I blame fluoride.

I blame fluoride. The timing couldn't be coincidental.

I blame fluoride. The timing couldn't be coincidental.

I blame over - penetration!

You did it now. The kookbrigade will say it was an inside job, bankrolled by the Elders of Zion, international bankers and of course Bush and Cheney.

He was shooting from on top of the Hertz sign. It looks like a small Obama with a rifle up there.

Where's Jim Garrison when we need him?

No way in Hell that Oswald did it (alone).

The physical impossibilities in the Warren Report are staggering.

No way in Hell that Oswald did it (alone).

The physical impossibilities in the Warren Report are staggering.

you could not be more wrong. the film shows the exact opposite.

you could not be more wrong. the film shows the exact opposite.

That's how a conspiracy works. Them boys on the Grassy Knoll they were dead within three hours, buried in the damned desert, unmarked graves out past Terlingua.....


ML

You know that for a fact?

Hell... I still got the shovel.

The definition of "futile": Arguing on the internet with people who know they are right and that it's all a giant government conspiracy run by (pick 1)

1) The mafia
2) The aliens
3) The trilateral commission
4) The world-wide zionist cabal
5) The World-wide zionist cabal of mafioso aliens who serve on the trilateral commission.

Have any of you ever shot an animal and the bullet or animal did something unexpected than the norm? I think its one of those things that can't be explained.

It is what it is!

ML

you could not be more wrong. the film shows the exact opposite.

Have any of you ever shot an animal and the bullet or animal did something unexpected than the norm? I think its one of those things that can't be explained.

It is what it is!

ML

No doubt that shot came from the rear. NONE

This debate will live in infamy...and perpetuity with hardly not one person ever changing their mind. Have fun with that discourse,friends; I'm still battling that GD birth certificate fight and don't have time to tell you the facts on this Kennedy conspiracy.

for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.....the shot came from behind

You have your hands full picking the winner of a college ball game.

Leave the investigation of the President's murder to minds that have more horsepower. LOL.

LPE,Inc.,Fortune 500's top college prognosticator for the years 2006-2009.

He is delusional again.

Too much extenze will do that to a fella.

We should have a side bet this year for those interested and feeling lucky.

What we need is a flashing main-screen icon to indicate when a thread turns from its original theme into more of the same old meaningless mental masturbation.

(1) Unlike Oswald, who failed to qualify on the rifle range in Boot Camp, and who barely qualified "Marksman"-the lowest of three grades-on a later try, I was a trained and combat-experienced Marine sniper. I had spent a year in Vietnam, during which time I had numerous occasions to line up living, breathing human beings in the crosshairs of my precision Unertl scope and squeeze the trigger of my bolt-action Model 70 Winchester and send a .30 caliber match-grade round zipping down range.

Here I was, a professional police officer and writer, looking down at the most famous ambush site in history through the eyes of a sniper. A strange feeling came over me. A feeling of calm, dampening my anger. The trained investigator inside me surfaced and took over my emotions. I began to scrutinize what my senses were absorbing.

First, I analyzed the scene as a sniper. In the time allotted, and in the distance along the street in which the rounds had impacted the target from first report to final shot, it would take a minimum of two people shooting. There was little hope that I alone, even if armed with the precision equipment I had used in Vietnam, would be able duplicate the feat described by the Warren Commission. So if I couldn't, I reasoned, Oswald couldn't.

Unless he had help.

I looked at the engagement angle. It was entirely wrong. The wall of the building in which the windows overlooked Dealey Plaza ran east and west. By looking directly down at the best engagement angle-which was straight out the window facing south-I could see Houston Street. Houston was perpendicular to the wall and ran directly toward my window. This is the street on which the motorcade had approached and would have been my second choice as a zone of engagement. My first choice was directly below the window, at a drastic bend in the street that had to be negotiated by Kennedy's limousine. It would have to slow appreciably, almost to a stop, and when it did, the target would be presented moving at its slowest pace. The last zone of engagement I would pick would be as the limo drove away toward the west-and the Grassy Knoll. Here, from what I could see, three problems arose that would influence my shots. First, the target was moving away at a drastic angle to the right from the window, meaning that I would have to position my body to compete with the wall and a set of vertical water pipes on the left frame of the window to get a shot. This would be extremely difficult for a righthanded shooter. Second, I would have be ready to fire exactly when the target emerged past some tree branches that obscured the kill zone. Finally, I would have to deal with two factors at the same time: the curve of the street, and the high-to-low angle formula-a law of physics Oswald would not have known.

