Sorry, But There Can't Be
'Peace In The Middle East'

By LARRY ELDER
Posted 07/24/2014 06:06 PM ET

Secretary of State John Kerry is the latest to think the power
of his personal diplomacy can bring "peace to the Middle East."
But, once again, when one side publicly calls for the
destruction of the other, what is there to discuss?

Hamas, designated a foreign terrorist organization by the U.S.,
has governed the Palestinian territory of Gaza since they
defeated rival Fatah, the group that governs the West Bank.

Hamas, along with Hezbollah, Palestine Islamic Jihad, the
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command
, Iraqi militant Shiite groups and other terror organizations,
is funded in part by Iran, whose leaders routinely call for the
destruction of the "fictitious" state of Israel.

Hamas' covenant calls for the destruction of Israel. The
preamble reads: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist
until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others
before it."

Article 3 describes the duty of all Muslims: "Fear Allah
and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors."

Article 7 states: "The day of judgment will not come
about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews
will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will
cry out: 'O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me; come and
kill him.'"

Article 11 clarifies their belief that "the land of
Palestine is an Islamic waif (holy possession) consecrated for
future Muslim generations until judgment day. No one can
renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it."

Article 13 flatly states: "Palestine is an Islamic land.
... Since this is the case, the liberation of Palestine is an
individual duty for every Muslim wherever he may be."

It also says, "There is no solution for the Palestinian problem
except by jihad."

Goal: Destroy Israel

Any doubt about how committed Hamas is to Israel's destruction?

In 2006, a mother of six sons successfully ran for parliament in
Gaza under the Hamas party, billed as the "mother of the
struggle."

Three of Mariam Farahat's sons died in the so-called intifada,
or resistance against Israel. How pained is she over the loss
of her sons?

A Hamas recruitment video features Farahat showing her 17-year-
old son how to kill Israelis and telling him not to come back.
Mission accomplished. In 2002, that son murdered five Jewish students.

Another son was killed when the Israeli air force blew up his
vehicle, which was carrying Qassam rockets. Farahat celebrated
his death: "I am so proud. I wish I had more sons to offer."

How far Israel is willing to go for peace was demonstrated in
2000. During the waning months of the Clinton administration,
the president sought to finally achieve "peace in the Middle
East."

The prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak, was perhaps the most
dovish PM in the history of Israel.

Bill Clinton, through his envoy Dennis Ross, pushed the two
sides into what even cynical observers called a crucial
breakthrough.

Barak offered the following: Israel would withdraw completely
from Gaza, surrender almost all of the West Bank and give the
Palestinians most of Arab East Jerusalem, which would be their
new capital.

Concessions Forever

Israel agreed to dismantle Jewish settlements to achieve those
objectives and would let a certain number of Palestinians
"return" to Israel, with additional compensation for
Palestinians not allowed to return.

In exchange, Yasser Arafat, the head of the Palestine Liberation
Organization, had to do one thing � renounce violence against
Israel and accept its right to exist as a Jewish state.

Arafat walked away and thus began the second intifada, a burst
of violence that left over 1,000 Israelis dead by 2005.

The late Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir famously said,
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children
more than they hate us." How deep is the hate?

In 1986, Nizar al-Hindawi, a Jordanian, and his pregnant Irish-
Catholic girlfriend made arrangements for marriage. They
discussed plans for an immediate flight from London's Heathrow
Airport to Tel Aviv, Israel, followed by a trip to Jordan for
the marriage ceremony and a honeymoon.

But Hindawi booked a separate flight for his pregnant fiancee,
explaining to her that � oops! � his employer had already paid
for him to travel to Israel on a later flight. He bought her a
ticket to Israel on El Al, giving her a wheeled suitcase to
use.

An alert Heathrow Airport El Al screening agent, suspicious of
an unmarried, visibly pregnant Irish woman traveling alone to
Israel for a vacation during Passover, ordered her luggage
searched.

Security discovered a false bottom in the suitcase � clearly
unknown to the pregnant girl � underneath which lay 3-1/2
pounds of the same type of plastic explosive later used to blow
up a Pan Am plane over Lockerbie, Scotland.

Prime Minister Meir also said this: "When peace comes we will
perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our
sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having
forced us to kill their sons."

TRH and a couple of his bum-buddies will be along to explain why your post is not just wrong, but libellous, and anti-God or something like that.

Peace and middle east, never going to happen. As long as more than 1 human exists in the ME, there will be war.

Short answer to the OP title........never.

War is hell. Unfortunately love always loses to hate. Making evil people room temperature is the duty of the righteous.


Terry

Right after World War Three (the holy war) when all Muslims are eliminated!

I think you are on to something here.

Umm...really, you want that?

for all I know, somebody over there is trying to establish the Fourth Reich, the Return of the Caliphate, or the re-building of the Temple.

surely, its one of those things, or something similar?

On the other hand most of them could just be trying to survive in a [bleep] full of religious nuts.

