no bullshitt but oft times when folks get it from less than 'educated' (didn't say intelligent) individuals people a quick to point it out. Lots of things ain't rocket science and the key to any good leader is assembling the RIGHT people around you.

A leader doesn't need to be the most educated/intellectual person in the room they need to look at big picture stuff and be able cut through the bullshitt.

Lots of folks voting for a 'leader' that haven't the first [bleep] clue what a leader is. Therein lies the rub.


Steelhead for Pres' 2012

kwg

I'm pretty sure Palin had no intention of the book being intellectual.. If Palin had done that, then people would be screaming that the book was boring, and that she was some crazy religious right winger trying to promote her agenda..

I'm not sure this type of intellectualism is recognized here on the camp fire, or for that matter any where on the net, most folks hate individual thought, and abohar any original thinking.

Who would want to be well read, thus proving how you arrived at your thinking? Yes, just to well reasoned and argument. Do you really feel you need to go any further Bastiat's 0observations on America? I have never known a politician to get that far into a political education.

The more I think about this, the more ridiculous it is.. Some dude doesn't even have the coin to buy his own copy of the book, yet gets on the internet with a superior attitude about the book. I bet Dixie would piss his pants if he ever met Palin.

WTF is "appeals to women"? Nice sexist jab. You could say that about 90% of what is posted on the "Hunters Campfire" too..

Lotta good insite right there.

"WTF is "appeals to women"? Nice sexist jab. You could say that about 90% of what is posted on the "Hunters Campfire" too.."


Does that include pictures of boobies?

Say, that reminds me. This is a Sarah Palin thread with no pictures. What gives? Do I have to request the park bench puker to get some of you's guys back on the ball?

I'm not able to locate a link. Could you please clarify? Is Bastat a correct spelling?

Thanks.

Paul

i dont know how to bring quote forward....??
REdneck ,Krp you both have made good comments.
YOU DONT BUILD A HOUSE FROM THE ROOF DOWN//YOU BUILD FROM BOTTOM UP START ON SOLID GROUND BUILD STRONG FOUNDATION
THEN THE HOUSE THEN THE FURNISHINGS//
SARA PALIN GOT DRAWEN INTO SOMEBODY ELESES HOUSE WITH THEIR HOUSE RULES.remember her dad said she is not retreating she isRRREEELOOOOADINGGGG...
SHE IS NOW BUILDING HER OWN HOUSE BACKGROUND,FOUNDATION..
TALK SHOWES, SEMINARS [ANOTHER BOOK]? THATS PLANNING ,REASERCH,THATS THE GROUND FLOOR..you get my point2012 is 36 months away 18 months untill real campaining starts IF SHES GOING TO RUN SHE HAS TO BUILD AND BUILD WELL ...TO TAKE OVER FROM WHERE ObamA LEFT OFF WILL TAKE A VERY DERTIMENED INDIVIDUAL WITH VERY VERY GOOD PEOPLE BEHIND HER oberservations from the north country..NORM.

Bastiat.

Everything he ever wrote is worth reading. No, studying.

The last thing conservatives need is an older white male to run. McCain was seen as a grumpy old man and could only talk about lowering taxes and �the surge�. Conservatives need a good looking, intelligent, younger male that is as good as O�Bama on the speaker�s podium. He has to appeal to women and younger voters. We live in the age of television and now especially the internet. I believe that president O�Bama is well liked as a person. I like him, but I STRONGLY disagree with the direction he is leading the country and his liberal view. He is probably one of the best public speakers to come down the pike in a long time�and he was �cool�. In reality, he has less experience in actually running the government than Palin..yet, he was elected. The women loved Bill Clinton, and Reagan was like the good �father� image. I think Palin is a breath of fresh air, but because she is almost too attractive, women voters may resent her..she may be a lot tougher than one might think�How many would stand up to big oil? I guess it really doesn�t matter who gets elected at this point, as we have just experienced �Capitalism Gone Wild�, and nothing has changed..the big banks own everything, dictate monetary policy, and will continue to control the government and those that we elect to represent us

DixieFreesdomz,

Please expand upon your comments above.

Thank you.

Don

God save us from moderates.

Conservatives should have learned with Dan Quale. Sarah or Cheney are unelectable. If those folks don't start looking for somebody that is educated and not hooked up with the big oil/banking, and not just a pretty face, it will be four more years of Obama. Just my opinion.

I feel that McCain was electable with a running mate that the older conservatives trusted to take over if something happened to him. He lost their vote with Palin.

Wow, after reading all of this I am feeling much, much better now as it echos my thoughts exactly.

First, no real conservative would run for president and especially one who is a real intellectual because it would be a waste of their time and energy.

Second, anybody who runs for president has to be able to govern from the middle and most important of all appeal to the the TV talk show/reality/sitcom crowd. In other words, to the stupid and ignorant.

And last, I learned this 40+ years ago, in any great debate emotion beats logic every time. If the Republicans want the White House in 2012 they need somebody who can emotionally can connect with the brain dead masses. Someone who can come up with a short one line campaign slogan that connects with those brain dead masses.

If Palin wins in 2012 it's because she has picked a super campaign manager and great speech writers. She certainly has a appeal to the brain dead masses, is a moderate at best, and has a little intellect. Yes, she maybe perfect presidential material.

I have to agree.

Reagan did a great job of creating an emotional connection while utilizing conservative intellectuals like Buckley and Rusher for the heavy brain lifting and as a response to the liberal elite.

Unfortunately, thinkers like Buckley and Rusher would probably not be welcome in today's party. The Republican party is rapidly becoming the party of the shouted slogan and philosophical purity above all else, without having much in the way of ideals behind the slogans. This is leaving the thinking conservative in a hard spot.

Cole, we are going to have to stop doing this, we are agreeing way too much.

You may have a point. The only true conservative who has ever held the presidency that I can see is Calvin Coolidge. All presidents with the exception mention have been moderates starting with Washington.

