I persist in seeing little shots taken at Ken Howell, mainly from the normal suspects. He no longer posts on the campfire, but has email available. Anyone wanting to ask him stuff personally, all you have to do is forward a request to me with your email address, and i will get it to him. He doesn't hear well, so phone conversation is out. He even extended that invitation to his house, which I am going to decline passing along. He can give that invitation himself after email contact. This is for those that want to know who and what kind of man he is. Not to continue the jabbing. From the usual suspects.
I should add as i am already getting emails. If you want to contact him, give me your email, and i will forward then it's up to him. Rather than me just giving out his email address.
I have never met him. I know folks that have. Never heard so much as a hint of anything bad about the man. The internet can be either a wonderful place or a place of concern. The choice is yours. As more and more people lock on to a site where people "seem" to be enjoying themselves there are those that wish to hide behind a keyboard and attempt to destroy the comradary. Maybe it's just me entering old age, but I find myself being much less tolerant. Some should get off the pity train and get on with life.
Me three. One of my sons and I spent a day with Ken a few years ago. He is a very kind and generous man. He gave my son a whole pile of books on a subject that interests him. I'm deeply saddened that he was hounded off this board. I can't say that I blame him, though.
Me three. One of my sons and I spent a day with Ken a few years ago. He is a very kind and generous man. He gave my son a whole pile of books on a subject that interests him. I'm deeply saddened that he was hounded off this board. I can't say that I blame him, though.
I doubt that the Doctor was hounded off this board.
Ken and I had our differences of opinion on things through the years, but I always respected him for being a great fellow, and a very knowledgeable man. I have always wished him well.
Me three. One of my sons and I spent a day with Ken a few years ago. He is a very kind and generous man. He gave my son a whole pile of books on a subject that interests him. I'm deeply saddened that he was hounded off this board. I can't say that I blame him, though.
I doubt that the Doctor was hounded off this board.
That is not what he told me. He got sick and tired of all personal attacks and the attacks on him. I have followed Ken and his writings since long before there was a 24 Hour Campfire. I have been in his home and I have sat with him around real camp fires. A finer man would be hard to find. In his e-mail this morning he offered any who were in doubt of him a room with a bed and private bathroom so they could talk face to face.
He's a human being with a brilliant mind but like everybody else, subject to all of the fine points and foibles, graciousness and pettiness, vanity and dignity, strengths and weaknesses of all of us.
He has accomplished a lot in life and probably has forgotten more about hand loading and ballistics than many of us will ever know, but he also takes great pride in pointing out to the rest of us (always obliquely, never directly) how brightly his halo is polished and how it glows at maximum wattage, even as he behaves like any other human being. I think that is what attracts a lot of his detractors, using and even subtly encouraging others to curse his enemies in his name while he stands by innocent of all wrong doing. He is also the best judo arguer I've ever seen - you push, he pulls, you pull, he pushes. If he is attacked he becomes overly gracious and offers overtures of peace to make his attacker look like the evil party. If you're gracious, he subtly attacks you.
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can. He has a great vocabulary, that's for sure, I learned some good new words from reading his posts.
He has a huge ego but will deny it and takes great umbrage if accused of it, but without that ego he probably would not have achieved his advanced degrees or lassoed grizzly bears or done any of a hundred things that most of us never will.
It doesn't help to romanticize anyone nor unduly attack them while ignoring their good points. I hope I am not guilty of the latter here. Like most, I hope he is doing well.
I'm glad he's doing well. I miss him here. Always enjoyed his magazine articles. He has a lot to offer for those who are humble enough to listen. Too many people on here, don't know what they don't know.
Never had anything but nice things to say about Mr Howell. And each and every one of you knows Steelhead is the instigator of so much nastiness on here, including against Ken Howell. I for one am fed up with the BS so I have taken the offensive against azzholes like Steelhead. If you can't see that for what it is then I guess that's the way it is.
He's a human being with a brilliant mind but like everybody else, subject to all of the fine points and foibles, graciousness and pettiness, vanity and dignity, strengths and weaknesses of all of us.
He has accomplished a lot in life and probably has forgotten more about hand loading and ballistics than many of us will ever know, but he also takes great pride in pointing out to the rest of us (always obliquely, never directly) how brightly his halo is polished and how it glows at maximum wattage, even as he behaves like any other human being. I think that is what attracts a lot of his detractors, using and even subtly encouraging others to curse his enemies in his name while he stands by innocent of all wrong doing. He is also the best judo arguer I've ever seen - you push, he pulls, you pull, he pushes. If you attack him, he becomes overly gracious and offers overtures of peace. If you're gracious, he subtly attacks you.