Israel doesn't want peace - they want full control.

That is never going to happen when you oppress a people.

Of all the people to understand that, it should be the Jews first and foremost.

Israel has had all the control they could possibly want and haven't used it...time for the Palestinians to take control of their own Governing bodies and be serious about peace.

Looks like the world does not want peace in the Middle East. What is needed, is for every one to butt out, and let the Pals and the Jews just go at it.
Kinda like a steel cage match.

In the End Times.

This holy war has been going on long before Christ's time and will continue until either Christians or Muslims are eliminated.

The trouble with western cultures is that they don't recognize this as a holy war and keep trying political answers that won't work.

We should have done that prior to WWII.

you don't get peace thru military action. Something rings hollow about the only nuclear power in the region saying that if they don't fight they will be wiped out.

The Western Governments do understand, but try to maintain the status quo as the moment the Jews wipe the Palestinians out the rest of the Islamic world will rally and attack.

And the moment the Jews are attacked in force and have nowhere to go they will go nuclear.

And then it is all over red rover.

After seven of the worst, tumultuous years imaginable, there will be a 1000 years of peace. Of course by the end of those seven years of great tribulation, the Muslims will figure out Muhammad was a crazy false prophet, and the Jews will figure out that Jesus of Nazareth really was and is the promised Jewish Messiah.

I understand that the Pakie bastards have nuclear weapons...and I am betting that oil dollars have purchased a few as well.

We don't really get told everything.

"We don't really get told everything."

Especially with a pro Israel media.

And I have to tell you that a sand flea named Abdul with a nuke under his arm is not my idea of a bedtime story.

ol Michio Kaku (who?) suggests that we humans will not advance any further as a species because we will fail in our attempts to manage the nuclear realities.

we may have to be sent back to the re-design shop, and get an upgraded design?

[bleep] mate...WE don't even get told everything in our own towns by our own newspaper.

Get used to it.

I've been around since every POTUS from Roosevelt to present time and all of 'em have 'carped' about peace in the ME and it's all been BS galore! It ain't gonna happen! But yet....those that will be candidates for POTUS will be hitting on the same subject when in fact....they know it's all BS!!

Right after Hell freezes over.

OrangeOkie: Certainly not in my lifetime - I would guess in another 100 to 200 years one side or the other will eradicate the other!
Sad that.
How about you OrangeOkie whats YOUR answer to YOUR posted question?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

There will only be peace there when the interlopers stop imposing on the locals an apartheid state and go back to their nations of origin.

They've been fighting each other for thousands of years; predating Christianity, Judaism, and Islam - what in the Hell makes us think that they'd stop now?

Now explain how it's God's will, yeah, explain how it's God's will!

[bleep].

Heck, I have absolutely no expectation of it ever stopping, I just don't want it boiling over on me and mine.

Not in my life time .... and maybe never

when all Muslims are dead and buried

Israel doesn't want peace because they enjoy fleecing American taxpayers out of billions every year. Gotta keep that turmoil a churnin'.

Cash cow.

There is a price for peace

War is cheaper

Here's a vid for all the duped Christian Zionists on the board. This is what they show to kids in Israhell.

5/25/11
If Palestine were to lay down their guns tomorrow, there would be no war.
If Israel were to lay down theirs, there would be no Israel - Benjamin Netanyahu

We know this, now try selling it to the [bleep] I replied to.

the Palestinians think that their land was stolen from them by the new Jewish arrivals with the backing of England, and the countries that were exporting their Jewish population.

in short, the Palestinians were robbed of their homeland. how to fix it? no one knows, nor has a clue.

Nada, Nope, Not Going to Happen!!!!

The Muzzies have been fighting among theirselves from the beginning of time nothing is going to happen to change their mentality now nor anytime in the future.

Hope that never happens as it states in the Bible there will be three great wars and at the end of WWIII life as we know it will no longer be here.

I don't know where it is written in the Bible, but I've heard this statement from my mother and others during my lifetime.

Not "in", after.

When Jesus sets up his millennial Kingdom, there will be peace. Even then, at the end there will be an uprising but it will be quelled and peace will return forever.

I CANNOT FIX STUPID

that phrase just affirms that Israel has no interest in peace, just maintaining their way of life.

lol...lol

Oh, how do you work that out...and please don't suggest they give up their arms as I am damn sure America won't be giving up any arms anytime soon...and I would not expect either to do so.

Whilst I have no great attachment to Israel...I am less inclined toward the Palestinian lot.

It will come in the 7th Earth Age. We're presently in # 6, the 1st 5 were completed in the OT.

Until then, It'll be the SHTF and will continually ratchet up.

QED

no, but expansion, settlements, limiting access and movement of Palestinians, water rights, economic incentives =- all are leveraging points

of course its easier to just respond with a lol...lol like a mouth breather when someone suggests otherwise

When WAS there ever peace there? That will answer the question.

I am guessing you missed the parts about Arafat walking away from pretty much all they could want...or the part about the Hamas dills firing rockets into Israel.