I've had the honor and privilege of working alongside a large number of brilliant people in my life. Some few were intellectuals... but most of them were pretty good folks.

Being able to quote chapter and verse from the Bible hardly makes one a good Christian.

Exactly, the Constitution has been written; now just adhere to it.

Plus one, well said.

Palin's main draw is her social conservatism- which horns a certain faction up, but isn't going to win a national election. As it shouldn't.

A culture-war female social conservative that comes across as a ditz isn't the answer. Y'all can WISH shed written an intellectual tome, but what in the world made you think she'd do that?! Prior performance being a predictor of future potential and all that. A ditzy book is entirely in character for Palin.

Forget her. She's a historical blip. Convince George Will to run; field an actual, real, candidate with some substance behind them, an intellectual an philosophical track record- someone less concerned with what people do with their peckers, and more concerned with REAL issues!

You guys love to hate me, but at least I'm standing here giving it to you straight. The crucial "middle" stands ready for a real conservative. Palin ain't it; in fact for many of us, she was the nail in McCain's electoral coffin.

Flame on... Nomex suit is donned... grin...

You are as irrelevant as the twit you voted for

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

Not if you wan to win, I'm not.

Millions just like me who want the conservative "cake", without the Puritanical "icing". You say you all want the cake too. Palin is all icing.

Wake up, smell the reality.

Disagree.

Palin is true conservative from her heart.

But unable to articulate it from her head.

I prefer the Heart to Head.

With Reagan and Teddy R we got both.

BMT

+1 SH.

If what were looking for is a modern intellectually rigorous treatise on conservative thinking that appeals to the public I would recommend Mark Levin's Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto. IMO Levin represents the type of right people the president needs to surround himself (I use this term in its classic application in our language applying to both genders) with, both in shaping his thinking as a candidate and as advisers in governing.

However, for all the nostalgia for the Founding Fathers' intellectual prowess, it was those who appealed to the electorate for other reasons than their intellect, who were most successful as politicians, eg. George Washington. The intellectual architects of the Revolution of '76 were largely ineffectual, or at best, controversial political figures when they governed - e.g., John Adams, Thomas Jefferson.

Reagan may not have been a "perfect conservative" but he was a consistently predictable leader and an ideological conservative.

I'm afraid that in our quest for ideological purity in conservative thought in politicians, we may find ourselves ruled by pragmatic socialists who can create majority coalitions. Just my .02.

Palin may not be perfect or even the right candidate, but IMHO we conservatives need to start thinking which are the critical few requirements we identify in the candidates we'll suppoprt who are actually electable.

I'll give you the "unable to articulate" part!

The only way to really know what's in someone's heart involves a sharp knife...

In what ways has Palin been "puritanical". Are you basing that on the fact that she is a professing christian?

Jeff O, you proved you are who you are, with your vote for Obama. You just can't come back from that.

Link The correct spelling is Bastiat, clink on the link for more information about his life and works.

As and aside the common book on the philosophy of the founding fathers at the Constitutional convention was the works of John Locke. This is were the explanation of the Constitution comes from, so it's not as if the Supreme Court has no guidelines for and understanding of the intent by the founders.

John Locke

Haven't read any of the comments. I am starting the book this evening and will comment later in the week. Right now, there is no one in the Rep. Party other than Rudy G. that holds my attention as much as Palin. Someone else may come to the forefront before 2012.

Amen to that! If you voted for Obama, stay out of this discussion, for you clearly have no logic, nor understanding of people. For anyone to have voted for Obama, and then to profess he has an accurate view of Palin, well, tell me more on why your sorry Azzzzz voted for Obama?

Well Stated, Calvin.

I can understand why he voted for Obama, it was pay back to America for pass perceived misdeeds.

And look at the liberal POS they ran against him? I thought the best way to pay the GOP back for picking someone that the liberals all said they loved was to vote and support Ron Paul.

Sarah never said her book was a conservative manifesto. I expect more later. In the meantime we have Levine's book for that.

You expected more, from trailer-trash like her? Madonna vice Thatcher?

The problem is not her falling short of realistic promise.

The problem is the rampant stupidity of the back-fence savants who saw her as a serious solution to their inability to frame, popularize, and enact a conservative program for this country.

Shysters, like McCain, always go for the glitz and glamor, and screw the ideas that count.

And if I am wrong, winning with her is still losing!

1B

You are small minded. And way too close to the beltway to know anything about the rest of America. IMHO

And your opinions are based on what? Your own intelligence?

Palin is a quitter. She'll never be able to get past that.

If she hadn't stepped down, you liberals would be screaming right now that she was running for Prez while still the gov of Alaska, etc..

Funny how Palin brings all the liberal trolls out of the woodwork..

Intellectualism in itself isn't all that bad.................. it's just that being an intellectual and having a pair of balls is an oxymoron these days don'tcha think??

Calvin, I'm a Republican farmer from Colorado.

Say some time in the future Palin gets elected to the Presidency...and then the media and the liberal lay down a gauntlet. What makes you think She'll stick it out instead of making the Vice President the President?

We can yell and scream, name call, all we want but to win the next election we are going to have to come up with someone better than MCain/Palin and I'm prety sure Palin isn't it.

If Palin runs for pres., she's a moderate.

If Palin doesn't run for pres., than she maybe a conservative.

how does it compare to Teddy's book?

I think there's a lot to like about Palin, but I just don't accept her as what I want my presidential candidate to be. I'm sure she shares a lot of my values, but she's not a heavyweight. She's not the lightweight the media spinmasters made her out to be, but I'd like to see a candidate with more. McCain? ... what needs to be said about this politician? We need another leader with traditional American values to step forward. Hopefully, it's someone who can forcefully articulate a vision and his principles. Someone with the ability to fillet the libtards in a debate and make their failed policies obvious for what they are. GW lacked in that regard and McCain would just put you to sleep.