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can. He has a great vocabulary, that's for sure, I learned some good new words from reading his posts.
He has a huge ego but will deny it and takes great umbrage if accused of it, but without that ego he probably would not have achieved his advanced degrees or lassoed grizzly bears or done any of a hundred things he has accomplished that most of us never will.
It doesn't help to romanticize anyone nor unduly attack them while ignoring their good points. I hope I am not guilty of the latter here. Like most, I hope he is doing well.
He's a human being with a brilliant mind but like everybody else, subject to all of the fine points and foibles, graciousness and pettiness, vanity and dignity, strengths and weaknesses of all of us.
He has accomplished a lot in life and probably has forgotten more about hand loading and ballistics than many of us will ever know, but he also takes great pride in pointing out to the rest of us (always obliquely, never directly) how brightly his halo is polished and how it glows at maximum wattage, even as he behaves like any other human being. I think that is what attracts a lot of his detractors, using and even subtly encouraging others to curse his enemies in his name while he stands by innocent of all wrong doing. He is also the best judo arguer I've ever seen - you push, he pulls, you pull, he pushes. If you attack him, he becomes overly gracious and offers overtures of peace. If you're gracious, he subtly attacks you.
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can. He has a great vocabulary, that's for sure, I learned some good new words from reading his posts.
He has a huge ego but will deny it and takes great umbrage if accused of it, but without that ego he probably would not have achieved his advanced degrees or lassoed grizzly bears or done any of a hundred things that most of us never will.
It doesn't help to romanticize anyone nor unduly attack them while ignoring their good points. I hope I am not guilty of the latter here. Like most, I hope he is doing well.
I continue to hold Ken in high esteem, and I hope he is doing well. He is an easy guy to like in person, for those who have not had the opportunity to meet him.
He's a human being with a brilliant mind but like everybody else, subject to all of the fine points and foibles, graciousness and pettiness, vanity and dignity, strengths and weaknesses of all of us.
He has accomplished a lot in life and probably has forgotten more about hand loading and ballistics than many of us will ever know, but he also takes great pride in pointing out to the rest of us (always obliquely, never directly) how brightly his halo is polished and how it glows at maximum wattage, even as he behaves like any other human being. I think that is what attracts a lot of his detractors, using and even subtly encouraging others to curse his enemies in his name while he stands by innocent of all wrong doing. He is also the best judo arguer I've ever seen - you push, he pulls, you pull, he pushes. If he is attacked he becomes overly gracious and offers overtures of peace to make his attacker look like the evil party. If you're gracious, he subtly attacks you.
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can. He has a great vocabulary, that's for sure, I learned some good new words from reading his posts.
He has a huge ego but will deny it and takes great umbrage if accused of it, but without that ego he probably would not have achieved his advanced degrees or lassoed grizzly bears or done any of a hundred things that most of us never will.
It doesn't help to romanticize anyone nor unduly attack them while ignoring their good points. I hope I am not guilty of the latter here. Like most, I hope he is doing well.
Jim, thanks for posting this. It illustrates the human condition of us all, whether we admit it or not. Life is not as black and white as some folks want to portray it. Glass full or glass empty, starts out with a person's attitude about self, then others. I enjoyed Mr Howell and his posts for the time he was on the campfire.
Honestly, I would definitely take away the "prick" and just leave pretentious, and not even that most of the time.
He really has packed three lifetimes of doing things into one. Most folks here who had done what he has would be bragging of those accomplishments at every turn. I don't believe he is mean spirited in the least and if given a chance is truly as gracious as others have said. I've spoken to him on the phone three times and didn't sense any condescension or pretentiousness in the least although he did like to dominate the conversations. He has all of this knowledge in him and wants to impart it so it is wise to just shut up and listen to him. My only recommendation for self-observation is that he seems to truly believe that he is not subject to the ills of ordinary human egos even while displaying that he most definitely is to those who are carefully watching.
A brilliant man, a man wanting to help those around him, but in the end a man just like all of the rest of us.
I continue to hold Ken in high esteem, and I hope he is doing well. He is an easy guy to like in person, for those who have not had the opportunity to meet him.
He is indeed easy to like in person...We have discussed a few cartridges too. I made a reamer for a little pipsqueak of a 6mm cartridge that we were in cahoots on , never did chamber a rifle for it although I did form some brass...
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can.