Even if I waited for the target to pass the primary and secondary engagement zones, and for some reason decided to engage instead in the worst possible area, I still had to consider the fact that Oswald made his farthest, and most difficult shot, last. I estimated the range for this shot at between 80 and 90 yards. It was this final shot that, according to the Warren Commission, struck Kennedy's head.

As an experienced sniper, something else bothered me. Any sniper knows that the two most important things to be considered in selecting a position are the fields of fire, and a route of escape. You have to have both. It is of little value to take a shot, then not be able to successfully get away to fight another day. Even if the window was a spot that I would select for a hide, I had doubts about my ability to escape afterwards. According to what little I had read, the elevator was stuck on a floor below at the time in question, and only the stairway could have been used as a means of withdrawal. And there were dozens of people-potential witnesses-below who would be able to identify anyone rushing away from the scene. Not good.

But Oswald was not a trained or experienced military sniper. He was supposed to be little more than some odd-ball with a grudge. And for whatever reason, had decided to buy a rifle and shoot the President of the United States. Or so the Warren Commission would have us believe.


(2) Knoll and the Picket Fence, which I had purposely saved for last. I walked up the slope and around the fence, arriving in a parking lot that was bordered on the northwest by train tracks. I walked the length of the fence, stopping at a spot on the eastern end.

I looked over the fence at Elm Street and froze. This is exactly where I would position myself if I wanted the most accurate shot possible considering the terrain I had explored. It had some drawbacks-it was close to witnesses, and prone to pre-incident discovery-but the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages for a determined assassin. The target vehicle would be approaching instead of moving away, thereby continually decreasing the range; the shot would be almost flat trajectory, making the down-angle formula a mute point; the deflection (right/left angle) would change little until the car passed a freeway sign on the north curbline; and finally, it offered numerous escape route possibilities. Behind me, to the north and west, was a parking lot full of cars, a train yard full of boxcars, and several physical terrain features to use as cover during withdrawal. It was by far the best spot.

Looking almost due east, across the grassy open park-like Plaza, I could see two multi-story office-type buildings approximately the same height as the Depository. The roof tops of either building would be excellent firing positions for a trained rifleman with the proper equipment, and would be the places I would select if I wanted the best possible chance of not being detected in advance. Without going to the roofs of each, I could not determine the accessibility of escape routes. But for firing platforms, they were ideal.

Then, considering the possibility of multiple-snipers (which meant a conspiracy), I had to ask myself how I would position the shooters to cover the kill zone in front of the Grassy Knoll?

My military training once again took over. I would use an area within the Plaza that would afford the best kill zone for either a crossfire or triangulated fire. Simply put, I would position my teams in such a way that their trajectory of fire converged on the most advantageous point to assure a kill. In the military, single snipers are seldom used. Normally, the smallest sniper team consists of two men, a sniper and his spotter/security man. Even in police SWAT teams, a marksman has an observer who is equipped with a spotting scope or binoculars to help pick and identify targets and handle the radio communications.

In this case, I would position at least one team behind the Picket Fence (more if I wanted to secure the rear against intruders), another on one or both of the two office buildings (which I later found to be the Dallas County Records Building and the County Criminal Courts Building), and possibly a team on a building across the street north of the Records Building known at the time as the Dal-Tex building. I would have never put anyone in the School Book Depository with so many locations that were much more advantageous unless I needed diversion. If I did, it would be a good place for red herrings to be observed by witnesses.

refer him to Hawkeye....he is in charge of all Prison Planet whackjob conspiracy stories

Oswald was a patsy.

For all I know, Garrison could be dead now.

Steve_NO could probably give us an update on Jim Garrison.

Garrison left the DA job to become a 4th Circuit judge...stayed there until his death about twenty years ago. he was batshit crazy and a bad drunk in his later days.

...the international bankers had him whacked because he knew too much

Sean,
After just watching the Zapruder footage enough times to make me sick to my stomach, I now think the shot could have come from the rear. Previously, I didn't. IMO the head falling to the rear, and the brain matter seeming to blow rearward also, may have come from the vehicle's forward movement and the fact they were traveling in an open car.

NONE of the rock chucks, prairie dogs or ground squirrels I've shot were traveling in the back seat of a moving convertible. Until I can arrange that, I'm no longer convinced of what I think I'm seeing. I'm also not weighing in on all the other evidence, or even saying that Oswald actually made the head shot. I seriously doubt he was running solo.

"Oswald did not do it."

