Remember Nicole Bobeck, the US skating queen of the late 90's? She was a nice looking gal back then. Take a look at what meth has done to her. She got busted for peddling the stuff.

Heck, she looks good for a meth user, they usually are skin, bones and scabs.

Pretty sure meth didn't do that to her, she did it to herself.

Roger that Scott. She is the one that chose to use & sell the crap.

I know of no other drug which causes such a rapid,addictive implosion as that Meth schit. I hope she heeds the wake up call!

seen it ruin more than one life

Meth is, or was, an epidemic in Idaho.

Crosses a LOT of "Societal and Economic Boundaries", too. It's not just about the Ghettos,.....

GTC

+1. takes 'em down.

Its amazing what the meth-heads will do to get anhydrous ammonia. Growing up working on a large farm, we would park our tanks 3/4 mile off a county road, behind locked gates. More than once we'd find the hoses on the tanks laying on the ground with the valves open draining the tank. Tried locking the valves shut, they'd just cut the hoses. At least when you're done stealing the 20 lbs shut the valve off.

Work for a large food processing company now that uses anhydrous ammonia for refrigeration. The security guy came around the building a couple of years ago to find a meth-head with a cordless Dewalt drill and a half inch drill bit, getting ready to drill into the side of a high pressure receiver to get the ammonia. 30,000 lbs of ammonia under pressure wouldn't have done him much good, or that part of the city for that matter.

Nasty, terrible chit.

Changes people in a bad way from day one.

In total, over two hundred million amphetamine-variant pills were routinely supplied to American air force personnel alone and to British troops, Japanese Kamikaze pilots on suicide missions and Nazi storm troopers and concentration camp guards to combat fatigue, heighten endurance and elevate mood, as well as inducing emotional detachment and quasi-psychotic aggression.
�
With World War II fueled by amphetamines, it is perhaps not surprising that Adolf Hitler himself was said to be unable to function without daily injections of near-fatal doses of Benzedrine from 1942, which were administered by his morphine-crazed physician, Dr. Theodor Morell.

It can only be speculated how methamphetamine may have affected the F�hrer's mind, serving to undermine his health, corrupt his judgement, steer his insanity and, ultimately, affect the course of the war. Certainly, in his final years, the dictator was a ruined husk of a man. Looking at least 20 years older with his sallow skin and glaucous eyes, he was stooped, shambling, drooling, trembling and incoherent, and exhibited acute signs of Parkinson's disease - all classic symptoms of chronic meth dependency.

http://www.lifeormeth.com/#/what-is-crystal-meth/4509174500

had to beat the hell out of a good friend 4 yrs ago. took him and his son hunting at the ranch caught him smoking that chit in front of his son and my son. haven't spoke to him since

Meth takes over the users mind and pretty soon it becomes all they think or care about.

People aren't designed to stay awake for days on end, what goes up eventually comes down(one way or another).

It's surprising how many kids get taken down by meth.....scary times, scary times.

Meth is the worst drug out there, it is 10x more addictive than heroin.

JD338

Ask any dentist about meth and they will tell you that it is easy to tell every meth user. It absolutely destroys teeth.

Brain tissue, too, apparently.

BRRRrrr,

GTC

That schitt is evil poison for sure.

A few years back I had to look at those scabs on the face of one of my daughters and it broke my friggin heart. I am beyond thankful that we were able to reach her, I can't imagine the hell this skater's parents are going through. They drive their little girl to skating lessons for years, go to all of her skating meets, then have to witness the destruction of their cherished daughter. We should build a special prison for those who cook and sell that crap.

A cemetery!

A perfect answer to a large part of America's hard drug problem.

There's a 97% recidivism rate among users attempting to 'reform'.

It�s the most devastating drug out there; entire communities and families often get wrapped up in the use and/or sale of meth.

Illegal aliens and druggies, they commit almost all of the crime.

And some, want to legalize both, call them harmless...

According to the ADAM II report, drug use among the arrestee population is much higher than in the general U.S. population. The percentage of booked arrestees testing positive for at least one illicit drug ranged from 49 percent in Washington, D.C. to 87 percent in Chicago. The most common substances present during tests, in descending order, are marijuana, cocaine, opiates, and methamphetamine. Additionally, many arrestees tested positive for more than one illegal drug at the time of arrest; from 15 percent in Atlanta to 40 percent in Chicago.

� In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

Coming to a house next to you...

Kent

no excuse for anything she has done, but how old was she when mom and dad pushed her to far into skating, 3 maybe 4 years old? What ever happened to her being a child, instead of skating she should have been playing with dolls, pretending to be a princess, and just being a little girl. sometimes mom and dad try to live their dreams through their kids. I don't know the entire story, nor do I really want to know, but it sure seems like a lot of these young atheletes end up fu*ked up. Just my .02

Sweet Jesus, Meth [bleep] her up, Mom having her skate at 4 years old [bleep] her up, no chocolate ice cream did it or maybe not being allowed to dress as Madonna one Halloween.

Guessing she isn't responsible for ANY of her actions.


WTF

Speaking of which, have any of you seen what GUNS did in Connecticut a few weeks ago? Damn guns killed 8

Meth is a major problem around here. An incredible number of local lives and families destroyed by this onerous poison.

We are FAR to easy on the users, oops victims, oops sick.

Close the border and deport all illegals and you'd have one tenth the meth on the streets. Even if just half, it'd be a great improvement.