I don't know what great expectations there should have been for this book. It was pretty clear it was just going to be her side of the campaign story. Hopefully it earns her some money to pay off the frivolous lawsuits generated by the libtards.

Payback is dumb logic for an excuse to trash our constitution, and country via Obama and his Marxist, black panther, liberal, socialist jackasses.

Anyone with any common sense knows damn well we don't force legislation thru as is happening now, when in fact, in FACT, the majority of Americans are apposed to it. It is bullshit plain and simple, and if you voted for Obama just for payback, what a dumb sob you are.

If she wanted to be taken seriously, she should have stayed in office and walked the talk.

If she wanted to be taken seriously, she would have written a book that defined her policy, rigid-like.

The dems are praying that is all the gop has to offer. Time to dig deeper.

But, whatever.

If she'd had stayed in office, she'd be bankrupt.
In the meantime she'll soon be worth millions. Couldn't happen to a nicer gal.

Right now she is seriously chasing the American dream of making a boat load of money.
Smart too, strike while the iron is hot.

The future is wide open.

She's a Hot Mess. Too bad.

~ A painted face scarecrow, flapping in the wind ...

What we conservatives fail to "get" is that it isn't about being a Republican or a Democrat. It's not even about some intellectual treatise on the way things should be. The liberals own the Democrat party, which is a shame, because my parents and almost all my family and friends were once Democrats-CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS. The liberals infest all aspect of our lives. It is their plan. They own the Dim party and pretty much own the Moderates. There are plenty of them in our own Republican Party. What is needed are people willing to infest their own territory. From the grass roots, run for State Representative as a Democrat and then just be conservative as hell. There will be some who say it won't work, but it has sure worked for the liberals. They have us constantly fighting our assses off for some assclown like McCain who may be tons better than the Magic Muslim, but still sucks big-time as far as our values go.

The Democrats are the pro-choice party, in much the same way that Republicans are the pro-gun party.

Those are THE polarizing issues that create single-issue voters. Those issues right there create the bedrock of the political edifice- assigning a big, solid chunk of electoral concrete to either side.

Sounds familiar and spot on.

Books are not for reading in the political game, they are for having something to talk about on TV - hell boy everybody knows that.

Their other function is to be a source on campaign funds that isn't regulated by McCain-Fiengold.

Have you ever ran for office in any capacity - give it a try and then criticize her efforts, cause its a way tougher game than cage fighting.

The States created the union and the federal government. The federal government was to be chained down by lawful restrictions as a dutiful servant for the benefit of the sovereign states, most importantly national defense and secondly to provide a lawful way for states to settle squabbles without resorting to regional mini-wars.

Lincoln at the end of the day viewed the national government as some sort of divine idol to be worshipped and preserved at all cost. Hardly a dutiful servant view of the national government. He broke the back of state's sovereignty, destroyed for all intents and purposes the 10th amendment, centralized power and made the federal government very nearly accountable to no one but themselves. ENDA will be passed in the near future and you can lay the blame for this obscene tyranny at the feet of Lincoln. Ten thousand examples can be sighted.

I cannot comprehend how Lincoln could have digested Madison in the Federalist papers and then have done what he did. No way.

"The States created the union and the federal government. The federal government was to be chained down by lawful restrictions as a dutiful servant for the benefit of the sovereign states, most importantly national defense and secondly to provide a lawful way for states to settle squabbles without resorting to regional mini-wars."

And then the states began to rely on the Federal goverment for more and more, making it more powerful and comprehensive.

I guess so...

Glad she is banking money on it too.

In my mind though...

Take your best shot, strike while the iron is hot. Turn every debate to the Constitution. Make the liberal/communists at every turn come up face to face with the documents. Invoke their principles night and day. Quote them, frame the debate in the context of these documents.

All the veterans here took an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. This is where we take our stand. It is the big picture.

_______________________________________


Here is a link to Federalist 45. An entire presidential campaign could be launched and run on this one chapter ALONE.

http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa45.htm


This is not elitism.

And so this is why the federal government makes the federalist into heroes for school children TR, FDR, Lincoln it's first priority has always been to increase it power and to expand it's size and wealth. Not new and has never changed it's focus. Why not a widespread reading followed by a discussion of the Anti-Federalist papers? Perhaps they had a few insights of what would be the outcome and what this would evolve into.

This reminds me so much of the argument used against 'touchy feely' liberals two decades or so. They 'knew in their heart' what was true, whiles conservatives demolished their arguments with cold logic.

Now we have touchy feely conservatives? WYF?

This country was founded on the ideals of a government of laws, not men. I don't want politicians who do what they feel in their heart is right. I want politicians that follow the Constitution and the law!

YES!!!!! Somebody else who understands the REAL Federalists. The moderates of the day forced the Great Compromise on the Federalists that lead to the ambiguity of sovereignty between federal and state governments and ambiguity between the powers and separation of those powers between the three branches of the federal government. Only by reading and truly understanding the Anti-Federalists Papers can one really understand that the Federalists really wanted a strong consolidated central government.

Interesting. I'd venture the Constitution was largely written from the hearts of the Founding Fathers, and our current laws are written by special interests who have no heart. Another case of be careful what you wish for?

If she is a true conservative, shouldn't she be at home raising her kids?

...and wearing a burkha. TIC

Boy, Montana Marine you have stepped in it now. When I said that I was handed my head. Let me get my coffee before the fat hits the pan.

YES!!!!! Somebody else who understands the REAL Federalists. The moderates of the day forced the Great Compromise on the Federalists that lead to the ambiguity of sovereignty between federal and state governments and ambiguity between the powers and separation of those powers between the three branches of the federal government. Only by reading and truly understanding the Anti-Federalists Papers can one really understand that the Federalists really wanted a strong consolidated central government. [/quote]


Did you ever wonder why the southerns held Lincoln in such low esteem for so may decades in the face of all the federal propaganda to the contrary? I started wondering that issue many years ago, at first I thought it was over the slavery issue, My first inclination about the trouble with the widespread history is that it was not be presented fairly was the title in use during the war between the States, first off it was commonly called Mr. Lincoln's war This was the term in wide spread use, no such thing as a civil war at that time. Then I discovered Lincoln withdrawal of Habeas corpus. So much I learned that I was no longer a fan of the school days hero of Lincoln. Any even moderate search of these heroes of federalist history makes for a rapid vaporization of any and all good feelings towards these people.