As a truly world class wordsmith he can cuss out and berate someone as viciously as any troll, but his actual words allow him to maintain a plausible deniability. His anger and denigration shine though exactly as he meant them to but he can point at the exact words he used and with hands folded innocently and eyes cast heavenward deny that was his intent. He plays to his own self image of being a saint as well as anyone ever has. I really wish I could write as skillfully as he can.
In this paragraph, I believe you have.
+1 as they say.
Funny, I just got back to reading this thread and thought the same thing.
Geno
PS, congrats Jim, on becoming a "famous" writer
PPS, also Jim, don't forget , the best thing about the pinnacle deal and downhill the rest of the way....
I'm glad he's doing well. I miss him here. Always enjoyed his magazine articles. He has a lot to offer for those who are humble enough to listen. Too many people on here, don't know what they don't know.
And are often only too happy to use that as a pedestal from which to put others down.
But..... I don't expect perfection from my friends.
Once "Veneration of Elders" is no longer an important part of a culture, that culture is in a death spiral.It can only get worse, never better.
Because of Ken, we have witnessed that downward spiral in the "Campfire Culture". For instance,if you dislike me because of things I post on this forum, you have harmed neither yourself, me, or the forum. But, if you resent me because I'm 74 YO and refuse to die, you have harmed both yourself AND the forum.But you've done me no harm.
It's even more prevalent in the general population of this country, and THAT does not bode well for our future.
Ken is a generous, thoughtful guy who I have both agreed with and verbally sparred with on here over the years. It's sad that he either can't or won't get on here anymore although it was painful to watch him get put down. He's one of the smartest and most experienced men on the fire. Like Curdog said, he's not perfect. I wish him all the best.
Never had anything but nice things to say about Mr Howell. And each and every one of you knows Steelhead is the instigator of so much nastiness on here, including against Ken Howell. I for one am fed up with the BS so I have taken the offensive against azzholes like Steelhead. If you can't see that for what it is then I guess that's the way it is.
I know exactly who steelhead is. I've been acquainted with him longer than you. I also know who posted first. See that for what it is.
Never had anything but nice things to say about Mr Howell. And each and every one of you knows Steelhead is the instigator of so much nastiness on here, including against Ken Howell. I for one am fed up with the BS so I have taken the offensive against azzholes like Steelhead. If you can't see that for what it is then I guess that's the way it is.
I know exactly who steelhead is. I've been acquainted with him longer than you. I also know who posted first. See that for what it is.
My rebuttals to firenuts continues to get deleted but Firenuts post can be here.
But..... I don't expect perfection from my friends.
If we only picked our friends because they were perfect I wouldn't have a friend in the world. I'm not so how could I demand perfection from anybody else?
I have PMed Ken a couple of times and found him to be very nice, and have spoke on the phone to several here that have met him and all say he's a great dude. I like him.
On Internet forums, an elder is someone that signed up the day before you did.
Too bad it isn't so easy to figure out. Unfortunately, that ain't it anymore than one can determine who the elders are based on their wisdom. (Some might not live long enough. )
Very few, if any, of us aren't 'crusty' around the edges from time to time. And I venture that very few of us come across via this medium as we do in person.
It did lead me to this, though. So it was worth it. I'm still laffin'.
Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by Fireball2
this is very entertaining, the wife left for a drive so she wouldn't say anything she regretted. Maybe the wife got tired of the husband complaining of him not being the center the attention, of her accent and her culture, and her parents (which by the way live half a world away and are rarely welcome to come visit) the wife works 10 and half hour days, drives two hours for work and still has to come home cook, clean and make sure she is in bed by eight 30 because her husband says he needs the sleep. yes also the other complain is that she wakes him up in the morning when she has to get up at 5 am to do it all over again. yes, also the three kids, yes she should be grateful that he took her in with three kids, especially when she solely supports them and has to attend every school event by herself because the husband is too stuck in the computer for hours on end visiting with his forum friends that do not care if lives or dies. bipolar, that was the last diagnoses for the second wife. respectfully a hard working woman that is fed up. thank you
They can't all be as happy as your wife. Laffin
That's the greatest thing ever posted on the Fire.
I've known Ken for a long time and bunked with him in the first get-together we had in Raton NM at the NRA's Whittington Center. That was in 2006 or 7 so I think that I'm qualified to speak about the Ken Howell I know. Ken is a master at pissing down your back and telling that it's raining. And a couple or three years ago I ask him about a rifle he had and wanted to know if he was interested in selling it. That went bad... Really bad... Bad enough that I'll never talk or deal with him ever again. Ken Howell= Buyer Beware!!!