Sean,
After just watching the Zapruder footage enough times to make me sick to my stomach, I now think the shot could have come from the rear. Previously, I didn't. IMO the head falling to the rear, and the brain matter seeming to blow rearward also, may have come from the vehicle's forward movement and the fact they were traveling in an open car.

NONE of the rock chucks, prairie dogs or ground squirrels I've shot were traveling in the back seat of a moving convertible. Until I can arrange that, I'm no longer convinced of what I think I'm seeing. I'm also not weighing in on all the other evidence, or even saying that Oswald actually made the head shot. I seriously doubt he was running solo.

Well no [bleep]? I admire your honesty.

refer him to Hawkeye....he is in charge of all Prison Planet whackjob conspiracy stories

Lord Have Mercy . . .

BMT, VA, and Bart all agreeing at the same time, on the same thread.

It is a terrible OMEN.



BMT

No Ken,

He was sent to the island of misfit toys.

Figured you may have seen him on one of your hunts there.

As just a general comment - the government has a hell of a time keeping real secrets - like the names of spies and submarine sonar software. How the heck would they keep such a conspiracy a secret?

No doubt that shot came from the rear. NONE

My cousin's husband spent about forty years with the Dallas PD and was outside the basement when Ruby shot Oswald. Very strange.

A friend of my Dad's taken his two girls over to see Oswald's grave. Lee Harvey's mom was out there decorating it and shook her fist at them as they drove by.

Anybody read that book or heard of it?

(a) A lone whackjob that got lucky.

(b) A giant conspiracy between the gov't and a parties unknown that killed the president using multiple people, tampered with evidence, manipulate multiple local, state and federal investigative bodies, killed others thta were involved, destroyed all physical evidence of said conspiracy and then everyone involved stayed quiet about it for 45+ years.

I'll go with (a)

I don't think you even believe your own post. You jump to the conclusion that the conspiracy had to be a giant one? A few people could give orders that would be followed to the letter by people who had no idea why they were doing what they were doing and then actually carried out by persons who didn't even know who initially gave the orders. You get used to it in the military and the government service is the same way because if you don't you at least are never promoted and could be fired. Then, even though you, as a worker bee, basically know nothing, you are already sworn to secrecy by agreements you have signed and orders you are given. A huge number of people could be unknowingly involved with only a few at the very top knowing the whole story. It's all about orders.

(a) A lone whackjob that got lucky.

(b) A giant conspiracy between the gov't and a parties unknown that killed the president using multiple people, tampered with evidence, manipulate multiple local, state and federal investigative bodies, killed others thta were involved, destroyed all physical evidence of said conspiracy and then everyone involved stayed quiet about it for 45+ years.

I'll go with (a)

Mr. Younger done gone and got hisself bit by a moonbat!!

three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

a conspiracy of the magnitude required for a government sponsored whacking of a president, setting up a loser to take the fall, whacking him, getting the whacker to keep his mouth shut, and then subborning the entire Warren Commission and its staff into the deal....and after almost fifty years nobody has blown what would be the biggest story and news scoop in history...... is so far fetched and so impossible that it's hard to believe people are still arguing about it.

After 20 years in the military and another dozen working in a business where secrets are taken very very very seriously I have never found a case where "worker bees" do what thye are told without thinking nor have I ever found a case where a secret held by more than one person stays that way. IMO, having done this my entire adult life I still believe (a) is the answer.

Everybody knows Oswald didn't kill him or didn't do it on his own.
==================

Actually, that is not accurate,at all.

- Who ordered the assassination?

- For which reason or reasons?

three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

a conspiracy of the magnitude required for a government sponsored whacking of a president, setting up a loser to take the fall, whacking him, getting the whacker to keep his mouth shut, and then subborning the entire Warren Commission and its staff into the deal....and after almost fifty years nobody has blown what would be the biggest story and news scoop in history...... is so far fetched and so impossible that it's hard to believe people are still arguing about it.

(a) A lone whackjob that got lucky.

(b) A giant conspiracy between the gov't and a parties unknown that killed the president using multiple people, tampered with evidence, manipulate multiple local, state and federal investigative bodies, killed others thta were involved, destroyed all physical evidence of said conspiracy and then everyone involved stayed quiet about it for 45+ years.

I'll go with (a)

(a) A lone whackjob that got lucky.

(b) A giant conspiracy between the gov't and a parties unknown that killed the president using multiple people, tampered with evidence, manipulate multiple local, state and federal investigative bodies, killed others thta were involved, destroyed all physical evidence of said conspiracy and then everyone involved stayed quiet about it for 45+ years.