Did you ever wonder why the southerns held Lincoln in such low esteem for so may decades in the face of all the federal propaganda to the contrary? I started wondering that issue many years ago, at first I thought it was over the slavery issue, My first inclination about the trouble with the widespread history is that it was not be presented fairly was the title in use during the war between the States, first off it was commonly called Mr. Lincoln's war This was the term in wide spread use, no such thing as a civil war at that time. Then I discovered Lincoln withdrawal of Habeas corpus. So much I learned that I was no longer a fan of the school days hero of Lincoln. Any even moderate search of these heroes of federalist history makes for a rapid vaporization of any and all good feelings towards these people.[/quote]

Yes I have. Once one gets beyond the PC history of Lincoln one discovers their isnothing heroic in Lincoln. A truly heroic Lincoln would have followed the Constitution and there never would have been a so-called Civil War.

And so the 14th amendment became the first big transfer of ownership in American after the Emancipation Proclamation. The emancipation Lincoln wrote freed no one, but did enslaved the slave to the federal government and the 14th enslaved us all for future courts. It also limited free speech. Lincoln did well for the Federalist.


A wonderful law school question, How many slaves did the emancipation proclamation free? The answer is a nice round number,zero.

I don't bother to read any of the self-serving tripe ghost written by politicians (or celebrities...if there's a difference), and am modestly surprised that anyone takes Palin's, or any other politician's, book seriously. Like all politicians, Palin is simply pandering to her constituency, and will parrot (or more accurately, her ghost writer and publisher will parrot) whatever platitudes they believe necessary to sell Palin's book. Nothing more nor less.

DITTOS +1,000

a good concertive mom [she bear] will look after her kids now and in the future .she sees things she dont like ,shes going to do something about it .

The Liberals fear/hate her, all I need to know at this time.

I agree with RickyD when he said this. "I'd venture the Constitution was largely written from the hearts of the Founding Fathers, and our current laws are written by special interests who have no heart."

They are heartless. They're led by darkness. They mean to do harm. They've proven themselves malicious in the extreme. The founding fathers (most of them anyway) proved the exact opposite.

Personally, I want politicians who follow the Constitution and the law because that's what is in their hearts to do. Being led by the heart to lead the nation back to the constitution, back to its roots and back to sanity. And the liberals with their continuous barrage of BS be damned.

That is why I was so disappointed. I took her dead serious, and believed her to be really truly different from the crowd. I had great hopes.

I guess this book might appeal to women a lot more than men, and if she is trying to get more women voters to consider her seriously then maybe there is some wisdom in that. That is the best spin I can put on it from my perspective.

Quite honestly I am looking to meet the next Sam Adams and champion his cause.

Wear protection.

The anti-federalists were right, as far as I can tell. But think of it, even the Federalist Papers are radical these days as compared to what we have in operation! Federalist 45 is MUCH too extreme to be discussed seriously in public debate, unless perhaps you are a Ron Paul supporter, and what are they called around here??? Paultards?

How old are you? Serously, your comments are pure trash! Ronald Reagan restored our belief in America my friend! Ronald Reagan, created 21 million new jobs in America, my friend! Ronald Reagan inherited double didget inflation that I had to live thru as a young person trying to raise a wife and family. Try buying a house with nothing down, in a double didget infationary time!!!! Reagan pretty much took care of ole Omar Kadofy, or did you convieniently forget that? Seems he was missing a few close ones after Reagan bombed his personal "house" at night. Reagan did everything that gave our Military the current "high Tech" capability we currently have, that was due to Reagan, My Friend. Reagan challenged the Soviet Union, and now we deal with Russia.....remember the wall? God, your comments are so pathetic! Go take a course in History, or better yet, if you are my age, try growing up for a change, and stop bull [bleep] people.

I turn 56 this week. How about you? Young enough (or something) to idolize people, I guess. I gave that up. They all disappoint someplace. I just pointed out a few.

BTW: much of what you say is true. So is what I said.

I don't think bombing Khadifi's compound was a high point for America, and Reagan legitimized peacetime military deficit spending. Now we are apparantly stuck with it, forever. Can't like that.

Reagan pushed people's "John Wayne" buttons... and the people, they liked it... just sayin'...

I feel the same way. I was looking forward to finding out where she fundamentally stands on the issues, along with an intellectual defense of why. [/quote]

---------------------------------------------

If Sarah will write a sequel and expand greatly on her last chapter; "The Way Forward" and put some meat on the bones, and some depth to the debate then we will have a real winner. I think it is possible. I have great hopes actually. Time will tell.

The war of ideas must be won.

Well, he certainly couldn't have pushed your "John Wayne button" he'd have to kiss you to do that!!

She probably would be, if she didn't have to keep carrying the water for men like you who would rather sit back and make not so funny wisecracks on an internet forum than take an active role in government!!

Who turned the dogs loose ???

The reason her book is a disappointment is she's a disappointment. There just ain't that much there. Pretty simple really...

some of you guys were blinders all the time//////????
read my first post about building a house ,think about it ,she is starting at the begining where she has to to claime it for her own ......you guys with dissapointment chit allover yourselves wake up????

Nemesis,

Shane has been out defending the country for 25 years, while you sit back and play pocket pool and keyboard kommando.

You've been a pimple on this site since you signed up. Why don't you pop yourself?

Sycamore

There are a lot of people in Alaska who underestimated her, too, many of them Rebublicans and she plowed them under.

I think the best outcome is not for her to go third party, but to re-claim the Rebublican party, by marginalizing all the moderate Bush/McCain Republican milk toasts. She can do it in spite of the libs and MSM.