The US Government wants an open border. Actually no border.

Meth is the drug from hell and our US government has become the government from hell.
Just something to think about... they want this stuff on the streets... and effecting our lives.

Still curious because reading your post I would assume that EVERYONE that is using Meth is only doing so because a gun was held to their head and they were forced to take it.


Again, seems we just can't hold an individual responsible for their actions. Lots of folks on here talk a big game but they are nothing but typical liberals.

The only "victims" of drug abuse are the family and crime victims of people that throw their lives away using the crap.

And the community ... the neighborhood that dires up because of it.
Just as some inner city 'hoods begin to come back. another generation hits the streets and takes over.

Another generation goes to prison or the graveyard.
No one works. They hold out thier hands and collect whatever they can.
And whelps another generation...

I can agree with that. Everyone knows how bad drugs are, some just don't care.

Too damn many don't care!

That same number applies to drunks and drug users.

Jim

Down here they use propane bottles to put the ammonia in. It will deteriorate the valves and is dangerous to others that do not know what is or has been in them. When filling back up with propane the valve can blow out and injure someone. You are supposed to watch for a blue color around the valve. miles

We need to legalize it so these problems wouldn't exist any longer.

Obviously, Steelie, it's a choice they make.
What I'm saying is there's more than one reason the gov't wants the open border. They're trying to destroy this nation which is no easy chore. So, they'll use whatever methods are available.

And you're right too, on the individual responsibility part. Gov't creates new groups of welfare recipients all the time. More dependency = less responsibility. It's all just a means to an end.

When you figure that schit is what some of the ... roaches... are using on kidnap victims (often 8-15 years old, though on up through college age or a bit older).

Why?

Get them hooked, IMMEDIATELY, torque their minds, then gang-rape them.

The addiction is there, instantly, and the impact of being gang-raped on their psyche is devastating.

The kidnap victims are then turned out as hookers, with the gangs taking the majority of the money, giving a little food (often very little), and enough meth to keep them addled.

Cute, huh?

Not everyone, but as stated, there are some. And, it's becoming more common.

As Va stated, some DO have a gun to their head. After that the drug takes care if itself.

With a daughter out there, and a wife here, and good pard's daughters who I care about as my own...

Knowing, seeing, living in/around/near what's out there.... often FAR too near....

And, folks wonder why I don't sleep.

Well, sometimes a good jackbooted thug is what is called for.....

Wanna guess how much you and I pay for the care of these losers on a yearly basis? How about the burned ones when their labs blow up? Not many of them have insurance and even fewer will ever go on to be contributory citizens.

Talk about some dead end sad sheeit.....

Excepting the minority that are forced, what insanity grips people they would want to take this drug? I can maybe undertsand folks who already hooked on something else, but how does it jump from generation to generation within a family?

Its not that common in the UK, but there was one case where the son was on it, and before the year was up, so was the mother and father. And this was an ordinary working family, not the scum you normally associate with drugs..

Here's a whole collection of photos of people before and after meth use. Why anyone would touch the stuff is beyond me.

Faces of meth

Of course all the "before" shots are mugshots as well which may be a pretty good indication of why.

Working in the oilfield here I've seen it way too many times. It doesn't have any boundries. We had a guy we previously fired put his 6 month old son in the ditch by the road because the "sloth people" came over the radio and told him to do it. The same guy came back trying to get a job once he got bailed out. Had it been in a different setting he'd probably had his azz kicked more than once before he made it off our property.

excuse my ignorance, but what causes the scabs on the faces? is it just on the face or the whole body? That chit scares me to death with 2 teen daughters to worry about, especially with how quick people apparently get hooked.

It starts with mild "Chlor-Acne", induced by the poison

They nervously PICK at themselves, chronically, for hours on end,.....and it's some repulsive and grotesque behavior to see.

Some of these bastards can be VERY dangerous, the scabs don't slow em' down a bit.

GTC

I believe the scabs are caused by the user's incessant scratching. For whatever reason, one of the side-effects of meth use is people literally gouging holes into their flesh.
Awful.

excuse my ignorance, but what causes the scabs on the faces?
============

The chemicals in the drug. If you would like a prime example of what it can do to one's brain, read Hawkeye's and DD's posts!

The maggots... they're everywhere... they where crawling on the windows, the walls... under the skin... scratch them out... shave the head... spray raid on myself...

Look,Look... there they are, all over the concrete forms...

I look and it's sawdust...

My brother, I stuck him up in the mts in a camper with food and a fishing pole four years ago... He's a 3%er now.

Kent

Didn't hear maggots but "worms".
Crawling not only everywhere you mention but under the skin. Many ointments and de-worming meds later, doctors still couldn't help them. They swore they could see them moving under the skin, and once in a while one would poke it's head up through the surface and give them evil looks. Eventally the worms went so far as to speak to them. There was also DEA agents up trees all through the neighborhood spying on them with binoculars and walky-talkys.

I was totally unaware, before hearing about this couple's plight, that the drug had hallucenagenic tendencies.

Simply amazing. It's the drug from hell.

The picking that causes the scabs and holes in the user's skin are the result of "meth mites"; the user believes there are tiny bugs under their skin, and they are trying to dig them out.

Yep, the nerve impulses from the drug makes it feel like something crawling under the skin, hence the scratching to dig them out, shaving the head, pesticides.

For my brother it was maggots.