I'll go with (a)

Hawkeye, I would argue that the Holocaust was a poorly kept secret in Germany even during the war. Sure the population, especially in areas without concentration camps were largely ignorant of it, but that was with a war going on and TOTAL control of what little media there was. However, I'm sure that tens of thousands of Germans were aware with many far too afraid to say boo about it. You only ran your mouth in Germany in 1943 if you wanted to end up absent from work the next...lifetime.

Those two paradigms are what make Germany different. We had an open media in the 1960's and we had opposing political parties. You just can't keep controversial secrets in the U.S. of that scale because everyone is looking to make a name for themself or a deal. Hell, if Nixon couldn't keep his own cabinet quiet, how do you think Johnson could control 10x as many people?

*** You are ignoring this user ***

you people watch too many bad CIA movies.....professional shooters don't do jobs where they will obviously be snuffed themselves the minute they pull the trigger. and you just create an endless loop of shooting the shooters

No endless loop, Steve. The first shooters were patsies (perhaps even imports). Those who eliminated them were likely legit black ops types who were under the impression they were serving some very patriotic function in offing these people, having no idea they had anything to do with the Kennedy assassination, and are likely alive and well today. End of loop.

That's incredibly naive. I'm not saying they were following orders that were even questionable. You go to point A and tell person B that he can't be saying such-and-such. You trust your boss, the Colonel, whomever. It's done. The right hand never knows what the left is doing. I'm not talking a bunch of nefarious crap, but just day-to-day business. None of this is a stretch at all. The party-line is the story that's completely unbelievable.

Well, you showed me. I guess my real world experience just isn't relevent.

Here's an interesting tidbit. The number one FOIA request at NSA is not about significant historical events or the Church hearings or Veona but about UFO's.

[/quote]But, you see, that's my point. You say "at that scale." What scale? There could have been only very few who were actually directing the conspiracy and knew what it was about. The rest were merely following orders, and those directly involved (i.e., the shooters themselves) were likely dead and buried before sunset. Those who handled that job had no idea why they were taking them out.

so those "legit black ops types" killed some people in Dallas on November 22, 1963 and never suspected they were involved in a coverup of a presidential assassination? get real.

what about all the other people who had to participate in evidence fabrication and cover up? did they all get whacked too, by these mysterious black ops types? who thought they were doing something patritotic? and never asked themselves why am I whacking a Dallas police officer, or a coroner, or whoever?

not to mention the problem of how do you get thousands of people with nothing to gain to implicate themselves in a murder conspiracy.


this stuff works a lot better in the movies where everyone agrees to suspend disbelief and go with the story.

in the real world, not so much.

Well, you showed me. I guess my real world experience just isn't relevent.

Here's an interesting tidbit. The number one FOIA request at NSA is not about significant historical events or the Church hearings or Veona but about UFO's.

I agree with Bob that not many, if any, will change their mind about it. I tend to think the shot was from the front and right and Oswalt, if even involved, had help.

But it is funny how some people, from both sides, state with 100% certainty, without doubt, no questions asked, their opinion as fact.

We'll never know the truth.

just following out the logic trail.....you say the plot was to hire foreign dumbasses as shooters....

they'd have to be pretty severely retarded foreigners not to recognize the fact that they're being hired to kill the president of the United States and cannot be allowed to collect their money and live, but we'll put that aside for now.

OK, foreign dumbass shooters (how many? two ? three?) get whacked in their turn by patriotic civil servants who fail to connect the dots and don't realize they're participating in an assassination conspiracy and committing murder in support of it.

But you can't stop there.....evidence must be manufactured, tampered with or destroyed as the case may be to protect the plot.

Officer Tippet has to be killed. Ruby recruited and somehow kept silent for years in prison.

Congress, Justice Dept, and the Warren Commission and all their staffs brought into the coverup....how many people do you have to kill because they won't play ball? and why on earth do people with nothing to gain from any of this not go straight to the FBI, or failing that....since they're all in on it too they won't do anything, right?..the entire FBI is part of the conspiracy......well, phones still work and how come none of the thousands of people who are now implicated drops a dime to the New York Times or the Washington Post?

I mean, it's really too absurd to give any credence to such nonsense. movies can ignore loose ends, but in reality they make such conspiracies impossible to organize and protect.

first, TV show plots do get leaked, but that's not really relevant, since the people in the know there usually all have some financial interest in confidentiality.....and some financial risk it they break that obligation.


but it is a little silly to equate the level of public interest in who is going to die on some TV show to the biggest story of the century, a plot necessarily involving thousands of people, and a press corps slobbering to find a villain and a cover up, not to mention the government organs charged with investigating....your plot would require that there are no honest people in the FBI or Justice dept to blow the whistle....only take one. ditto the WC and its staff.

secrets don't keep in Washington.

you can't have it both ways.....a small conspiracy would be blown by an honest investigation. a big one is impossible to maintain security on.


you have to involve and subvert or eliminate people at Dallas PD, coroner, Dallas DA, federal agencies and the Warren commission.....or you get caught in their investigation.