The whole shebang falls squarely into the palestinian's court, and they will piss it away as they always do.

There was peace there prior to Zionist treachery. Jews made up about ten percent of the population in Palestine, and nearly half the population in the city of Jerusalem, and there was no great trouble between Muslims and Jews till the Zionist terrorists arrived after WWII.

if we were serious about peace in the Middle East, we would opt to impose it.

oh wait....we can't even control our own Southern Borderlines.

Let me guess, a Jew screwed you out of a deal.

The four favorite muzzie pastimes in order of priority are:

- Killing Christian and Jewish foreign invaders
- Killing Foreign Invaders
- Killing indigenous Christians and Jewish civilians
- Killing each other

Now that the foreign invaders have left Iraq, and all the indigenous Christians and Jews have left or are dead, the Sunnis and Shias are running around killing each other and blowing up each other's mosques and shrines, the latest being the tomb of Jonah.

In other words, left to their own devices, (edit - and absent an iron-fisted dictator to keep them under control, ala Saddam Hussein) they are now bombing themselves back into the stone age

no I didn't miss it.

I don't believe Arafat served the interest of his people - something we can relate to here in the states now, and I don't propose knowing what it takes for peace to exist, but I do know you can't oppress people and expect them to bargain as an equal seat at the table, nor can you be backed by the world's superpower and earn respect for your position of power in the region.


If I started - I would look for Jerusalem to be designated as an international city like it was proposed in 1948. That would require both Israel and Palestine to co-exist and have free access to their religious sites within the city.

this is Dr. Michio Kaku's concern about the survival of the entire human race. he is concerned we will not advance sufficiently fast enough to deal with the power of nuclear energy.

not putting words in his mouth, but it'd be related to a small or minor defect in the two-stranded DNA. to go further, the various races of ET have not fused together sufficiently to allow a sustainable race to adapt and prosper on the Earthplane.

Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed and others brought their best game. now, we're deep in the eighth inning, storm clouds are brewing, and the concern is that the game is going to be rained out.

Two things, the Palestinians will not stop killing Jews...and why should the Jews give up Jerusalem or even parts of it.

I personally think they have shewn remarkable restraint in not doing away with Gaza entirely...they could have if they wanted to, and the Western world would have cheered and clapped.

They didn't and that alone says a lot for them.

Saladin didn't push King Richard's crowd into the sea.

tit for tat?

negotiate?

Semantics...Israeli's = Jews of some type or other.

Here is a thought, you get off your arse and wander into Gaza and try negotiating with the lunatics...we will see how long your peculiar ideas keep you alive.

ok. but a question first?

which side of the borderline does the greatest number of lunatics live on? I suspect it's about an equal number.

being a wild-eyed lunatic is nothing new in the world.

Both lots are armed to the teeth and I am pleased I am nowhere near either whilst they are in the mood to fight.

My mother, and my aunt were both going to Israel this year to do the usual I-was-there rubbish that God-botherers seem to thrive on...I managed to get it through their thick skulls that it would not be a good idea.


I am starting to think I should have just let them go, it would serve the Middle East right.

lol. we've got so many serious people who either choose to align with Palestianians or the Jews. For peace, don't you know.

the politics is killing us all, or at least putting us at risk.

maybe after 60 years of the experiment, maybe the conditions should be adjusted?

short of those wild=eyed lunatics choosing to kill each other in God's name, none of the "big-guns" know what to do next.

from Hama's perspectice reducing the eater & breeder load by Israili missles might be considered a positive? living in Israel and being pounded by missles would last about an hour in my neighborhood, or the death count would escalate on both sides.

I'm never understood why the Arab States (57?) didn't take the Palestinians in, enmasse?

I guess in an overpopulated world, a loss of a few human lives is not all that expensive?>

What to do next?

Simple, step out of the way and let them sort it out.

Without the perpetual "ceasefires" imposed by foreigners every time the Jews get serious it is a safe bet the palestinians would pull their heads in.

it would seem pretty obvious then if you hold that opinion then you also understand that the Jews don't really want peace - as I said, the price of peace is too steep - war is cheaper to them.

Just don't put it all on the Palestinians when you say "why should the jews give up part of Jerusalem" when there are muslim holy sites scattered throughout the city.

well, in the extreme we could go two completely different directions.

one, is allow all religions to be there. count the number of "qualifying" religions, and divide the place up amongst them.

secondly, and far better, is to outlaw all religions in the zone. that is, it's a residential and natural area. the religions of every kind, type, flavor and persuasion gets their arses kicked out, and persona non grata.

just like Jesus scourged the traditional Hebrews. a new world order has been borne. slow to gain acceptace and to take off, but it's beginning to get legs under it.

the Muslims, Jews, and various others can do their Holy work elsewhere.

I still haven't figured out why Israel let Gaza continue to exist as a Palestinian strong hold back in the early 1950's?

They expelled the Palestinians out of most of Israel, so why did they leave Gaza to fester, with the Palestinians increasing in population year on year??