Me too. I've been to his house and gone shooting with him. My desire has always been to see more wisdom from him, not less.
If he comes from an age when respect for one's opinion had to come from some reason other than the mere fact that one held the opinion...well, then that's good, not bad, right?
I've known Ken for a long time and bunked with him in the first get-together we had in Raton NM at the NRA's Whittington Center. That was in 2006 or 7 so I think that I'm qualified to speak about the Ken Howell I know. Ken is a master at pissing down your back and telling that it's raining. And a couple or three years ago I ask him about a rifle he had and wanted to know if he was interested in selling it. That went bad... Really bad... Bad enough that I'll never talk or deal with him ever again. Ken Howell= Buyer Beware!!!
Only knowledge I have of Dr. Ken Howell is from what ever posts he has made that I've read over the dozen years I've been a member here. I never saw much of any problem with him myself.
Something that always struck me as rather curious as well as quite sad, though, based on a good number of his own posts over the years concerning his seeming ever present financial struggles, is how someone with his writing skills, technical knowledge, obvious high intellect, and especially with his advanced level of education, could wind up with so little in retirement income.
[quote=joken2 Something that always struck me as rather curious as well as quite sad, though, based on a good number of his own posts over the years concerning his seeming ever present financial struggles, is how someone with his writing skills, technical knowledge, obvious high intellect, and especially with his advanced level of education, could wind up with so little in retirement income. [/quote]
This.
And if he's in such poor health why don't his children help him out?
I just cant fathom slobbering over someone the way folks at the fire do over him.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
I persist in seeing little shots taken at Ken Howell, mainly from the normal suspects.
Your opening line wasn't meant to stir the pot?
All you needed to post was the second and third sentences.
He no longer posts on the campfire, but has email available. Anyone wanting to ask him stuff personally, all you have to do is forward a request to me with your email address, and i will get it to him.
I have no idea who you are all talking about, but can't understand the thread being posted on every forum? How many places did you post it? 4? 5? Kind of odd.
Were you inundated with people trying to contact him? Did his friends all loose his contact info? New email or phone #? Does he no longer check PM's here? I don't recall a plethora of "Where's Howell" threads?
Seems an obvious bit of pot stirring to me. Not that I don't enjoy all the hand wringing and drama.
Something that always struck me as rather curious as well as quite sad, though, based on a good number of his own posts over the years concerning his seeming ever present financial struggles, is how someone with his writing skills, technical knowledge, obvious high intellect, and especially with his advanced level of education, could wind up with so little in retirement income.
This.
And if he's in such poor health why don't his children help him out?
I just cant fathom slobbering over someone the way folks at the fire do over him.
I've seen people who worked all their lives to build stuff for themselves and their kids lose it all due to healthcare concerns. In this day and age of the ACA, I don't know why somebody would even ask. Trying to stay alive costs a helluva lot of money once you have some health issues and most folks do if they live long enough.
As for his kids helping him out, maybe they do. Who knows? The medical industry, insurance bigwigs and government will drain as many families as they can when somebody gets down health-wise. Maybe his kids have their own kids to think of. If I get in such shape, I'll be wanting my kids to think of their own before me. Sad, but it's just how it is.
Something that always struck me as rather curious as well as quite sad, though, based on a good number of his own posts over the years concerning his seeming ever present financial struggles, is how someone with his writing skills, technical knowledge, obvious high intellect, and especially with his advanced level of education, could wind up with so little in retirement income.
This.
And if he's in such poor health why don't his children help him out?
I just cant fathom slobbering over someone the way folks at the fire do over him.
I've seen people who worked all their lives to build stuff for themselves and their kids lose it all due to healthcare concerns. In this day and age of the ACA, I don't know why somebody would even ask. Trying to stay alive costs a helluva lot of money once you have some health issues and most folks do if they live long enough.
As for his kids helping him out, maybe they do. Who knows? The medical industry, insurance bigwigs and government will drain as many families as they can when somebody gets down health-wise. Maybe his kids have their own kids to think of. If I get in such shape, I'll be wanting my kids to think of their own before me. Sad, but it's just how it is.
Lots of people on here really know it all.
Speaking for myself only, I don't know anything about Dr. Ken Howell's financial situation beyond what he has posted here himself.
Scott, you're in worse shape than I am, but that fact doesn't give me one wee sip of pleasure!
I've made it past eighty, 95% or more permanently disabled physically, totally dependent on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, and teetering rather shakily between home health care and full-time incarceration in some kind of imaginary-care facility. ('Tain't easy bein' senile! )
I think that the logical way to reform Social Security would be to limit it to the unfunctionably disabled whose other income is less than a certain legislated cut-off figure, and to distribute it evenly, not in proportion to former incomes.