When Ruby nailed Oswald , that one event made certain that otherwise sane persons - such as myself - would never believe that Oswald acted alone .

Out of curiousity, how long did it take for Watergate to break?

I don't know anything about international banks, rouge CIA agents, fluoride salesmen, or martians being involved, but I don't think Oswald executed those shots under those circumstances. It wouldn't take much of a conspiracy to have one more shooter involved. Maybe just another oddball like Oswald.

The reason the focused on Oswald so quickly was because it was so obvious.

It was obvious that the shots came from the schoolbook depository. There were many witnesses DIRECTLY beneath the window who heard the shots. There were three witnesses in the building on the floor below who not only heard the shots, but actually heard the brass casings hitting the the thin plywood floor above their heads between the shots. Several of the witnesses on the ground actually saw the gunman and gave a description of him.

Later, when all the employees of the schoolbook depository were gathered, there was only one missing. Guess who? Lee Harvey Oswald, of course.

Almost at the same moment as officers were being told to go out and see if Oswald was home so they could talk to him, there were reports that a police officer had been shot in the area. No one had any idea that they were connected but as every available officer was sent to the area, the numerous witnesses to that shooting gave them descriptions and told them the man was in the Texas Theatre. They quickly apprehended him looking for nothing more than a cop killer at this point.

Once the figured out who they had in custody, it was easy to draw the lines.

What happened to your old Cassatojoe account?

The reason the focused on Oswald so quickly was because it was so obvious.

It was obvious that the shots came from the schoolbook depository. There were many witnesses DIRECTLY beneath the window who heard the shots. There were three witnesses in the building on the floor below who not only heard the shots, but actually heard the brass casings hitting the the thin plywood floor above their heads between the shots. Several of the witnesses on the ground actually saw the gunman and gave a description of him.

Later, when all the employees of the schoolbook depository were gathered, there was only one missing. Guess who? Lee Harvey Oswald, of course.

Almost at the same moment as officers were being told to go out and see if Oswald was home so they could talk to him, there were reports that a police officer had been shot in the area. No one had any idea that they were connected but as every available officer was sent to the area, the numerous witnesses to that shooting gave them descriptions and told them the man was in the Texas Theatre. They quickly apprehended him looking for nothing more than a cop killer at this point.

Once the figured out who they had in custody, it was easy to draw the lines.

That is what happens when you somehow get logged out and the only way to get on this board if you have long ago forgotten the password is to have an email sent to an email account that you long ago quit using and is no longer in existence.

That documentary was on the History Channel.

just following out the logic trail.....you say the plot was to hire foreign dumbasses as shooters....they'd have to be pretty severely retarded foreigners not to recognize the fact that they're being hired to kill the president of the United States and cannot be allowed to collect their money and live, but we'll put that aside for now.

OK, foreign dumbass shooters (how many? two ? three?) get whacked in their turn by patriotic civil servants who fail to connect the dots and don't realize they're participating in an assassination conspiracy and committing murder in support of it.

But you can't stop there.....evidence must be manufactured, tampered with or destroyed as the case may be to protect the plot.

Officer Tippet has to be killed. Ruby recruited and somehow kept silent for years in prison.

Congress, Justice Dept, and the Warren Commission and all their staffs brought into the coverup....how many people do you have to kill because they won't play ball? and why on earth do people with nothing to gain from any of this not go straight to the FBI, or failing that....since they're all in on it too they won't do anything, right?..the entire FBI is part of the conspiracy......well, phones still work and how come none of the thousands of people who are now implicated drops a dime to the New York Times or the Washington Post?

I mean, it's really too absurd to give any credence to such nonsense. movies can ignore loose ends, but in reality they make such conspiracies impossible to organize and protect.

So, if conspiracies in corruption in high places are so unlikely as to be practically speaking impossible to get away with, what were the Founding Fathers and the Framers of our Constitution so worried about? Why so many tight restrictions on the national government? Why so much public accountability? Why divide powers? Why all the checks and balances? Why so few and defined powers? What were they concerned about?

Does no one wish to take a shot at this?

Does no one wish to take a shot at this?

Frankly, no.