Kent

Meth is bad in NE, but it was worse before the State cracked down of people selling #10 jars of pseudoephedrine at every convenience store.

The husband of a woman who I used to work with is in the Fed Prison system for cooking meth and having a firearm while doing so. He was a regular middleclass guy, a general contractor who fell on hard times and turned to cooking meth to pay his bills. The income was so great that he stopped contracting and started cooking several batches of meth a year. He had so much $$ that he was buying everything in sight. A bigger house, then a house on a lake, then a couple of jet skis, then a big ski boat, then a cruiser, just more and more and more. But there isn't any excuse for manufacturing drugs and I'm glad that he went to prison. It tore his family apart, but nobody forced him into the business.

The people who own the farm on the next section north of my FIL's home-place had to burn the house down after some guys broke in, nobody was living there, and cooked meth. The chemicals are hazardous and the cost of cleaning them up would have been more than the old house was worth. That prompted my MIL to tear/burn down all of the farm-steads on her farms, install center pivot sprinkler systems, and farm them fence to fence.

Jeff

With Meth there is one bad thing or two good things that is going to happen.

The bad thing is you will go to prison.

The first good thing is you will get clean... 3% chance

The second is you will die...

Kent

I'm curious also. My younger yrs I did a little drugs (not meth), but never got scabs or lose teeth like the addicts of today's generation.

I can't fathom any rational explanation why someone would get addicted to meth.

Rational is not part of the equation. These people are suicide cases,if there is such a thing as a slow suicide.

You are assuming she didn't like skating? A whole lot of kids who never got forced into sports started using meth for a various array of reasons. Our daughter was very active, she played soccer, baseball, ballet, piano lessons, she got all the trips to Disney, the SC Beach Bordwalk, she was a straight A student through Jr. High. Within one year she was cutting class, stealing from her parents, doing pot and meth and picking her scabs.

In our case we found out two years later, she was bi-polar and this led to self medication. Once we got the bi-polar problem diagnosed and treated, the meth use stopped cold turkey. Three years later she has not wandered off her medication.

I tell you this becasue there is no one reason to understand, or parents to blame. All our daughters had wonderful childhoods, to jump to that kind of conclusion is unfair to the parents at the least.

Not trying to jump you over your opinion, rather offering you an alternative point of view to consider for future thought.

Anyone here own a rental? Do you know what it'll cost you to clean it up if a renter runs a meth lab in the bathroom? It takes a hazmat cleanup crew and a LOT of money.

Barkoff;

Wow.....

Don't know what else to say....

Well that is truly one of the symptoms that shows you how poisonous that garbage is.

The sores are not caused by the meth, they are self inflicted by the user scratching the itching the meth causes to the face. My understanding from talking with my girl, was that there are no sores visible, just and itch to scratch until the user scratches themselves raw, and then scabs.

Whoops, I see that was answered.

Yep, BTDT!

" There was also DEA agents up trees all through the neighborhood spying on them with binoculars and walky-talkys."

Yup, and once one gets on to that tendency towards hyper diseased paranoia, it makes it REALLY easy to [bleep] with their creepy minds,or whatever's left of same.....if and when a nest of em' shows up in YOUR district / neighborhood.

Think phony cameras, blinkin' LEDs and a variety of chirpers, and buzzers, Black cutout silhouettes that pop up (Monofilament line activated) and than scuttle away through dry grass on dark nights,.....The occasional million candlepower spotlight / landing light,....and one of my favorites, The old monofilament, catgut, and rosin "Growler" attached to their wall. Predator call tapes are good ( most of these creeps are pavement pounders, just hiding rural). Put up a large , well made sign with a Hypo, reading "Caution, Addict Crossing".

My neighborhood is Meth Addict free zone now. I intend for it to STAY that way.

GTC

Scott, you hit the nail on the head, NOBODY is held accountable any more!!! If your a superstar in sports and get into trouble, it's you agents, parents or neighbors fault. Tiger Woods got in a bit of trouble for playing hide the sausage a bit to freely so he has a disease!!!! Disease my A$$

As Scott say's, knowbody is holding these folks down and forcing them to do the drugs their doing...Be Accountable damn it!!!!!!!

Barkoff,
That is quite a story.
I assume your daughter is doing well(off the meth) now?

Well you know it was a tough time, but we got through it. My wife has the bi-polar in her family but but she herself never was afflicted. We spent months treating the drug abuse only to find out that was a symtom, not the illness. Only when she became full blown manic did doctors recognize her symptoms were other than drug induced.

I know many think the whole bipolar deal is nothing but an excuse for poor behavior, but those who witness its fury know otherwise. It really is no different than calling dementia an excuse to forget what you don't want to remember.

I assure you guys I only speak about it becasue it is so awful, and maybe some poor dad might reflect upon my experiences if needed in the future. My daughter would be plenty pissed if she knew I was discussing it on a forum.

Bi-polar is the mental health problem from hell, just like meth is the drug from hell. But the meth can be avoided.

have to deal with a few bipolar ppl that refuse to take medication.....drives up my stress level horribly when i see them coming to talk to me cause you can flip a coin to decide whether they are gonna be your best friend or looking to take your head off and you have done nothing to help yah guess which its going to be....

Barkoff, cant imagine having a daughter going through it.....glad your daughter got it sorted out and is on the right path....