I don't know what a solution for Jerusalem is but if your stance is in absolutes - then you can't really talk about wanting peace from either side

expelling people from land isn't anything new, I don't fully understand it either

Perhaps it was a condition imposed on them by the western world.

The UN and civilized Western nations wouldn't allow them to get away with quite that level of evil. Lesser levels, yes, but not to that degree.

Zechariah 14:12

And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

Maybe not,....but you can quit displaying it to the world.

You left out the most important part: "And even Juda shall fight against Jerusalem."

Zachariah 14,14.

Christians understand this to mean that even the Jews will join in the word's efforts to destroy Christ's Church, symbolized in Zachariah as Jerusalem.

When all the towel heads are dead.

vel when the Persians got overrun by the Arabs and their Muslim/Islamic Religion, I don't think the hard-core ldershp ever got much past the Zoroastrian Truth.

the Jews know this. some are thankful, and some are fearful.

the Middle East is not a monotheistic geographic area.

I CANNOT FIX STUPID
I can explain your Stupid to you. I cannot make you understand your Stupid.

I disagree. The Muslims and Jews share the same God. It's the radicals who have corrupted the Koran who don't want peace. Evil men with evil intentions of power and control who hate everything Christian, Jew and peaceful.

kwg

That's why they completely pulled out of Gaza a few years back.

I guess WW2 was an anomaly.

This isn't a case of nations at war.

As long as both sides look at it through a religious lens, there will never be long term peace. So what are the chances that either side can come to an agreement outside a religious view point?. . . only through military strength can that happen. Israel must totally devastate the islamofascist terrorists and control their own borders and security buffer zone.

First of all the "Promised Land" (to Abraham) was given to the Israelites, with specific conditions . . . as long as they obeyed God they would be blessed. If they turned from God the land would be taken from them. We all know that is exactly what happened. The Mosaic economy and Priesthood was literally destroyed in AD 70 though the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, never more to rise. The "Jews" of modern day Israel are not the "Israel of God." The Mosaic age ended finally and completely in AD 70 and the Kingdom of Messiah Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God) was established in its place, forever and ever.

This is the problem I have with U.S. government Presidents and officials making decisions about modern day Israel with a view toward some future return of Messiah, to reign for a literal 1000 years, in the literal City of Jerusalem, and sit on David's literal throne. All of the Presidents in my lifetime (except for Obammy) have been proponents of this religious view point, claiming that Israel has a Biblical right (supported by God) to the land of current day Israel. That is simply not supported by the Scriptures, but US policy is based on that false premise.

I can't argue, however, that Israel does not have a legal and moral right to the land upon which their nation is built. It was carved out and given to them, under international law, by the British (who owned the land in 1948) but it had nothing to do with Biblical prophecy as many claim. God had already fulfilled every promise to Abraham and Israel with reference to the land, and he took it away from them because of their unbelief and disobedience (ultimately crucifying the Messiah.)

So I support Israel 100% today only because they are a peace loving nation based on the same moral principles, freedom and democracy, and free-enterprise economy as is America. They are an ally, worthy of our support and assistance. After what happened to the Jews in WW2 with the Nazi holocaust, it only makes sense that those who claim to be Jews should have their own country and safe haven from islamofascists who are trying to continue Hitler's "final solution."

Seems like most folks interpret that differently:

http://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-14.htm

Well, you have the religion aspect just about right. Not much else, though.

Whether the Jews are simply fighting at Jerusalem (ambiguous as to which side they are on) or fighting against Jerusalem is the question. If against, then we must exclude the Dispensationalist interpretation. In Hebrew to English it appears to us at best ambiguous as to which side Judah is on in the battle. From the Greek (Septuagint) to English, however, it's quite clear that Judah is fighting against Jerusalem.

So where do we get the Septuagint, and what's its authority? The Septuagint was the work of Jewish scholars just previous to the time of Christ. By Christ's time, Hebrew was a long dead language, and those who actually wished to study the Scriptures required that they be in Greek. The Septuagint was the official approved Greek edition of the Sacred Scriptures for the Jews.

To the Scholars who wrote it, there was no ambiguity as to the Hebrew, since they translated it into Greek as Judah fighting against Jerusalem. Jesus himself quoted from the Septuagint, lending even greater weight to its authority in his time. That being the case, there's no way to interpret the verse whereby Jerusalem means the literal city, which couldn't both be occupied by Judah and attacked by Judah. It only lends itself to Jerusalem being a metaphor for Christ's true flock, i.e., his Church, which is how Christians have interpreted it for millennia.

so much brilliance here, we all should apply for jobs at the UN. Regardless of your religious affiliation, if a man shoots at you your going to shoot back and Hamas plans for this to happen. The outcomes of these events are thus predetermined and preplanned. Hamas spends an awful lot of money on tunnels and rockets, Israel does not go sashaying into Gaza unless the rockets hit them, Hamas has the better PR machine and each time it happens the Israelis are ostracized a bit more. Who knows maybe one day the blue helmeted troops will attack Israel. Damn shame its a capitalistic country with good technology for sale.