My only monthly income is $750 from Social Security � not enough to get fat again.
And the best first move is to send a whole new team onto the field in November, next year, and hope that we survive until Inauguration Day 2013!
There are some absolutely shameless sunzabitches here. Wow.
The ironic bringing in of family, constantly, to the argument by some is stunning, as well. At least Blaine had the decency to just leave when he crossed that line so badly.
Something that always struck me as rather curious as well as quite sad, though, based on a good number of his own posts over the years concerning his seeming ever present financial struggles, is how someone with his writing skills, technical knowledge, obvious high intellect, and especially with his advanced level of education, could wind up with so little in retirement income.
This.
And if he's in such poor health why don't his children help him out?
I just cant fathom slobbering over someone the way folks at the fire do over him.
I've seen people who worked all their lives to build stuff for themselves and their kids lose it all due to healthcare concerns. In this day and age of the ACA, I don't know why somebody would even ask. Trying to stay alive costs a helluva lot of money once you have some health issues and most folks do if they live long enough.
As for his kids helping him out, maybe they do. Who knows? The medical industry, insurance bigwigs and government will drain as many families as they can when somebody gets down health-wise. Maybe his kids have their own kids to think of. If I get in such shape, I'll be wanting my kids to think of their own before me. Sad, but it's just how it is.
There are some absolutely shameless sunzabitches here. Wow.
The ironic bringing in of family, constantly, to the argument by some is stunning, as well. At least Blaine had the decency to just leave when he crossed that line so badly.
I simply am curious as to why his family isn't helping him out.I didn't disparage them in any way.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
I will repeat, perhaps i didn't word it properly the words were mine, not his. But i knew the mere mention of his name would bring out certain posts. The reason why i posted it on THREE forums is those are the forums I most go to, and there are people that only go to certain forums, not the general campfire. My choice again, not his. But i wanted people to see the request that frequented those forums. Heck, i should have left out part of the original post. Same thing would have happened anyway.
There are some absolutely shameless sunzabitches here. Wow.
The ironic bringing in of family, constantly, to the argument by some is stunning, as well. At least Blaine had the decency to just leave when he crossed that line so badly.
I simply am curious as to why his family isn't helping him out.I didn't disparage them in any way.
Some people get sandy manginas. Sheesh!
That's not really what I was speaking of, as it didn't have the usual caustic tone of some others. Ain't no sand up in hurra!
There are some absolutely shameless sunzabitches here. Wow.
The ironic bringing in of family, constantly, to the argument by some is stunning, as well. At least Blaine had the decency to just leave when he crossed that line so badly.
I simply am curious as to why his family isn't helping him out.I didn't disparage them in any way.
Some people get sandy manginas. Sheesh!
That's not really what I was speaking of, as it didn't have the usual caustic tone of some others. Ain't no sand up in hurra!
Got it. And for the record I agree with you in regards to slandering family.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Sorry that so many back door SOB's are offended. There are a WHOLE bunch of chickensheit 'Christians on this site. Enough to gag an Apostle.
Ken would have been better off posting that he missed some folks on the fire and if someone wanted his personal email address they should shoot him a pm with theirs and he would respond with his. No fuss, no muss, NO DRAMA!
Ken would have been better off posting that he missed some folks on the fire and if someone wanted his personal email address they should shoot him a pm with theirs and he would respond with his.
Except He does not post here anymore. If anyone wants to contact Him, either Ron or Myself will be glad to pass your email address along, if not then there is no need to reply to this post. miles
Ken would have been better off posting that he missed some folks on the fire and if someone wanted his personal email address they should shoot him a pm with theirs and he would respond with his.
Except He does not post here anymore. If anyone wants to contact Him, either Ron or Myself will be glad to pass your email address along, if not then there is no need to reply to this post. miles
Ken would have been better off posting that he missed some folks on the fire and if someone wanted his personal email address they should shoot him a pm with theirs and he would respond with his.
Except He does not post here anymore. If anyone wants to contact Him, either Ron or Myself will be glad to pass your email address along, if not then there is no need to reply to this post. miles
Ken would have been better off posting that he missed some folks on the fire and if someone wanted his personal email address they should shoot him a pm with theirs and he would respond with his.