Well yes and no. There are a lot of scars that don't go away real easy, things she did while she was sick. She once stole my grandfathers rifle and sold it for drugs. After a few days of pressure she finally coughed up the name of the kid who gave her $50 for it. It took two days of threats to get him to give up where he took it. Then I did something real dumb. I walked into a body shop full of Mexicans and walked up to the owner and told him he had two days to produce the rifle or I was bringing the cops in to shut down his shop. I then played him the recording of the kid spilling his guts over the phone.

Well good thing for me, he panicked instead of shooting me. He told me the rifle was long gone and he would buy me a new one. I told him I didn't care if he had to get on his hands and knees and crawl back to Mexico to get it, he had two days.

Well two days later I had it back, they had tried to scratch off the serial but there was enough there that I had it re-engraved, but I did have to re-blue the old 99. Isn't a time I pick up that rifle now that I don't think about that whole scenario, but at least the old Savage now sits back in my safe.

The whole ordeal put the family though hell, for her sisters as well as us. Although we still love her, neither her sisters or my wife and I have been able to gain back a total trust yet. It's like they said in a drug counseling we all went to, the trust that can be lost in a day can take years to get back.

As long as she keeps to her meds for the bipolar, we'll get there.

Still is, so says a friend of mine who recently retired from a local LEO agency.

Also it is not unusual to hear a report on the news about cops knocking down a meth lab here.

L.W.

Well Sir I will certainly add Y'all to my prayers. I am truly glad she is on the right path and has such support, it is a mighty tough row to hoe.

Well yes, if you are of sound mind...but who of sound mind would pump that poison in the first place?

I hear what you are saying T Lee, but my experiences have changed my outlook towards the people I see out on the street. I recognize things now, that I overlooked in the past. Things I saw as goofy behavior caused by drug abuse, I recognize as something other with drug abuse on top of.

Being from Santa Cruz I would be a liar if I didn't tell you I got a lot of good laughs at the "nuts" throughout the years, but now even my other two daughters come home and tell me stories such as somebody who was bipolar and manic in a grocery store, and how it brought them to tears to see people laughing at them. "That could have been our sister they were all laughing at". Years ago they too would have laughed I tell them, now you know better.

Barkoff,

I'm glad your daughter got it together. I know how rough it can be. Both from a child and parent's perspective.

-steve

Actually the importation of Meth. has gone down a bit. The USBP and other border area LE agencies have done a good job of combating the importation. The local labs, many being mobile labs have started producing again. It was easier a few years ago to buy Mex. Meth. then to produce it yourself. We saw a drop in seized labs and snitch info. that proved it. That along with all the laws and limits on the ingredients, made it more risky.

Remember the people in the drug world are dumb, but they're not stupid. It's a BUSINESS, it's about supply and demand. They've researched and experimented with recipes, to a point of good quality Meth being produced in a 2 liter soda bottle.

No more heat source, no more glass cookware. It can be made in a car while driving down the road, with less required chemicals. The Meth. can be extracted, the bottle and waste liquids thrown away, in the ditch of the roads in your county.

Thanks, I didn't mean to turn this thread into a therapy session for myself, sorry about that.

Carry on Gents.

That is part of the hell I was referring to it really clouds judgment among other things.

I appreciate that Terry.

The Ghettos was an interesting point. Meth. is very much a white drug. I've seen it's use in everything from trailer thrash to country club members. I've not seen any Blacks involved in the snorting, shooting or smoking of Meth. Now Homey will smoke Crack like a fool, but he'll stay away from Crank.

We're seeing a big increase in locally grown pot lately. The surrounding 3 counties have discovered a bunch of patches being grown in corn fields, many being reported by the farmers who are unknowingly 'sponsoring' them. It's safer for the cartels to grow it here than to smuggle it in. Most likely, the stuff is being grown by farm workers who know when the corn will be harvested and who are on hand to care for it without suspicion.

atleast 60% of the pot in the US is "home grown" be it in the corn field as mentioned, on national forest land or in some guys basement.....the reason for this is like anything else ppl will pay top dollar for quality product....Mexican field grown pot is often pretty low quality and the only reason it is profitable is due to volume....you can get 2 to 3 times as much for high quality well cared for pot from plants grown by someone here....

and as someone pointed out, given a couple new techniques of being able to make meth in a pop bottle while driving down the road will likely decrease the amount of stuff coming from Mexico, but the number one buyer of pharmacy grade Ephedrine aint places like legit drug companies its purchased by Mexican cartels that make batches of meth on an industrial scale....

It does unbelievable damage in a short time. The mechanism of destruction is not well understood, but 5 liters of coca cola a day wouldn't come close.

I'ld like to see any media reports that tie the production of small patches of MJ. in Idaho to the Mex. drug cartels, that would be interesting to read. Is this what the local LE has confirmed or is this just suspicion? It's probably locals trying to make a fast buck if they're not caught. With ID. being so close to British Col. which produces a very high THC MJ. you'ld think that would be the source for most MJ smokers. We get BC bud, here in the SE, that's been smuggled across the border and transported for resale in the SE.

The effects of the by products of this drug are horrible. When I worked for the DOT in my state, we attended some classes to prevent harm from unintential contact with waste materials. People were parking campers in rest areas etc brewing meth. Throwing the residue on the ground, or leaving it in trash bags was common. Casper Wyoming police force had a large number of officers suffer permenant lung damage from a broken trash bag of powdered residue, a by product from brewing meth. Rental homes have had the residue thrown in the yard and require the removal of the top FIVE FEET of soil on the entire lot to be clean enough for habitation.