Rather, alot of people in Alaska look at what she achieved, or rather didn't achieve, and hence are not impressed.

If she can push through taxation that put the industry that benefits the state 10:1 over all others combined and basically shutdown investment and cause the loss of 1000's of the highest paying jobs, and also pave the path for income taxes in the next several years, just imagine what she can do for the country!

She makes a great cheerleader, but she is no quarterback.

Isn't it strange how many call her conservative yet no real conservative would have done what you just described.

A real conservative doesn't shut down the major industry of a state with high taxes.

Palin is a moderate Fascist just like most of the Republican Party.

Who's gonna be elected President one day.

I'd doubt like hell she'd ever do anything like this

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

That is quite possible as the choice is always between a moderate Fascist and a liberal Fascist.

or Condi Rice

I am forced to concede in agreement with the Left that Palin just isn't that smart. Oh, I like her, but she isn't that smart. I like her common roots and her average upbringing and the fact that she represents everything that Leftists just don't understand about America. but, alas, I am also forced to concede in agreement with the Left that she is potentially dangerous.

She is dangerous in the same way that many of us feared Obama was dangerous. She is dangerous in that the unprecedented number of people who show up at her events have no articulable reason for liking her. Critical thought does not enter into the process.

I, at the very least, would like a presidential candidate who is able to articulate his positions in a lucid manner and explain the background of his reasoning. I would like a presidential candidate who at the very least showed passing acquaintance with Locke, Madison, Burke, or Jefferson.

But yeah, the undercurrent in this country is a little frightening. There once was a leader who instinctively understood leadership...who was a master at public speaking...who represented everything the common people loved about their country and hated about the intellectual class who had, in their eyes, ruined it...who was able to mobilize his country to heights never before imagined...and who made the world sit up and take notice of his bold accomplishments. THAT is the undercurrent we are getting here and frankly, it is getting a bit scary.

The amusing yet sad thing is, none of the potential Republican candidates measure up to the standard the anti-Palin people set for Palin.

Gotta agree with all of that.

Too bad she isn't the savior that we need, but there's none to be seen on the horizon either.

MM

Guess I will have to say the Sara Palin may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, BUT she does have all the core values that I would want in a president. She is many times smarter than this idiot that is in the WH right now. I'll give her my vote as many times as ACORN will allow me to vote. So far, any of the names that have come up for canidates don't measure up to her values and that's what I look for in a canidate.

panhandle, that is pretty much the point at this time.

When the Obamanation talks, you know he means something different from what it seems he is saying,
Sarah, on the other hand, talks straight. I can appreciate straight talk for a change.

I've said this before but it bears repeating. You don't have to be real smart to be president. You just have to be smart enough to know who the BSers are and who you can rely on.

Even the Obamanation didn't come up with all this krap on his own. And I don't think he's nearly as smart as he thinks he is.

Them's facts.

Hey man, I've been keeping my mouth shout as it's hunting season and I just haven't felt like getting into it but you need to know Shane is one of our FINEST board members. Both for what he has done for our country as well as the type of person he is. I deeply respect the man.


Anyways, you have any luck during archery this year?

That was a mighty fine post.

Yup. W failed on both counts and now we have Obama.

That answer will tell you about a lot of issues. Simply put "follow the money". You will get the reason she's no longer governer. No other reason.

I'll bet she planned it since childhood.

Hey I don't begrudge her the money. If I could do that I would but lots of people can right books that I wouldn't vote for. I like her personally. But I hate it when people say one thing and operate another.

nemesis,

Shane's top drawer in my book. Served a life time as a Marine and I would consider myself lucky to meet him.

I robbed this from and Alaskan site discussing Palin's book ... this sums her up pretty well ... in many Akn's eyes, I would say ...

-She governed left of center with regards to tax policy.
-She oversaw the largest increase in state government spending in state history.
-She has been less than honest many times when it is politically expedient.
-She seems to have a poor grasp of national and international political issues.
-She attacks folks personally who point out shortcomings in her governing instead of addressing those issues.


I find it amusing when people from the lower 48 say Palin didn't quit AK ... AK quit Palin ... LOL

ok

I suppose ignoring Americans being killed by terrorists'bombs would be the appropriate response? Reagan sent a message and it shut Khadafi up. I'd wager most Americans were cool with what Reagan did.

That sums it up very well.

She did leave the state better off than Begich left Anchorage

Didn't Reagan trade missiles (that were paid for with drug money) for hostages ... oh I forgot that was all Ollie's idea .... LOL

Worked out pretty good too. Less muslims than before.

Now he's trying to do the samething to the country he did to Anchorage. SCREW US!!

IIRC .... Saddam Hussein was even part of the deal ...

Let's see, we went from having a gas line project on paper with the previous governor, and now we have no project.

And I'll be lazy and post what I did in another thread:

How many billions has the state taken in oil revenue in the past 30 years? I'm sure someone has the number, I wouldn't be suprised if lease sales and taxes have resulted in $100 billion to the state. I don't think the state has been getting screwed, though we certainly haven't always been getting the best deal. The oil companies certainly haven't taken all the money.

The reality is, oil revenues provide 85-90% of the states opperating budget from taxes, as well as the $ in the permanent fund. So to my way of thinking, 85% of state employees are oil company employees (or wouldn't be employed if not for oil revenues) Then you have the money spent by folks that work in the oil industry on houses, cars, boats, food, etc. So the stance of, I don't work for the oil industry so it doesn't affect me, is very, very short sighted. We all profit from the industry, some more than others, and if the industry takes a sever down turn, we will all suffer.

There are two basic factors and oil company looks at, how much does it cost me to get the oil in the ground to market, and how much are my taxes. What's left is their profits. Alaska is the most expensive place in the world to produce oil, due to high salaries in our industry, which is a good thing and the distance to market. But, our taxes have to be structured so that the overall cost to do business is competitive with the rest of the world.