Get rid of radical moozlums, check that, All muzlims and you csn have Pesce in the Middle East tomorrow.

now if they'd only stop taking handouts from the United States, they'd be good.

That's a red herring dude. Its got nothing to do with the money the US gives them. The Arabs want the property, the Israelis want the same property. Its that simple, never going to change until one side is all dead.

We need to stop giving either of them any aid and let them work it out.

when Israel is surrounded by a glass parking lot...

I understand, and my point is - we need to stop getting involved.

People rail about government picking winners and losers in business, but are perfectly ok with us dropping money into the bottomless pit that is the middle east.

Israel has no desire to have meaningful compromise as long as they know we have their back - and Hamas/Arabs have no desire to pullback knowing we keep Israel on a leash.

You are close. muslims, not just Arabs but all muslims want every Jew dead and they will not stop until it happens. The twisted sick book they follow, has an end of the world savior story where every Jew and every Christian must die and a muslim super hero/god rules the world.

my loyalties lean toward the Jews, history easily demonstrates for those among us that "think" instead of "emote" that Islam is and always has been a religion of aggression towards all other peoples and religions. A leopard cannot change its spots.

my loyalties lean toward the United States

The biggest problem, especially for Americans, is confusing Middle Eastern conflict with religion as is intended propaganda. Israel's genocide of Palestinians has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with ethnic cleansing and conquest.

Through the Middle Ages, kings duped peasants in to believing wars were of religion. That's because peasants had nothing but belief in God and Heaven. Existence on Earth was merely a process for them until they could dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven. Kings would have never been successful of raising armies of conquest of land and treasure had they told peasants truth. So kings manipulated hapless peasants by telling them they were fighting wars commanded by God. Even Ireland's 20th century battles with GB were political. Religion was adroitly used to mask hegemonic intent.

Americans are the most propagandized people on Earth. Most Americans ought not vote, for they enslave themselves by yanking voting booth levers.

If Christians fear any religion, it ought to be Judaism. I don't have to rehash New Testament gospel of Jesus. It has been repeated here ad nauseam. No Islamic country has ever declared war on us. Israel has.

Again, read the Talmud before deciding which side you're on. It will be of immense benefit to know who your authentic enemy is and what it believes.

But for some, ignorance is blissful so says the ostrich.

What about a country that has declared war on the USA? Are you good with siding with it & giving it aid and comfort? Your tax dollars? But then again, Israel murdered only 34 American soldiers. Apparently many posters here are good with sacrificing only 34 American sailors.

The Jews brought down the twin towers? I didn't know that.

Apparently you don't know much.

What country brought down the Twin Towers? Never mind. You don't know.

Here's a clue: no country brought down the Twin Towers. Terrorists did. Can you discern the difference. Think about it and get back to me next year after you figure it out.

Scott, you're a perfect example of a propagandized American who ought not vote. What you THINK you know is far from fact.

Um, actually, the government of Afghanistan directly supported the people that hijacked those planes. Granted, it wasn't much of a government, but it was "the" government nonetheless.....

By your argument, if some terrorists trained and outfitted by Iran staged a massive attack killing thousands in the US on our soil, well, we shouldn't do jack because they were just terrorists.

Pure genius.

Don't bother, he is most likely a goat shagging Islamic shill, and you are wasting your time attempting meaningful discourse.

Just ignore it.

You know nothing about me, my education, or my IQ so reject your statements.

It is not any one country or race of people we are in conflict but rather a false religion that calls for the eradication of every person that will not bow to their radical demands. It is a religion that grants the highest honor to those who die killing everybody else.

Scott, I can read what you post & deduce your knowledge.

Were you referring to Judaism here:

"It is not any one country or race of people we are in conflict but rather a false religion that calls for the eradication of every person that will not bow to their radical demands. It is a religion that grants the highest honor to those who die killing everybody else."

+1

If not, he should have been.

Unless they converted to Islam or paid protection money, the Christians were told, they would get �nothing but the sword.� It was now clear, the 30,000 to 50,000 Christians who fled Mosul over the last decade wouldn�t be able to return, and the several hundred still remaining there this month needed to get out fast. (Iraqi Christian parliamentarian Younadam Kannan said at least five Christian families too sick to leave renounced their faith for Islam �to stay alive,� though one of their daughters did flee.)

There will be a bigger war soon.

You will say this until the Muslims knock on your front door and tell you to convert or die

our war is happening down on our southern border, not in Gaza

Author Naomi Wolf was challenged to read the Bible. What she found blew her mind (her words). What she wrote about this is likely to blow your mind, too.