Babies and children have become sick and show symptoms of withdrawal from meth after crawling on motel room floors where meth had been brewed. Its to the point that your not safe from it anywhere. The meth craze in Wyoming 8 years ago or so caused an outbreak of Hepatitis C that was something like 10 times the size of a pandemic. Shared needs had hepatitis running rampant.

If anyone is interested, the Casper Wyoming police department have an EXCELLENT program that can be borrowed, or probably electronically transfered to you for display in schools, work or even in the home. I would highly recommend it.

all the meth lab stuff here, and there has been alot is local junkies that decided they were gonna make it and sell it so they didnt have to pay for it anymore......given they are junkies any money they made off it went right back to buying supplies to make the next batch....none of the local stuff has been in anyway tied back to Mexico.....cant say that is the same for other areas but would find it unlikely in alot of cases....

It is "white folk's crack", no doubt. I leave the debate on how one can "avoid" it, or who had a gun held to their head to the rest of you. Like all problems, when one does become an addict, you then have an addict to deal with. I can tell you, and I have worked both sides of the table in the courtroom in a rural white southern county for 7 years now, meth is bad stuff. If your answer to this, or any other addict's problem, is simply "lock 'em up", then you're short sighted, and not paying attention to how little good it does.

Meth users also fall in to a unique catagory of drug users. They normally make their own stuff. They gather in small groups, bring the needed items, and make it for themselves and their meth friends. It's rarely, sold like crack on the streets. To that end, many addicts/users are charged with manufacturing (higher charge than even distribution usually), when they're merely making their own stuff. (Cops love it because they get to put an addict away) So, the crack addict gets "drug court", or probation, and help to get him off his drug of choice for possessing cocaine, but the meth addict gets 20 years for making his own product, and gets a doctoral degree in criminal behavior. Meth labs can blow up injuring others you say? Yeah, maybe...but these days they've got it down to a science such that they can make it without the dangerous heat sources they use to, and a lab can be carried in the trunk of a car, in a small box. It aint like 20 years ago where you had to have a big garage, and you could smell them for blocks. Many of the meth cases I prosecute are made by game wardens driving up on them making it in the woods in the trunk of their car.

Anyway...yeah, you can not do meth the first time, and often it's a life changing experience if you do. But, lots of folks use poor judgement...running stop sign or speeding will only net you a ticket, but with bad timing can be full of deadly consequences too. Best way to deal with drugs on the streets? Do away with the demand. EVERYBODY wins if we can turn the addict in to a productive member of society. Society only wins a little, and for the short term if they have to pay to house them and feed them in the prisons for a few years. Some won't ever change...and some can only be locked up...I've seen a great many, when finally at the crossroads, turn it around...though admittedly, meth has the lowest success rate of any drug I've seen.

One addict...one of my old clients...was in court yesterday. I had to let another prosecutor handle his probation revocation. Super nice old boy. In his 30s...20s when he got hooked. Comes from a good country family that owns some nice hunting lands. Caught a manufacturing charge with his "friends" like I described above, and while out on bond caught another, and bonded out, then caught another. In the span of 6 months, caught three Class A felonies. Was looking at LOTS of time. Well it finally got where I couldn't get him a bond, and he needed to stay in jail anyway. Rocked on for 2 years, and he was a trustee...good one. Sheriff and all the deputies liked and trusted him. He was the last plea, last case I handled in private practice. I literally drove in to court to plea him the day I was offered my current prosecutor job. He waived any potential conflict, and with the sheriff's blessing, was given time served, but had 18 years hanging over his head if he messed up...he did, and caught another case too. Still just as nice a guy as you'd want to meet, never got all scabby looking or lost his teeth, and always had a job. Hard worker by all accounts. I don't know if DP will make it this time or not. He's certainly fattened up while in jail. I hope he does make it, he's a decent guy and everybody will be better off if he does.

DP is just one case...I've handled many meth cases. Some POS's, some, many in fact, just decent folks with a problem due to one lapse in judgment. Yeah, they did it to themselves usually...does that mean we can't try to help them?

I was shocked to learn that a pharmaceutical version of Meth (Desoxyn) is used to treat children with ADHD...

Not sure how that can be when its so addictive, unless addicts take it at sunstantically higher doses???

We've been taking highly addictive drugs for years and years with prescriptions. In fact, many an addict thinks they're either not an addict because their drug of choice is legally prescribed, or they're "different" because they came by their addiction "the honest way", and not on the street.

im positive me and my sisters were borderline ADHD....or atleast ADD.....how did my parents deal with it? kicked our arses outside and made us run the energy off.....also listened in school cause if not dad would use the belt.....didnt take long to get the message through, aint one of us that got a whippin past 9 years old and we never had a problem in school no matter how bored we got....

both my girls had ADHD, we did not medicate them but instead put them with teachers willing to do one on one time with them and help them out....both pretty much snapped out of it by the 5th grade.....no medication needed though we also didnt let them have caffeine or alot of refined sugar which made them alot worse.....would have been easier for us to drug them? prolly but they prolly would still be taking the drugs to this day cause we wouldnt have seen the change in them that happened at about 10 years old....im positive they are better off now then they would have been had we taken the pharmaceutical way out.....but i also realize each case is individual and with a really bad off kid with it, meds may be the only answer...