Except He does not post here anymore. If anyone wants to contact Him, either Ron or Myself will be glad to pass your email address along, if not then there is no need to reply to this post. miles
This is from 2007, and it goes back much further than that. Ken got 'hurt' and the attacks began. I didn't start the crap 10 years ago but I do hold a grudge and always will
Originally Posted by oulufinn
Another poster has brought this subject up quite a few times in various threads, in an effort to bait Steelhead into something? & is really attempting to cast doubt on his character, in a very personal way, due to some alleged contact about this issue with Ken. This is kind of what the 'fire has become lately. Hope it improves, but I ain't holding my breath...
This is from 2007, and it goes back much further than that. Ken got 'hurt' and the attacks began. I didn't start the crap 10 years ago but I do hold a grudge and always will
Originally Posted by oulufinn
Another poster has brought this subject up quite a few times in various threads, in an effort to bait Steelhead into something? & is really attempting to cast doubt on his character, in a very personal way, due to some alleged contact about this issue with Ken. This is kind of what the 'fire has become lately. Hope it improves, but I ain't holding my breath...
You are a pathetic little boy with a big Internet personality.
This is from 2007, and it goes back much further than that. Ken got 'hurt' and the attacks began. I didn't start the crap 10 years ago but I do hold a grudge and always will
Originally Posted by oulufinn
Another poster has brought this subject up quite a few times in various threads, in an effort to bait Steelhead into something? & is really attempting to cast doubt on his character, in a very personal way, due to some alleged contact about this issue with Ken. This is kind of what the 'fire has become lately. Hope it improves, but I ain't holding my breath...
You are a pathetic little boy with a big Internet personality.
Congrats?
No need to repeat everything your wife tells you. I'm sure it's tough to compete with the cops, they love Vietnamese food...
I wouldn't know Howell if he ran over me in a top fuel dragster.
Everything I gathered in forming my opinion of him was gleaned here....via the printed post.
Old school knowledge. Said he "invented" schit. Expected respect. (Remember, most weekend hunters would be clueless to his research and/or "persona") .......(so if respect is/was "earned", it wasn't, at times, deemed worthy, because he could come across as a whiny, arrogant, egomaniac to those of us that didn't know his pedigree).
Quoted scripture and Ken Howell book passages as a sword to decapitate the offender into submission and/or "prove" how wrong, ungodly and stupid, said offender was.
You should listen and learn from him.....because he said so.
As Jim in Idaho alluded to yesterday, he could write a response to an offender that would gut, skin and quarter.....without ever naming the offender or incriminating the acuser. (Him)
I thought about deleting my earlier post about Ken out of respect of other members here that think of him as one of the last names in the glory days of Shooting and Hunting magazines. Does anyone know the story about why Bill Ruger turned on Ken? That would shed a lot of light on why Ken, is Ken.
But..... I don't expect perfection from my friends.
Once "Veneration of Elders" is no longer an important part of a culture, that culture is in a death spiral.It can only get worse, never better.
Because of Ken, we have witnessed that downward spiral in the "Campfire Culture". For instance,if you dislike me because of things I post on this forum, you have harmed neither yourself, me, or the forum. But, if you resent me because I'm 74 YO and refuse to die, you have harmed both yourself AND the forum.But you've done me no harm.
It's even more prevalent in the general population of this country, and THAT does not bode well for our future.
There it is....
My wife and I were received kindly into Ken's home in Quemado some years back and had a pleasant visit. Enjoyed his company too at the Quemado gathering a couple of years ago.
Got absolutely no complaints against the guy, and even if'n I did I'm of the forgiving sort, especially when it comes to material things. 'Twould be nice if we meet in Heaven some day.
As for family, you can pick your friends, but not your family. In my line of work I have interacted with thousands of parent/kid combinations, more'n enough to know that the degree of contact within a family in later years can be all over the map, justified or not. None of my business anyhow.
I hope that wool blanket is still keeping him warm.
But..... I don't expect perfection from my friends.
Once "Veneration of Elders" is no longer an important part of a culture, that culture is in a death spiral.It can only get worse, never better.
Because of Ken, we have witnessed that downward spiral in the "Campfire Culture". For instance,if you dislike me because of things I post on this forum, you have harmed neither yourself, me, or the forum. But, if you resent me because I'm 74 YO and refuse to die, you have harmed both yourself AND the forum.But you've done me no harm.
It's even more prevalent in the general population of this country, and THAT does not bode well for our future.
There it is....
My wife and I were received kindly into Ken's home in Quemado some years back and had a pleasant visit. Enjoyed his company too at the Quemado gathering a couple of years ago.