[The only reason Kennedy-assassination, flouride, UFO, massive Zionist,Trilateral Commission, moonbat, 9/11 conspiracists still exist is, IMHO, because untreated Attention Deficit Disorder and illiteracy are so rampant in Americaon the Campfire today. People get their "information" from snippets of TV and internet hokum and because they lack the patience or reading skills to do any actual research, become self-proclaimed "skeptics" when in reality all they are is misinformed, or willfully ignorant at best.

I wish the FF's had more checks and balances in place for wingnuts!!

The only reason Kennedy-assassination conspiracists still exist is, IMHO, because untreated Attention Deficit Disorder and illiteracy are so rampant in America today. People get their "information" from snippets of TV and internet hokum and because they lack the patience or reading skills to do any actual research, become self-proclaimed "skeptics" when in reality all they are is misinformed, or willfully ignorant at best.

Anyone who really cares about the truth of the Kennedy assassination, as opposed to just being a tinfoil hat chit-disturber, needs to read Posner's book in full.

For instance, much has been made about the fact that the car didn't have the plexiglass top on it. Who made that decision? Well, JFK himself made that decision and instructed the secret service to take it off after they had already put it on. Does that mean JFK himself was in on the conspiracy?

Branding those who disagree with you on something as loonies is a tactic usually employed by the left wing crazies

they were worried about what the Brits call "interest". you will not find support for your conspiracy theories in the mere fact that the founders supported limited government and division of powers.

Out of curiousity, how long did it take for Watergate to break?

about two years from break in to Nixon's resignation....good example of how a much smaller, less elaborate conspiracy than the one imagined by the Kennedy plot afficianados couldn't survive more than a few months before it was blown and its conspirators were either cooperating witnesses, headed for jail, or resigned in disgrace.

A little help Doc to make it more inclusive.

I understand your point.

I am simply suspicious of the layers upon layers of "on-time-only" occurrences. (Jack Ruby Killing Oswald, the bullet laying on the gurney, the magic bullet, etc.)

The only thing that makes sense is Oswald. He is a classic president shooting loon.

Everything else is goofy as heck--including the horrid investigation and the Warren report. I consider the entire spectacle to be the most screwed up murder investigation I have ever read.

The hundreds of "Rock Solid" death penalty convictions that have been overturned by DNA evidence does not help relieve my skepticism.

Sometimes, it ain't a vast conspiracy.

Sometimes, people simply screw up.

BMT

If Oswald acted alone, then how or why the following? Just a few things to make you go,,,hmmmm and think about.



Item.......Why was the President`s body hurried out of Dallas? Texas law specifically dictated at that time, that an autopsy be performed in Dallas the place of the crime. Had the body remained in Dallas for a "PROPER" autopsy, conducted by highly "TRAINED" forensic pathologists, the number of shots and from which direction they came from would have been eventually solved, confirming either a lone assassin or confirming more than one assassin meaning a conspiracy.

but where's the fun in that? this is a lot more exciting than fluoride conspiracies.

Item.......The testimonies of all 7 ER attending doctors and other trained medical experts at Parkland hospital in Dallas (incl Doctors McClelland, Peters, Jones, Ward, Crenshaw, attending nurse Bell and more), all confirmed an entrance wound in the throat area near the atoms apple AND a very large gaping hole (a confirmed by them exit wound) to the right rear portion of the President`s head in the occipital area of the skull. What they saw at Parkland, directly contradicted the Warren Commission`s final report....Sorry! An entrance wound to the back portion of a skull, does not create a gaping hole est to be approx 2 3/4" wide as was seen at Parkland.

If nothing else, the discussion of JFK's death is a good reminder of of how many goof-balls we among us.

This is all BS...I heard Kennedy died fairly recently from chronic alcohol poisoning.

The last straw --destroying my belief in the frontal headshot -- was actually looking at the Zapruder film in detail and in slow motion. I taped a JFK assassination special aired in the early 80's (I believe it was the "Trial of Lee Harvey Oswald") and after watching the sequence around Z313 over and over, could easily see that the president's head burst open to the front and right. It was also very clear (gruesomely) that a large flap of JFK's scalp hung down from the large exit wound. When watched in slow motion, it was clear that the shot hit and exited, the president's head moved forward, and then (and only then), did his head and body whip back to the rear. I came to believe the Spitz was correct, that the shot came from the rear, and that there was no exit wound visible (in the Zapruder film) in the rear of JFK's head. I came to believe that the Parkland doctors were essentially fooled by the fact that tissue pooled at the back of JFK's head (he was laying on his back) and made it look like a lot of blood was present there. Also, Jackie Kennedy closed up the large flap of bone and scalp at the exit wound and JFK's thick hair hid the massive wound from those doctors. The bottom line was that the Zapruder film showed exactly what happened at the moment of the fatal shot.