She posted the results on Facebook on Monday morning:

Okay, so I was challenged below: �Read the Bible! God gave the land of Israel to the Jewish people.�

So�.I may get crucified for this but I have started to say it � most recently (terrified, trembling) to warm welcome in a synagogue in LA:
Actually if you read Genesis Exodus and Deuteronomy in Hebrew � as I do � you see that God did not �give� Israel to the Jews/Israelites. We as Jews are raised with the creed that �God gave us the land of Israel� in Genesis � and that ethnically �we are the chosen people.�
But actually � and I could not believe my eyes when I saw this, I checked my reading with major scholars and they confirmed it � actually God�s �covenant� in Genesis, exodus and Deuteronomy with the Jewish people is NOT ABOUT AN ETHNICITY AND NOT ABOUT A CONTRACT. IT IS ABOUT A WAY OF BEHAVING.
Again and again in the �covenant� language He never says: �I will give you, ethnic Israelites, the land of Israel.� Rather He says something far more radical � far more subversive � far more Godlike in my view. He says: IF you visit those imprisoned�act mercifully to the widow and the orphan�welcome the stranger in your midst�tend the sick�do justice and love mercy �.and perform various other tasks�THEN YOU WILL BE MY PEOPLE AND THIS LAND WILL BE YOUR LAND.
So �my people� is not ethnic � it is transactional. We are God�s people not by birth but by a way of behaving, that is ethical, kind and just. And we STOP being �God�s people� when we are not ethical, kind and just. And ANYONE who is ethical, kind and just is, according to God in Genesis, �God�s people.�
And the �contract� to �give� us Israel is conditional � we can live in God�s land IF we are �God�s people� in this way � just, merciful, compassionate. AND � it never ever says, it is ONLY your land. Even when passages spell out geographical �boundaries� as if God does such a thing, it never says this is exclusively your land.
It never says I will give this land JUST to you. Remember these were homeless nomads who had left slavery in Egypt and were wandering around in the desert; at most these passages say, settle here, but they do not say, settle here exclusively. Indeed again and again it talks about welcoming �zarim� � translated as �strangers� but can also be translated as �people/tribes who are not you� � in your midst.
Blew my mind, hope it blows yours.

You can read the rest here: here.

How many Jews have attacked the US? My understanding is it is islam that wants all Jews and all Christians dead.

This !!!

Did the CIA fill you in on this, MSM, or did you come up with it on your own?

peace in the middle east --- when pigs can fly

The Talmud tells how much contempt they have for all Christians and Christian culture. You want to see murder of Christians and Christian culture on a massive scale by Jews in control of a government? Look no further than the history of Russia.

You have read you AIPAC script well, for you are master of disinformation.

You're got these disinformation tactics wired:

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as �kooks�, �right-wing�, �liberal�, �left-wing�, �terrorists�, �conspiracy buffs�, �radicals�, �militia�, �racists�, �religious fanatics�, �sexual deviates�, and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism reasoning � simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent�s viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could so taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough �jargon� and �minutiae� to illustrate you are �one who knows�, and simply say it isn�t so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

Hasbara is Jewish propaganda aimed at foreign countries.

Jewish Hasbara Troll attributes:

1.Supreme point of view
2.The Hasbara troll knows best
3.Condescending & Patronising
4.Socialist (Smart and �caring�)
5.Do not have to be Jewish but Pro-Israel
6.Internet experts
7.Narcissistic
8.Provocative
9.Dis-ruptive
10.Like to ask the questions, not answer questions
11.Control freaks
12.Inflamed by anyone being critical of Israel
13.�Moral� Guardians
14.Classic insults: Anti-semite, Neo- Nazi, White Supremacist, Holocaust denier
15.Adept with social networks well trained on IT

Hasbara trolls use internet alerts to warn them when hot keywords are mentioned. Keywords such as Israel, Jewish, Judaism etc. When those words are mentioned they are alerted and they go to investigate who is talking about what.

Troll techniques:

1.Turn up randomly asking question about Israel, trying to engage/educate.
2.Guilt by association, they point to some source your are linked to as being anti-semitic or neo-nazi.
3.Opportunity to redeem � the offer chance to recant from your naive ways.
4.Smears and insults � if the top 3 fail then it�s just character assassination.
5.Name bombing � using seo in blackhat ways to denounce and smear people. ie website with 37 mentions of someones name will prob get a Page one on Google.
6.Hasbara trolls generally follow the rules of social networks, because they want to continue to influence people and subvert open and free debate.

Can we guess who the Hasbara trolls on the 'fire are??? ;-)

Hey you, you camel humping wannabe sand flea.


Don't you know what the;

*** You are ignoring this user ***
Toggle the display of this post


means.

Stick with me now...try to drag your gaze from behind the dromedary nuts for just a second and concentrate!

It means...I don't give a flying toss about you or your bullshit, I am not impressed about your knowledge of Islam, I don't give a toss about your knowledge of Israel, the Jews, or any of a myriad other subjects you may wish to discuss.

You are a shill, and not a very good one at that.

I grew up in a Jewish community then came back after the Navy to go to collage. I do not remember a single car bomb is all hose years.