Got absolutely no complaints against the guy, and even if'n I did I'm of the forgiving sort, especially when it comes to material things. 'Twould be nice if we meet in Heaven some day.
As for family, you can pick your friends, but not your family. In my line of work I have interacted with thousands of parent/kid combinations, more'n enough to know that the degree of contact within a family in later years can be all over the map, justified or not. None of my business anyhow.
I hope that wool blanket is still keeping him warm.
Birdwatcher
I echo this. I am one of the ones that refuse to candy coat. I tell it the way I see it. Like it or NOT. I personally know of way too many "friendships" on various forums that really are not friendships in the first place. Just people trying to use/manipulate others for their own advantage. When this is discovered the result is usually a barrage of name calling. I have only made a few good friends in my entire life. Several are right here on the campfire. OTOH, some that I thought were are NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This "know it all" and "better than thou" attitude is turning our society rancid.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Sorry that so many back door SOB's are offended. There are a WHOLE bunch of chickensheit 'Christians on this site. Enough to gag an Apostle.
I love your sense of humor. That one made me howl out with laughter.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Except he did not list the email address.
I find these threads proclaiming "I am leave" to be self serving with little to no good achieved. If one is leaving, just leave without all the drama.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Except he did not list the email address.
I find these threads proclaiming "I am leave" to be self serving with little to no good achieved. If one is leaving, just leave without all the drama.
This may bring you some insight into Dr. Howell, and how he thinks:
Re: "Gun Writer" Backgrounds - 08/28/06 Posted by: Ken Howell
Solomon was never wiser than he was when he wrote (in Proverbs 27:2) "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." And a worthy additional advice is "don't publicize facts about yourself that others see as self-praise or bragging." The link between Proverbs 27:2 and Matthew 7:6 may be slight and ephemeral, but it's there.
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Except he did not list the email address.
I find these threads proclaiming "I am leave" to be self serving with little to no good achieved. If one is leaving, just leave without all the drama.
This may bring you some insight into Dr. Howell, and how he thinks:
Re: "Gun Writer" Backgrounds - 08/28/06 Posted by: Ken Howell
Solomon was never wiser than he was when he wrote (in Proverbs 27:2) "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." And a worthy additional advice is "don't publicize facts about yourself that others see as self-praise or bragging." The link between Proverbs 27:2 and Matthew 7:6 may be slight and ephemeral, but it's there.
I pity Ken. The Dr. everyone refers to is somewhat questionable. I have been close enough to his contemporaries in the industry to know some unsavory characteristics and reasons for his isolation from printed media.
How he handles himself in his life is his business, but he has singlehandedly built his reputation here, mostly through his own view of his greatness.
His plea recently for help to get a 1911 as he couldn't afford it, hoping for assistance from the good will of campfire members, was telling of his real position in the world of gun companies and the writing industry. I know many connected people that wouldn't have needed more than the slightest suggestion of guns or gear, and they would have UPS back up to their door full of boxes.
I pity Ken, wish him no ill will, but his deception of who and what he really is, is an injustice to the Campfire and its members...
We see others for who "WE" want them to be, not who they really are. Hard thing is when we find out they are not, we refuse to admit it to ourselves, and even if we do, we dare not tell others we were wrong, as it is us who looks the fool, not the one who fooled us.
Truth is, I like you, always have, I like your posts, your thoughts, and just you in general and the way you seem to be. I don't think I am wrong about you, I do think that Mr Howell has his ways, and they hurt people, and he justifies them with age and sickness, and that is wrong, deeply wrong. I am sorry that between the "picture" incident and the "Dr Howell" situation, that we were actually brought to negative words and feelings between each other, it is definitely a loss for me of friendship and fellowship.
In the end Dr. Ken Howell should not define ANY of our lives, or our opinions and feelings about others around us. Our opinions on him are just that, they are built by our own experiences with him. You did not walk in my shoes as I accumulated my first hand knowledge of Dr. Howell, nor was I with you as you accumulated yours, therefore we are each entitled to our own thoughts and feelings towards him.
As for Dr Howell being picked on, it seems strange that RoninPhx would have nothing more to do here on the Fire except to "I persist in seeing little shots taken at Ken Howell", and then out of the blue start posting all over this site and stirring up a pot of hell that he himself will pay for, one way or the other. RoninPhx has been the purveyor of little shots in his past postings, as many including myself have done here also, so I doubt he has any room to speak.
All in all, Dr. Ken Howell, is something different to everyone on this forum, many of those on this site adore him, I do not, but in no way, shape, or form, should that change my opinion of them as related to the way we are with each other.