If you have $1 billion to invest to build a new oil production facility, are you going to invest in a location that offers you a 5% profit when you can make 10 or 15% in another country? Simple economics, and that is what drives investment by oil cos. The increased taxes from Aces has directly reduced the $ invested in Alaska since it was passed, and eliminated alot of jobs that likely had average salaries of 6 figures, or near there. So say we lost at least 500 in state oil co jobs, that's $50 million in lost incomes and money being spent in state.

Oil fields don't produce forever, so after the oil companies have invested billions in the infrastructure, they need to keep investing to keep production up by bringing online smaller fields that weren't economical to produce w/o existing infrastructure. But if those marginal fields are too expensive due to costs and taxes, they will not be built.

When I moved to Ak 12 years ago the trans alaska pipeline was pumping 1 million barrels per day, now we are at 600-700,000. Projections of decline are 3-6% per year if the oil co's don't invest in more production. So those high taxes sounded great, but if they result in oil production dropping in 1/2 in 10 years, they aren't so great. The state will take in more money with lower taxes on higher production, and those high paying jobs won't keep disapearing. We also won't see house prices tank.

So was that extra $1200, one time for every man women and child worth loosing out on 13 million barrels of oil each year in declined production (6% of 600k bpd)? At an average of $75 bbl and lets say 20% tax, that's a loss of $200 million per year, but then at that rate, the loss will be $400 million the following year, and then $600 million, that's 1.2 billion in 3 years just in tax revenue.

Oil has been good to our state, though they haven't been great. I just can't understand the attitude of, F em, we don't need em. Folks that have that attitude really don't grasp how our states economy is mostly run by oil $, and we'd be really screwed without it.




Alaskans have acted like a bunch of spoiled kids telling their parents to go F themselves because they don't have a big enoug allowance, with no clue what those parents provided them. Hopefully we aren't stupid enough to get our azzes kicked out of the house and have to fend for ourselves, but I'm not that hopeful. Why people think that Sarah is the greatest when Aces has cost at least 1000 of the highest paying jobs in the state to be terminated is beyond me. I figure it's a combination if ignorance and jelousy. Those that are ignorant of what drives Alaskas economy, and those that are jealous of high paying jobs and figure if they can't have such a job, might as well screw the pooch so no one else can either.

Blame Palin...yeah right

http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-heads-state/13137060-1.html


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/44740.html

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/463238753


http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Oil/idUSTRE53E0B320090415

As far as I know, we still have a gas pipeline. We're just waiting for big daddy Obama to approve it

On 3 July 2007, the Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin announced that the State of Alaska was ready to receive applications to build a pipeline within the framework of the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (AGIA).[8] On 4 January 2008, a proposal by TransCanada was selected. Four other proposals were submitted: By Sinopec, AEnergia, the AGPA, which proposed a liquefied natural gas project, and the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority.

On January 5, 2008, Palin announced that the Canadian company TransCanada Corp., was the sole AGIA-compliant applicant.[9][10] On August 27, 2008, Palin signed a bill into law giving the state of Alaska authority to award TransCanada Corp. 500 million dollars in seed money and a license to build and operate the $26-billion pipeline to transport natural gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48, through Canada.[11][12]

The license is not a construction contract, and federal energy regulators must approve the project before it can go forward.[13]

On December 5, 2008, the AGIA license, jointly awarded to Foothills Pipe Lines Ltd. and TransCanada Alaska, LLC, was signed in Fairbanks.[14]

I don't know if Sarah will be elected to any public office. I don't know if she'll even run for public office. What I do know is she has made a decent living disappointing those who would underestimate her. I expect that trend to continue.

1flier

You folks do understand that any natural gas that passes through Canada from Alaska will be stripped of the other valuable products that comes from natural gas?
That was the BS deal that Sarah gave up to Canada. Could it be that was what Canada wanted all a long? The answer is most definitely yes.


Not until the bridge to know where was such a big lie told about the gas pipe line. How does this help Alaska?


Fact is who is the largest employer in Alaska? It is Government, both State-and Federal. It sure as heck is not the oil companies.


So what would have been the logical way to reduce the cost of the State? Reduce the size of Government. What never got talked about at any time in all this BS, why reducing the size of government


Only Conservatives see the real problems, only politicians want to increase the size and power of government.

Sarah increased the size of government by 1200 in her short stay. Glad it wasn't any longer.

So what country would you have your pipeline go through. If Canada isn't suppose to have any part in your pipeline maybe find another country to go through. Seems to me Canada would risk environmental problems with the line so why not share in the benefits?

they get our ele power ,,water and gas real cheep,restrict our cattle sales should i keep talking or just shut up?

So what country would you have your pipeline go through. If Canada isn't suppose to have any part in your pipeline maybe find another country to go through. Seems to me Canada would risk environmental problems with the line so why not share in the benefits? [/quote]


You are right just like all the natural gas we sell to the Chinese, of course we send it through the pipe line to China. All the gasoline we send to the lower 48 is sent through the pipe line to the lower 48 is sent to you folks through, Oh wait, you don't mean there are no pipe lines to those places? How do we ship it? You mean it can't be shipped without a pipe line. So I guess we can only send it by mail?


My, my, my you can't be serious? Or can you? Oil has all gone through the pipe line to and oil terminal to Valdez to a harbour, why would they send it to and oil terminal that is a harbour, where ships come to load it on board to take it to a pipe line, through Canada?

bottomline, as i best understand it, oil, gas, water, coal, etc. will be shipped according to least-cost principles for the lifetime of the mining project. yes, a mining project is the base-case. shipping comes second, to the refinery, final users, or the distribution point. what ever.

so, if shipping by boat is less expensive than pipelines, so be it, and vice versa of course.

the distribution problem has been solved. it's a least cost scenario.