take a heavy coffee drinker off his coffee cold turkey and they will begin to understand addiction having quit both heavy caffeine use and prescription pain meds cold turkey before the first day is pretty close to the same feeling for both.....but caffeine clears out quicker than opiates and the withdrawals dont last aslong

I am totally addicted to caffeine, the first hour in the morning will have me with a raging headache and REALLY pizzy mood without coffee. First thing in the AM I pour & drink a cup of coffee, last thing at night before retiring I finish a cup of coffee. And I constantly am drinking a cup ALL day long. Finally getting off the cigarettes is likely the hardest thing I have ever done.

its an epidemic here in our local area...

for most of its users, I have no sympathy for them...

sad thing here, is that most manufactured here, is out in the forest area which covers 75% plus of a county bigger than Rhode Island...

then it is shipped down to the Bay Area and So Cal...

guys who manufacture it need an instant 45 cal lobotomy on the spot in my opinion...

i cant stand coffee and am drinking 6-8 cans of Coke a day......im fully addicted aswell....but at a small newspaper where you wear a dozen different hats during the day yah gotta keep yourself going some how.....get to work at 8, work till 5 at the office then head out to meetings till between 10 and 1 am, get up the next day and do it over again......caffeine is my life blood......but i have given it up a couple times for various reasons, usually when i hit a stretch where im not sleeping well so i know what coming off of it is like....

I was dating a gal last year that is a forensic chemist for the ISP in Boise.
She told me that meth is down a fair bit in Idaho the last few years, while heroin,marijuana, and cocaine use are all on the rise.

Seafire,
Agree a hundred percent.
Drug refining/dealing should be a capital offense, IMO.

I don't............... .22's are cheaper!

Terry,
I was thinking 'capital' as in the summary liquidation of offending parties...

I've read several people question why people would ever start using drugs. People who don't know much about biochemistry/neurophysiology don't realize what receptors are involved and what senses/feeling are invoked/activated by these substances. Its been said that the first hit of heroin is like the best orgasm of your life TIMES TEN. If you're in your twenties and don't know much about drug X and your new-to-the-drug friend tells you what it feels like and you try it just once - many become instant addicts.

Exderin Migraine, it has some caffeine in it, a good way to combat those headaches. Only stuff that ever really worked on my migraines.

Well not to get that scientific, how many here are ten or twenty pounds overweight and wish they weren't? You know how it would enrich your life in the outdoors to get it off, you know how much better your heart and knees will be better off without it, but you just can't cut off the food intake enough to take it off?

Now imagine all it took was to over eat down at the pizza pub one time to get you liking food that much.

Just a good LARGE cup of coffee will kill it, it is the lack of caffeine levels that cause it.

my wife gets migraines and laughs at that stuff.....but there are several types of migraines which is prolly why it works for you and not her.....be VERY happy that stuff works for you cause alot of the migraine meds are damn expensive....

one of only two times i was set to do harm to a doctor was when they had a rent a doc at the hospital here and i hauled my wife in during a bad one and he told her he didnt believe in migraines and said she was just looking for a shot of demerol.....had the wife not dragged me out i was fixing to put his head in a vice and ask him if it hurt....

You're solid, Barkoff. Thanks for sharing these painful, personal things. Here's hoping your daughter stays on the straight and narrow.

I think that anyone convicted of the manufacture, distribution, transportation, and/or sale of illegal drugs should be sentenced to mandatory capital punishment on the 1st offense.

OR

I think that the manufacture, distribution, transportation, and/or wholesale of illegal drugs should be legalized and controlled by the U.S. Federal Government, with retail sales a State Government monopoly, like liquor sales in NH. Anyone convicted of the manufacture, distribution, transportation, and/or sale of illegal drugs should be sentenced to mandatory capital punishment on the 1st offense.

The use of illegal drugs is so widely accepted that it isn't much different, in many people's minds, then drinking alcohol or smoking tobacco. The odds of eliminating illegal drugs are about the same as when prohibition, the Volstead Act, attempted to eliminate the consumption of alcohol and the results are the same, huge profits flowing to organized criminal gangs.

Face it, America is weak. We don't even have the will to secure our borders against an invasion of 12,000,000 illegal aliens, many of whom are hard-working individuals who only want to provide for their families. If 99% of illegal alien fall under the "hard-working......only want to provide for their families." catagory, that still leaves 120,000 "bad" illegal alien who are criminals and should be aggresively hunted down and eliminated via a small applicaiton Sarin, Tabun, or Zyklon-B.

Jeff

Coffee will fix anything.Elixir from heaven.

meth was a big problem in the oilfield back in the late 70s early 80s. knew of more than one that got killed becuase of it

Many kids with ADHD will be calmed by a stimulant such as caffeine. The drugs used for clinically "hyper" kids are actually stimulants themselves, substances which would make "normal" kids hyper rather than calm.

i realize that but the key term there is "most"......give one of them a can of pop with caffeine in it and you could watch them start to vibrate.....

had a friend one day that decided to help us out and take them out to eat while we worked over lunch....warned them not to give them caffeine.....they got to McD's and thought how bad can they be? and let them order what they wanted....before they got back to the office both girls were bouncing off the walls.....we told our friend that they were now her problem for the next couple hours.....she never gave them pop with caffeine EVER again......

Caffeine didn't hurt then, it was the sugar rush, mickeys even uses it on their fries.

My son was hyper and our Doc told us to try coffee before he would prescribe any of the drugs. It worked and he never was on any meds, never made a zombie and did quite well in school after that.