In my old age I must be a Jew. I just want to me left alone to live in peace and will respond when some a$$hole tries to kill me or my loved ones.

Never heard of the Jewish Defense League? Google JDL Terrorism and murder in the US.

I guess Naomi Wolf is smart enough to vote in your utopia.

I am a real time person. I do not live by what happened to my ancestors before I was born. I live for what is in front of me now. Israel is now. Gaza is now. One has been trying to kill and the other is reacting.

They've been trying to kill one another for millennia. They'll continue to do exactly that. Let them, and we should stay the Hell out of it.

Right up till they take another poke at us, then I could not begin to express the depths of destruction I would bring.

Until then, popcorn and beer.

Yep. I'm all for going back to unleashing Hell on our enemies; scorching earth, leaving none standing, and all the survivors in the area going "whoa, ain't no way in Hell I'm gonna try that".

First they want to eradicate the Little Satan then the Big Satan. We are the Big, Israel is the Little.

they ain't gonna do [bleep] to big satan, especially if we focus on protecting our borders and not meddle in the borders of other countries.

Your memory sucks, as does your loyalty to those you are treaty bound to.

Exactly when are we going to start doing that?

I don't think so. When it comes to Israel, haters abound. It can be seen all over these threads, and of late, throughout the world clearly demonstrated.

God said He would bless those who blessed Israel and curse those who cursed it. God will not be mocked. Those blessings and cursings will certainly come to pass.

First, there is no genocide but to the haters of Israel. Second, it has everything to do with faith, that you refer to as religion.

There has never been peace in the middle east, and there never will be.... but there is absolutely no chance in hell as long as we are sticking our noses in it and supplying weapons to one side or the other!

Phil

"Muslims have built the very fabric of our country." Barak Obama

You're an obvious Rule 5'er.

And Palestinian genocide is now as is Israel's oppressive apartheid government, How's that for reality?

Who are our enemies?

That damned list is LOOOOONG!

List a few for me off of your long list.

who is Sansouci, and what brings him to the campfire?

Are you a muslim?

and I am not violating rule number 10, nor am I a hasbara troll, just an average Georgia Cracker.

What are you? again are you a Muslim?

Not true. There were long stretches of peace there spanning centuries, even with Jews, Muslims, and Christians living and praying side by side. The problems started when the Western nations assisted the Zionists in stealing the land from the Palestinians in order to establish a Jewish apartheid nation there.

TRH,

Did you get my PM?

Thx

Obviously it hasn't worked for you. But then again, you might just be a 5'er.

I guess Jerusalem never belonged to the Jews, so the land was indeed stolen from the Arabs.

Study history & you'll now Sans Souci.

What if I were Muslim? Would you attack me? Threaten me.

You are a confirmed No. 5'er.

I did.

send me a PM Sans, I would love to get the facts and a list of references so I can check them out and join your side of the argument.

Why is it that Zionists can't engage in Socratic debate of this topic w/o resorting to Rule No. 5?

I've yet to read a cogent argument from a No. 5'er that has refuted a rational argument.

Revising history is the prominent hallmark of liberals & neocons. It makes me suspicious of motive.

You don't need it. All you need is found in this thread.

You named yourself after a kine of womens clothing?

gitem_12,

Yep, you're a 5'er.

If you can't be objective, how you perform the functions of your job?

your breaking your own rules, you called me a Zionist, are you a muslim or not?

When all the people are gone, then the middle east will be peaceful,,,,,, course no-one will be around to verify the fact

You are a Zionist. Truth negates Rule No. 5.

Why would you can whether I'm a Muslim? How would that matter to the facts of this debate.

All of the objectivity I meed when it comes to muslim terrorist organizations resides in the events of 9/11.

It wasn't jews that flew planes into our buildings

What is, "...a kine of womens [sic] clothing"?

Another failure of public education.

Study Frederich the Great. That's a solid for you. You can follow a clue, can't you?

Sansouci is a line of womens clothing. I figured the natural fit for a tranny chasing mental case like yourself

And who flew planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and into Pennsylvania countryside?

What COUNTRY attacked the USS Liberty and murdered American sailors thus declaring war on the USA?

Because if you don't join them in worshiping the Jewish race you are, a priori, in the wrong. No argument necessary.

I have no clue of women's clothing lines. There must be a reason you do. Mall Cop? Projection?

I do know Frederich the Great.

What language is sans souci, and why was it significant to Frederich the Great?

I found a photo of gitem_12 working his mall's arcade:

[img:center]http://media.photobucket.com/user/M...8f5490fa6c17476c5c6c196.jpg.html?filters[term]=paul%20blart&filters[primary]=images&filters[secondary]=videos&sort=1&o=6[/img]

I googled tranny chasing troll with mulitple personalities, and it came up with a bunch of hits for Sansouci womens clothing. Figured it a shoe in for you

isreal, apologized for the Liberty and paid over 3 million dollars to the families.