Even the thought of shipping gas out of Valdez, would delay the pipeline for years. Envirowhako's are concerned about another exxon valdez. Heck, they've even stopped expansion of our oil refinery, and forced us to import gasoline.
Don't let the facts get in the way boys, carry on.

nemesis,

A simple question is a wisecrack? I was actually quite serious. I would have though true conservatism would have mothers close to their families.

BTW, I took a fairly active role in govt for over 25 years.

I continue to take an active role in govt, at the polls. I think that achieves more than spouting conservatism on a conservative internet forum.

He seems to have had a genius to summarize great truth in a single sentence.

I love this one : �The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended� Frederic Bastiat

Does it not tell us everything there is to know, about the difficulties of conservatism at the hands of its Republican "defenders".

I agree with you Shane. I happen to have a autistic boy that lives near me. He takes a lot of time from his parents and he is not that bad. A good conservative Christian Mother is close to her family especially if one member is very young and autistic.

If I wanted to slam Palin, I'd just do it. I'm not shy, it's just not really my style.

Her results speak for themself.

I had high hopes for her when she first came on the scene. I thought wow, wholesome and attractive, outdoorsy, mom, conservative values. What a breath of fresh air in the realm of national politics. I thought Her and McCain would be a powerhouse.

Then she started running her mouth with reckless abandon.

If she was a team player things may have gone way different last election.

Aha.........so it was a criticism of Palin then huh?

Well that's what I kinda thought when I made my initial comments.

Wish you had just slammed her like you said instead of coming at it from that

"conservative woman" angle.

Although I don't agree with you, it certainly would have avoided a lot of confusion.

By the way, "wholesome and attractive, outdoorsy, mom's with conservative values" usually do "run their mouths with reckless abandon".........that's actually what makes a woman Sarah Palin unique in today's political arena.

As an alternative, I offer Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Dianne Feinstein et al.

Ya' know??

Have a nice Thanksiving Day.

Ahhh, yes. A man who recognizes things for what they are. Plenty to like about that!

I saw Palin on Hannity last night & I still like what she has to say.

And on O'Reilly and on Greta and they say the edited out portions of the perky one's interview were pretty good too.

And a year ago the the four best speeches of the whole campaign were as follows:
The first Ohio acceptance speech by Sarah Palin.
The second Convention acceptance speech by Sarah Palin.
The position paper speech on children with special needs by Sarah Palin.
The position paper speech on energy by Sarah Palin.
These last two were comprehensive, focused, in depth reviews of their respective problems and specifically, what to do about them. Obama, McCain, and Biden don�t even know what the word �focused� means.
The list goes on.

An honest assesment (the hot mess part), and a simple question.

No sugar coating or idol worship here, for any politicians.

I weigh her actions and results (personal and professional) over her words.


She will make millions on her words though (her book). American's love a good scandal.

I've never seen Shane say anything that wasn't true on this forum.

My wife stayed home with the kids the first 10+ years; I worked two jobs. It meant driving older cars, not putting money into our funky cabin in the woods, basically being poor and not playing the game...

I do consider it "conservative" to do so. Surprisingly, several of our "liberal" couple friends did the same thing, while most of my "conservative" couple friends chased the almighty dollar.

Shane's description of a "hot mess" is spot-on. This woman lacks a stiff core. She's not "the one" and will kill any ticket she's on.

DITTOS but who's listening?

Well now, at least we're on the same page.........whew!

I understand how you feel about Palin and I'm sure many others feel the same way.

That's what "makes the world go around" as they say.

I tell ya' though, it sure feels a lot better arguing with someone about who's the better conservative candidate out there than squabbling over how we can prevent the libs from taking more of our freedom away from us.......

Sarah Palin may, or may not be the answer........only time will tell.

But for now I consider her to be a "breath of fresh air" and that is something I think we can both agree is badly needed right now in the Republican Party.

Beck is smart enough to know what sells; he is in business. I hate that fluff too, but if I want good solid Conservatism I'll read Richard Weaver not Beck.

Palin is a shameless populist; not anything like an intellectual. Sorry guys, but by now you ought to have known better than to expect what you describe above.

She is a great lady and certainly a smart politician and far better than Hussein (that really ought to go w/out saying), but she ain't going to lead the Republican Party to anything other than 4 more years of our current President.

Please don't try to ride along on Shane's coat tails you miserable, low life, Obama voting, peckerhead!

You have the [bleep] audacity to come on here and make an assessment of Sarah Palin's qualifications after VOTING FOR OBAMA???

Palin may lack a "stiff core" as you say, but at least she has a core!!

Jeff_O (short for Obama) says:

"Listen to me folks, I am a wise beyond belief, I'll tell you about Sara Palin........."

Campfire member asks:

But you voted for Obama didn't you?"

Jeff_O(short for Obama) says:

"Yeah, but that was a mistake <sobbing hysterically>.

But trust me, I'm right this time about Palin........yup,................. I'm right about Palin.................hey is anyone listening to me ???"

JeffObama is a cogent argument against women's suffrage.

President Obama has a core too... it just happens to be one of anti-Capitalistic Socialism, which is the problem.

Your credibility regarding anything political, and particularly anything conservative is utterly ruined after voting for such a obvious Marxist black radical like the obamanation. He is the most significant threat and enemy United States may have ever faced. So are the mindless masses who conspired with him to usurp and denigrate the office of Presidency to propagate his goal of ruin to the greatest nation in the world.

RickyD,

Your partisanship, with it's attendant black-and-white tunnel vision, is duly noted.

Explain how mom staying home with the kids isn't the conservative thing to do.

I am not, and don't WANT to be, a "conservative" according to it's modern meaning. Y'all are demonstratably flat wrong about some very major things.

But that doesn't mean I haven't lived my life conservatively, in some notable and important ways. Also, according to what is right, I've taken some "liberal" positions.

If conservatism was all you think it is, we'd have a 1-party system. It ain't. And y'all ain't nearly so right about every-[bleep]-thing as you think you are.

My .02.

Which one would that be?