The "Oswald acting alone" group are correct, in that there was an exit wound (the explosion as seen) exiting the right temple area, AND the conspiracy buffs are also correct, as a second shot fired at the same instant from the right front, entered the same area blasting out the right rear portion of the president`s head.

If only the body had remained in Dallas and had gotten a proper autopsy!!!........That itself was the ,,,"best evidence",,, to solve the crime.

Those that believe or conclude that Oswald acted alone, then their conclusions directly conflict with what many doctors and medical personel saw at Parkland hospital.

I can accept the arguments supporting the position that the shots came from behind, but how do Locke and Posner explain Oswald's outstanding marksmanship under conditions of extreme stress?

I can accept the arguments supporting the position that the shots came from behind, but how do Locke and Posner explain Oswald's outstanding marksmanship under conditions of extreme stress?

THE REAL HAWKEYE - "You folks who are suggesting that like-minded conspirators cannot keep secrets, how do you explain the fact that even TV series creators, and all involved in their production, have no difficulty doing so. An entire season is typically filmed a year in advance, and despite the fact that money could be made by individuals involved revealing who does what in the upcoming season, these secrets are kept pretty well, and we're talking popular entertainment, ..."

Nope, a shot from the Grassy Knoll would have knocked out the LEFT REAR of Kennedy's head.

Isaac,

Sounds like a good explanation by someone who never fired multiple shots in a short period of time from a cheap bolt action rifle at a moving target the size of a head at 88 yards. Granted it was only something I saw on TV, but a world class marksman made the shots in a recreation under conditions of minimum stress. He admitted that someone without his training would find it very difficult. Try making an "easy" five foot put when you have a $100 bet on the line. Most folks don't get better at something when placed in the most stressful situation they have ever encountered.

Rick

I can accept the arguments supporting the position that the shots came from behind, but how do Locke and Posner explain Oswald's outstanding marksmanship under conditions of extreme stress?

Why would shooting the president be any more stressful for a nut like Oswald be any different than the stress felt by the Average Joe when he shoots the biggest whitetail he has ever seen? Honestly, I know a few people who literally pissed their pants they were so excited, yet they executed harder shots than the one Oswald did.

It has never been firmly established where exactly a grassy knoll shooter might have been firing from, only hypothesized through the Mary Moorman still photos. However, a shooter further down west on Elm St towards the overpass, but still located behind the stockade fence, would have a decreased shot angle and that imo would be very plausible.

Shooting POTUS just like shooting deer. Let me think about that for a minute.



Nope, not buying it. Sorry

Shooting POTUS just like shooting deer. Let me think about that for a minute.



Nope, not buying it. Sorry

Shooting POTUS just like shooting deer. Let me think about that for a minute.



Nope, not buying it. Sorry

I've watched that video at least 100 times since this thread started and it creeps me out even more than the first and last time I watched it. What must have ensued in that car after. Shock, fear, panic, delusion--likely every emotion known.

What a day that must have been.

...but I do believe it's entirely possible that people came together after to do what they thought was best for the country.

He hit the head once out of 3 attempts. You play with that fact as you wish.

I don't think the majority of America gave a damn, as long as it wasn't an act of war. He was the most widely hated president ever until a couple years ago.

If the head was his target,he missed 3 times!!

Doctors Porto and Williams , both nuerologists who worked on him at Parkland never took a stance on bullet direction , number of shots , etc .They said the autopsy photos taken at Bethesda did not corelate with what they worked on in Dallas .

9.2.6 The third (head) shot had to have come from the front.

False. From a forensics point of view, the direction of the head shot is unambiguous. 1) A bullet causes the skull to "dish," i.e. a beveled portion of bone will be knocked out away from the direction of the bullet, like the dishing caused by a bullet going through a pane of glass. Both
the dishing at the back of JFK's skull and at the right-front reveal a shot from behind. 2) All the bullet fragments in JFK's skull were right of the centerline, precluding a shot from the right front (GK). 3) There was no exit wound on the left of JFK's skull.

Considering physical forces alone, a bullet lacks the momentum to violently push a human body, such as we see in movies. The force is large, but the time over which it is exerted is too short.

==============

Have you even read the testimony and findings of all four or five of the expertys above who were hired specifically to perform and then report upon the autopsy?