I wonder what Bi_polar people did 50 years ago without meth to solve their problem? Did the drug use of the 60's produce Bi-polar kids? Never heard of such a thing when I was a teenager!

Holy [bleep], you pricks just scared the living Christ out of me.....I have an eleven year old daughter.

50 year ago the bipolar people were in asylums and hospitals where not much was know what to do with them. They pretty much sat around all day drugged and drooling. You are right though, it is on the rise, maybe in another fifty years we will understand why.

one reason some of these disorders seem alot more common now is in quite a few of them the definitions of the disorders were broadened in the last 20 years......want to know why autism is more common now than 20 years ago? in the mid 90's the description was broadened and then a whole lot of kids that werent labled as autistic the year befor suddenly were so on the raw stats it looks like a hell of a jump in cases when nothing really changed......

and as Barkoff said before 1980 a whole lot more of these ppl with mental disorders were kept locked up and drugged up in asylumns

If you listen to my wife, it's all the chemicals they are putting in our food and plastic containers.

could very well be a part......but the fact they broadened definitions accounts for some of the big jumps.....major issue is everyones body chemistry is a lil bit different, what dont affect the majority can send some individuals spinning off on a different tangent....

"Methamphetamine was first synthesized from ephedrine in Japan in 1893 by chemist Nagai Nagayoshi and In 1919, crystallized methamphetamine was synthesized by Akira Ogata via reduction of ephedrine using red phosphorus and iodine". This stuff has been around for a very long time. Common Chemistry when you get down to it and a lot of money. I can say this, being unemployed has be tough. I been out to long now. I never though gee my problems can go away by making this junk! I like my liberty too much and what little I have to much for the risks and you will get caught. I guess you could say I have a moral center and I know right from wrong. Its one thing to go into a corn field and find a couple of ears of corn as J.J Walker would say, its another thing to plant dope or cook Meth in that same field. What has happened to the moral center of the country? This stuff is so tragic.

I oh so wish they WOULD do something with these people that deal and use. But, let me give you a few excerpts from our Towns newspaper...a county of about 15,000...

L.K. Perkins, defendant withdrew previous plea of not guilty and entered a plea of guilty to count 1, theft, count 8, battery resulting in bodily injury and count 9, operating a vehicle with a schedule 1 or 2 controlled substance or its metabolite in the body. Pursuant to plea agreement, defendant sentanced to count 1, one year OCJail, all suspended, to run consecutive to counts 8 and 9; count 8, sentenced to one year OCJ, all suspended, to run consecutive to counts 1 and 9; count 9, sentenced to 60 days OCJ, all suspended, to run consecutive to counts 1 and 8; two years and 60 days formal probation with the following conditions: Obey all laws, probation user's fee 100/30, standard terms and conditions of probation, $50 administrative fee, no contact with B. Toliver or other victims, not to go on the property of Michael T's Motel; 90 days loss of license, restitution to B. Toliver in the amount of $8330.06. Defendant further ordered to pay fine of $1 plus costs of $164. Pursuant to plea agreement, counts 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 are dismissed.

Darn...I couldn't find any of the "good" drug cases that have very similar outcomes.....fine and probation.....

Sounds like here.

Parents have been unknowingly hooking their children on a drug lifestyle, to make their parenting chores easier.

Schools often demand adhd kids are on meds, so make teaching them easier.

They are creating a generation of drug addicts.

For a lot of different reasons, to boot.

I'm one of those people who view ADHD a gift, but unfortunately it doesn't fit into what they are required to be in school.

ADHD kids can climb to the top of mountains and hunt/fish for days on end, all without a complaint.. all meanwhile "normal" kids lay inside playing video games and sleeping in.

Any kid raised right can/will do that; or raised wrong can/will do the other.

Medication is about control; diagnosis is about limitations on rights later.

If a kid gets diagnosed with a mental disorder early, it makes it FAR easier to restrict their rights to, say, firearms, later in life. Far easier to have them continue to be placed under "supervision" of .gov "for their own good" later....

I partially agree, though I believe a "normal" kid can as well. My boy is a terrorist but would much rather be in the woods than anywhere else.

The flip side: For the last three years me and my pard have taken a "kid" (he just turned 18) with us on our annual Ohio hunt. He went to an "alternative" school that was glad to have him doing "real world classroom" type stuff. He's a damn good kid and has developed an excellent work ethic.

George

I have an 11 year old nephew who is on medication for ADHD although I'm not sure what drug but I will checking now.

And yes, what you say about Schools requiring it is quite right.

From my understanding, there is still a lot of debate whether ADHD is a real medical condition or a behavioural condition, but its impact on the child is certainly real and damaging what ever the root cause.

given how quick my girls snapped out of it im inclined to think its medical.....some chemical imbalance in the brain that reset itself as my girls started hitting puberty....would medication have helped them up to that point, im sure it prolly would have but the question then becomes would we have noticed the change and took them off the meds?....you should have heard the comments we got from the teachers from the girls' change between about the 4th and 6th grade somewhere....the girls went from a smart but pain in the arse kid in class that couldnt be kept on task to able to sit and focus without a problem....during this time the girls were attending a small rural school with one classroom per grade, the teachers thought we swapped out the girls with clones.....

I personally think that the more science discovers about brain chemistry the more complicated things appear.
I was reading something a while back that made it sound as if serotonin and other compounds that I have always understood to be produced in the brain are actually made in the lining of the digestive tract, of all things!