How much money have your goat foockin muzzie friends paid to the families of 9/11

That's easy. Take your pick of muzzy countries. We should fry them all

gitem_12,

Since you're all about Google knowledge, wrong as it is for you, find out what language sans souci is & why it was important for a Prussian.

If you were a muslim and followed your quran it would be your duty to kill me as I am a Christian. Before your savior comes all Jews, Christians and all other non muslims must be killed.

What is a 5'er?

Why would you suppose Israel apologized for attacking the USS Liberty? Why would you suppose Israel removed all emblems of its country from jets used to attack the USS Liberty? After four hours' unrelenting attack of the USS Liberty, why would you suppose it suddenly abandoned its attack?

Maybe facts might help you. But then again, probably not.

I'd love to read one of your mall cop reports.

You are a 5'er.

If you're Christian, you ought to know the New Testament.

Are you really a cop?

Here's a clue for you. Terrorists, not a country, attacked us on 9/11. In contrast, Israel, a country, declared war on us. Can you discern contrast here? Implications?

It must really suck to live in such a diseased mental state, that the only reality you can find is conspiracy theory websites.

BTW, I wiped my ass with a page from the koran today

I am and I do. I just do not remember any verse where it says thou shall not be a 5'er.

All I asked for was a simple explanation. If that is beyond your ability I will end this conversation.

I wish our president would have gone on record immediately from the Rose Garden stating that we will also support Israel in kicking Hezbollah's (or any other radicalized Arab group's) a$$ as well should they start in. Instead he used the venue to announce the questionable Bergdahl deal.

I am no fan of the president, but at least he has not yet stymied Israel's request for more munitions to continue their ongoing mission. Too bad Kerry has been talking out of both sides of his mouth, and was not more clear initially in making clear our unequivocal support of Israel from the vey beginning of this latest dust up.

Obama is only 99.98% in the pocket of his masters. Too bad he's not 99.99% in their pocket like Bush was, right?

5er is a 5 series BMW.I have no idea what he thinks it is.Next he will be telling us how the Moon landing was filmed in Nevada.

I may never know. Instead of having a reasonable discussion he chose condescending remarks and no real answers.

It earned him an ignore.

1. You are communicating in a condescending tone as if you have secret knowledge or at minimum know more than anyone else. Which I might add you attribute to Zionist behavior yet are guilty of yourself.

2. You refuse to answer a relevant question, it is highly likely if indeed you are a muslim that you have an emotional inclination towards hatred of the Jews.

You sir are a charlatan that seeks to pretend to be above the fray, differentiated by your supposed superior understanding of "the issues" and yet you are no more than a cad of the lowest ilk.

Trouble us not with your lofty platitudes against the Jew and Zionism unless you identify yourself for who you are. As stated I am a simple Georgia Cracker that despises "know nothings" that pretend to be someone of import. Who are you sir? A muslim?

I am still waiting for him to explain why, after Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians and it resulted in rockets being shot into Israel, Israel should act like it won't happen again?

Hezbollah affirms it's intention to erase Israel from the map. Point to the government of Israel stating that it's intention is to eliminate the Palestinians.

Severely twisted as to rise to a significant level of evil.

These words are so far divorced from reality that they can only be attributed to a sickness of the mind. A sickness of the soul.

Ignore is our friend.

Middle east peace?

Lol.....NEVER........

Your Dispensationalism, which blasphemously raises ethnic Jews to the status of semi-divine, is showing.

As is your ability to ignore recent historical events that don't align properly with your hatred of them.....

I view Jews like anyone else in the world, and judge them by the same standards by which I judge others. You see this perspective as hatred because you believe there is much more owed to the Jewish people than to be judged like one would judge any other people, i.e., without rose-colored glasses.

It is not Anti-Semite to disagree with Israel.
It is Anti-Semite to lie about Israel. To back your lies with Anti-Semite sources.

You view Jews the same way you view Masons as Devil worshipers.
You view Jews the same way you view veterans as tools of an Imperialistic Nation-state.
And all of us, not being as smart and all-knowing as you are, are simply too stupid, too na�ve to understand.

I asked you earlier, but you seemed to ignore it: how much time have you spent in the middle east?

I ask because your outrage at the actions of Israel are disproportionate considering your lack of outrage at, well, the fact that Gaza was given to the Palestinians by Israel less than a generation ago, and doing so only resulted in rockets being shot at them.

I have yet to hear from the haters specifically what Israel should do. Should they just pretend they are a target for rockets? Do nothing? Completely close their border?

Be specific.

While you are waiting...do not...I repeat...do not...hold your breath until you hear from them

one of the beauties of the internet is that it attracts a range of strange ideas.

one of the beauties of this forum is that it attracts a sub-range of bizzare ideas.

the goldbugs are wired they way they are wired. they think it's normal. they can't comprehend anything more than that. they're limited, in other words.

YHWH thought conflict with others was good. iron sharpens iron, or something like that?

To answer the question: When it freezes over.

You guys were right. I sure am glad I wasn't holding my breath...