9.3.1 The Dallas doctors differed with the autopsists.

True at the time. The Dallas doctors spent twenty minutes laboring in
vain to save the President's life. The President's wounds were covered
with blood. They never turned JFK over. Consequently, some of their
initial descriptions of the wounds differed from the official determina-
tion of the autopsy. However, upon review most of the Dallas doctors
agree with the findings of the autopsy.

I meant he hit the head one time as you well know I stated in my first post. The one you originally replied to, remember??

If you ever try a case in Mississippi , you might want to retain local counsel !.

I'm keeping an open mind and it is doubtful that at this late date any evidence will be forthcoming to establish that Oswald had no help .

OTOH , with Fat Ted gone and Fidel barely holding on , the climate could well change over the next few years be more favorable to further disclosures .

Reminds me of what the fictional gun slinger English Bob said about the shooting of Abe Lincoln. "If you were to try to assassination a king, sir, the... how shall I say it? The aura of royalty would cause you to miss. But, the president...[chuckles] I mean, why not shoot the president?"

I'm impressed by all the forensic investigators and forensic pathologists we have on this board.

.........Back in the 80s, I saw interviews with several of the Dallas doctors, as well as an interview given by Paul Kelly O`Connor (now deceased), who was one of the X ray techs on duty that night at Bethesda. They all state, that there was a large exit wound at the right rear part of the skull and not a wound of entry.

Can someone please explain to me how a wound of entry, created by a 160 gr round nosed bullet fired from a 6.5mm Carcano, can create an entry hole to the skull of around 2 3/4" in diameter???

It doesn`t take a forensic investigator or a foresnic pathologist, of which I`m certainly not either, to figure that out, that bullet entry wounds are much smaller and create far less damage than are bullet exit wounds which are much larger and create far more damage.

English Bob was real amusing until Little Bill kicked the schitt out if him.

Little Bill got the jump on him. In a fair shootout, who knows what would have happened.

Assasination is murder. But not every murder is an assasination.

I've shot a deer right in the sternumn before, took about a 1.5 inch chunk of bone out upon entry.
You can't apply logic to what a crazy person did. Oswald did it himself. Because this doesn't make sense to most sane people, they automatically think he had to have had help.

R.

The guy who wrote the scene and director know what would have happened...

That's the question then isn't it - why not?

....................A 1.5" chunk of bone out of a deer`s sternum upon entry, may not equate exactly same compared with a human skull. Using a round nosed bullet on that deer or pointed spitzer?

If there was no large rear wound of exit from the rear of the skull, then I`d agree with you. The liklihood of there being only a lone shooter from the rear would then be very high.

I think he means when justified it's not murder, such as if the attempts on Hitler's life were successful, that would be an assassination, but not a murder.

That's the question then isn't it - why not?

This is a hog I shot this morning . Is the side nearest the camera the exit or entrance wound ?

============

There is zero evidence to suggest he did have help. Nothing you or big squeeze are saying isn't supported by any proof or link you've provided. You simply say "stuff" and expect it warrants some credibility.

And curdog.....I really don't need you telling me whether or not forensic expert testimony is given less weight than eyewitness testimony,OK? Way out of your bailiwick,my boy!!

My remark was not directed at you bigsqueeze. It was "quick reply" and you were right above me.

The comment stands in regard to this thread. I'll bet a Pepsi no one's thinking gets changed.

Shoot a large glass jar full of water with a 6.5mm bullet at 100 yards. You're going to find glass everywhere, including the direction the bullet came from.

R.

.............The structure of glass, is not the same as a human skull. Firing a bullet into a glass filled with water, is not the same as a human skull filled with brain. Glass will have a greater tendancy to shatter into hundreds of pieces rather than a human skull.

you've never found blood or blowback body parts on the shooter's side of a dead deer? I have.

That ain't my quote dude.

BMT

No one except those with predisposed fantasy seriously argue against the unequivocal forensic evidence that the bullets entered the President's body from the rear.

And, again, you have shown nothing by way of any factual evidence or proof to support your assertions and your opinion just isn't going to cut it.

� Understand , I didn't get any of this from google so it may be wrong . �

JFK forbade the media to refer to him as "Jack."

Eisenhower remarked "As long as I live, I'll answer to 'Ike.'"

As long as I live, I'll be � to anybody � jus' plain ol' "Ken."

edited to add �

( � except to certain lovely Honorary Daughters who hug me and call me "Uncle Ken.")

� certain lovely Honorary Daughters � preteens to middle 'ties � who hug me and call me "Uncle Ken."