Retlin (sp?) which is a drug used to treat ADHD is an amphetamine. In low doses in children it has a calming affect. In high doses in adults, it is the other way around, and has the same affects of meth, or any speed drugs.
Its amazing what dope heads will do to get a hit. We use alot of ketamine (sp?) in tranqualizer darts. For sedating lions in NM that we have caught for the state. You talk about having to jump through hoops to get the crap. WOW
There has been many break ins at our local vet offices with people trying to steal ketamine. Supposedly they squirt it on a plate, then dry it to a powder in the microwave and then snort it.
My question is this. Who dreamed this chit up? Who thought one day, that they would mix anahydrous ammonia, and a bunch of other chit up, and then snort it?

Toby Joe

I have a very addictive personality. There were multiple times in college that I was around crank and coke. I had every opportunity to do it. I thank God that I was smart enough not to. I would be dead, or worse would not have had the chances to see my wonderful boys grow up. I would prolly have never gotten married for that matter.
We all have our vices. Im very addicted to copenhagen. I dipped it one time, and have been on it ever since. I can do with or without caffine. But did get on the pain meds once unknowingly. After my first knee surgery, they sent me home with a very large bottle of very strong Lortab. Was told to take 2 every 4 hours as long as I was hurting. Over the course of laying flat on my back for 4 weeks with my knee in a machine, and then 2 months of PT, one day I caught myself looking at the clock to see if it was 4 hours, and I wasnt hurting. I decided to quit. I have never came off of anything else, but I cant be much worse then what I went through that weekend. I thought I was going to die. I think death would have felt better.
After this, I had a new outlook on people that become addicted to drugs. Sometimes just a simple surgery, or thinking that they will just do it one time, can turn into a life of misery. I used to look down my nose at dope heads, but now I realize how easy it can be to become addicted to something with only one small wrong decision.

Toby Joe

my first experience with opiates was after a knee surgery....was naive and wasnt paying attention to what i was actually taking.....when i decided i didnt need them any more i just quit taking them.....half way through a really chitty hangover type experience i looked up the drug and discovered it was an opiate....

also found out with my back injury that opiates do a really chitty job at helping the pain from a bulged disk pressing against a nerve.....wound up taking 3 times what i needed for a similar amount of pain in my knee to get any relief....opiates work great for pain at nerve endings like a knee injury.....not so well when the source of the pain is where the nerve comes off the spinal cord and is causing "ghost pain" down your leg....can see how those with back injuries wind up taking large amounts of pain killers....

I can certainly relate to that. I was medevac'd from near the Cambodian border in 4/70. The corpsman gave me 4 syrettes of morphine before the dustoff arrived. Then to 3rd Surg at Binh Thuy for a week or so with regular morphine shots, then to the 93rd Evac at Bien Hoa and more morphine. AND I WASN'T EVEN BADLY HURT! I was only 20 years old and didn't know anything about addiction, but I knew I shouldn't be watching the clock and looking forward to getting a shot. I told the doc and nurses to quit giving me anything for pain, and as soon as I was discharged from the hospital I hit the gate, caught a ride to Tan Son Nhut and caught a chopper ride back to my outfit. I was only in the hospitals for 3 weeks, but felt like I had escaped from the gates of hell. I went right back on the line and was glad to be there.

Thanks for posting Barkoff.
Stories like yours need to get out.
The good Lord bless you and yours. Hang in there.

I'm just beginning to realize it. You're absolutely right.
Seen several people lately going down the tubes.... now I know why. Perfectly normal people all of a sudden acting strangely. 2 - 4 years later they're going in for false teeth...



Sounds like a buddy of mine with a piece of farm ground near Plainview. House wasn't worth much so it didn't bother him, but when he found out people were using it as a party house/meth lab he burnt the place down and let the pivot spin all the way around rather than windshield-wipe.

LOL!
I like the way you think my friend.
Here's to much success and many a good belly laugh along the way!

Yes, meth is very, very nasty stuff. I'm continually amazed that folks still try it, knowing how addictive and destructive it is.

On a much lighter and enjoyable note, as long as Tanith Belbin stays on the ice, I'll continue enjoying women's figure skating.

Saw a guy a few years ago go down the tubes. Lost his business and everything.
Known him since we was kids, although he's a few years older than me. He said one day the only way he knew to get help was to get busted and do some prison time. He kept using and selling until he got his wish. He says it's the best thing that ever happened to him: "I'm finally free."

Your eyesight is perfect!
Something I've suspected for a long time. And I don't like it.

More exceptionally good eyesight.
My weakness is the pain pills. Only in very rare circumstances will I agree to use them. I like them WAY too much. So I avoid at all cost. I don't care about pain, life and family is just too important so I refuse. I have to.

I seen what guns did to you.

fortunatly i dont have an addictive personality of any sort......get the physical addiction stuff ofcourse and usually those side effects are what wind up pissing me off and quiting the pain pills cold turkey bout once a year....work doesnt let me take them during the day most days so when i hit a certain threshold i start getting the skin crawling feeling at bout 3 in the afternoon.....4 or 5 days of that and i get pissed, put myself through a rapid 3 day detox and grit my teeth through the pain for 4 or 5 days to reset my tolerance to them......if they came up with a pain killer with the same effectiveness but none of the fuzzy thinking i would pay significantly more for it and be damn happy bout it....

When will they start giving the Taliban some of these pills?