There isn't anything Conservative about Republicans, if that is the one party of which you speak...

So what the heck are you talking about?

Furthermore, there'd be nothing Conservative about a one party system because that which Conservatives are supposed to conserve is a strict understanding of the Constitution, which is in spirit opposed enough to the limits of the two party system, much less a one-party one...

I will, although it will not add anything to your lack of credibility regarding your vote for the Traitor in Chief. The fact that you insist on belaboring a trite and meaningless point only sends that credibility lower.

The concept of stay at home mom's is a traditional value, not a conservative value. Traditional values are those of morality. Those concepts so you hate and disdain to be placed in the political area, inseparable, though they are.

Conservative values are political. While the two are often complimentary, a woman assuming a demanding career in business or politics does not insure her children are either at risk or will suffer accordingly. Neither do they make her any less a conservative, though it does move her into a non-traditional mother role. Not that such is necessarily bad. Many pull it off well and raise good productive children into responsible contribution adults. I'm sure you know some.

Indeed, the fact that Sarah Palin dismissed her cook as Gov of Alaska, preferring to cook for her own family, tells me she was making sure she was setting aside quality time to be a good mother and example for them. I'm sure that was only one way she made sure her duty as mother to her children was being performed intact. Otherwise, she and her husband, would not have allowed her involvement. They strike me as very much people whose family is higly important and will not be neglected.

Conservatism or politics aside, the fact that you joined the mindless masses in voting for a man with such huge negatives and critically disqualifying associations says more about you than anything else you could assert about any subject. This man is obviously (to many) a tremendously dangerous person to be in any aspect of governmental leadership, much less in the highest office in the land which would elevate him to potentially the most powerful man on earth, but you still helped get him there. And that destroys your credibility.

As for my partisanship, I have criticized both Bush and the revered Reagan on this forum. I call it as I see it, and seldom shy away from a fight when I believe I'm right, but try to quickly acknowledge when another has trumped my argument with better logic or facts, if I get back to see that post. Neither do I have any interest in one party but would embrace three or four.

In any regard, Happy Thanksgiving, Jeff. I truly hope it was a good one for you and your's.

I'm saying that if conservatism, as currently defined in our country, was so obviously and completely "right", then we'd have no need for other parties. There'd be nothing to debate!

But it isn't. Hell, conservatism as currently defined isn't even conservative in many ways. It's a bitches-brew of religious fundamentalism, a desire for a HUGE (but "conservative") government, and oft-spouted but rarely-honored platitudes about a free market. It's a mess.

It sure ain't compelling enough to make me ignore my pro-Choice beliefs, and my belief that government and religion should be strictly seperated, or to ingots the many affronts to personal freedom and responsibility that "conservatives" advocate.

I'll just keep saying it. Drop the Puritan BS, govern from a position of limited government (meaning, among other things, the end of the American "empire"), and be fiscally responsible and I'm THERE.

RickyD- thanks, you too!

Actually I'm sitting here 6 hours from home, running a 102 fever, and feeling like I got hit by a truck. I've had a cup of coffee and and about 30 Cheerios to eat today, and they aren't sitting well. I feel about 80 years old and I'm guessing this isn't headed anywhere good. Bleah. But the kids are having fun with grandma and that's what counts.

Guess I won't gain any weight this year... grin...

My guess is that it's just some of that rotten, liberal-azz, Obama schit boiling out of you.

Why don't just kick back and read one of your Rosie O'Donnel or Michael Moore's books again..........I'm sure that will make you feel better.

Not that I really give a schit, but running your dumbass mouth off on the Fire and getting your azz kicked for it dosen't seem to be helping much!

I'm sorry to hear that for you. I wish no one on this site illness or discomfort. I will pray for your healing and your enlightenment. to the latter.

Thanks Ricky. I'm always up for some enlightment.

Regardless of political differences I hold you and most others here in high regard, and I know that most here are good people who what they think is best for the country.

I look forward to the day that the R's (or someone else) field a candidate we can agree on. I disagree because I'm not into pretending I'm something I'm not, and because I enjoy the debate. But it gets tiresome getting hollered at <g>. I'd rather agree; just need the R's to stop harping on the silly stuff, and act like conservatives...

I am, by the way, a registered Republican since the mid-80's... Just became sick of the culture war BS, and R's that say one thing but do another...

Sorry to hear that you are sick. Hope you get better soon.

That's why you voted for Obama huh,........ chump?

One things for sure ............Obama will never say one thing and do another!!!

Good grief.......who turned over the rock that you crawled out from under?

By the way, if you ever wonder why people here seem to dispise you so much, it's because your wrong headed decision to support the Devil in the last presidential election not only had implications for simpletons like you, but it also put the safety and financial well being of those Americans having at least a modicum of common sense at risk as well!

You should be very proud of yourself!

Thanks Tim. Not going well. I just retreated to bed.

Sure hope it isn't flu... fuuuuuuuck....

I can understand (though not necessarily agree with it all) what you say... just don't understand why in the world that would cause you to vote D, much less Obama!?!?!

There was a really good Conservative candidate in the last election that needed support and would certainly be against the empire building and fiscal riresponsibility we constantly witness in DC, lead by Hussein...

...and I too wish you a healthy recovery. We all have much to give thanks for, and it is tough (though deeply edifying) to do so when you're so under the weather.

"If conservatism was all you think it is, we'd have a 1-party system. It ain't. And y'all ain't nearly so right about every-[bleep]-thing as you think you are."

Neither are you as demonstrated by your vote for the magic muslim.

Palin's book Obama's Presidency... bitter disappointment.

Fixed it for ya'

Um... to be bitterly disappointed, wouldn't you have had to have expected more to begin with?

I don't think it'd be quite right to say I'm disappointed w/ this Presidency... I'm horrified that it has become even more than I'd originally feared, but disappointed?

Was thinking of the point of view from the other side, those who voted for him. I hope they will be bitterly disappointed. Or even from Obammy's view.