Dr. Howells' life is his own, it does not contain me because of the manner in which he spoke to me and treated me, my life is my own, and never the twain shall meet again, and in truth my life is still rich, still strong, and still full of love for God and all who make up my circle of family and friends. I pray Dr. Howell has many positive things in his life so that his time on earth will have been worth the struggle we all face each day.
IIRC, Ken never completed his dissertation for a Ph.D. The school where he was conducting his studies went belly-up before he could complete it. Ken does have a Th.D., a doctoral degree in Theology which was based on his studies in hermeneutics. The Th.D. is from the same school that went belly-up. Don't recall the name of the school.
Here we go again with another testimonial but...I've never met Ron in person, but have interacted with him here on the fire for years. More so than I ever did with Ken. Ron is one of the most solid guys on the fire. He doesn't jump to conclusions or fly off the handle. Regardless of what anybody thinks of Ken, I'm quite sure that Ron did what he thought was right in this situation.
Here we go again with another testimonial but...I've never met Ron in person, but have interacted with him here on the fire for years. More so than I ever did with Ken. Ron is one of the most solid guys on the fire. He doesn't jump to conclusions or fly off the handle. Regardless of what anybody thinks of Ken, I'm quite sure that Ron did what he thought was right in this situation.
There is no need to defend RoninPhx, if you read what I wrote, as with all of us, his opinion on Dr. Howell is HIS opinion, his actions are HIS actions, the result is HIS result. I have no fight with RoninPhx, because I understand.
IIRC, Ken never completed his dissertation for a Ph.D. The school where he was conducting his studies went belly-up before he could complete it. Ken does have a Th.D., a doctoral degree in Theology which was based on his studies in hermeneutics. The Th.D. is from the same school that went belly-up. Don't recall the name of the school.
Here we go again with another testimonial but...I've never met Ron in person, but have interacted with him here on the fire for years. More so than I ever did with Ken. Ron is one of the most solid guys on the fire. He doesn't jump to conclusions or fly off the handle. Regardless of what anybody thinks of Ken, I'm quite sure that Ron did what he thought was right in this situation.
I've met Ron and Ken both.
I got the same email Ron got.
If he wanted to stir the pot, there was material in there that would have served THAT purpose if he had simply copied it.
In this instance, at least, it appears Ron was just doing something Ken asked of some of us.
IIRC, Ken never completed his dissertation for a Ph.D. The school where he was conducting his studies went belly-up before he could complete it. Ken does have a Th.D., a doctoral degree in Theology which was based on his studies in hermeneutics. The Th.D. is from the same school that went belly-up. Don't recall the name of the school.
So his doctoral degree is in bullchit?
There are several doctoral level degrees one can get. A ThD is a Doctorate of Theology. So Ken is a Dr. by virtue of his doctoral degree in Theology. He doesn't need a PhD to legitimately be called "Doctor Howell".
For those who may have experienced a multitude of hours with and for Ken, this thread can be VERY interesting - and revealing.
unfortunately it is, isn't it? all started to advise people of a guy's email address and a method of contacting him. And that's pretty much it. Perhaps i didn't word it properly.
You worded it exactly how Ken would, but of course it was a strictly harmless post only notifying people of his email address.
CLASSIC Ken Howell, passive/aggressive in your original post.
Except he did not list the email address.
I find these threads proclaiming "I am leave" to be self serving with little to no good achieved. If one is leaving, just leave without all the drama.
Please show my where Ken said he was leaving. I cannot find that post.
Here we go again with another testimonial but...I've never met Ron in person, but have interacted with him here on the fire for years. More so than I ever did with Ken. Ron is one of the most solid guys on the fire. He doesn't jump to conclusions or fly off the handle. Regardless of what anybody thinks of Ken, I'm quite sure that Ron did what he thought was right in this situation.
I've met Ron and Ken both.
I got the same email Ron got.
If he wanted to stir the pot, there was material in there that would have served THAT purpose if he had simply copied it.
In this instance, at least, it appears Ron was just doing something Ken asked of some of us.
I declined. It's proven to be a wise choice.
Strange that Dr. Howell can read and reply to emails, yet does not come to the Fire and do the same thing right here.
As for whatever material was in the emails, I hope whatever it was brings him comfort to have shared such with his group of friends.
I do not look for perfection in those I socialize with. I do not look for perfection in those I communicate with. If I did I would never again be able to talk to myself nor answer when I do.
If perfection is what is required here then why in the flying hell do any of you respond to me?
There are some lonely, sad little people on this site. This thread proves it and I ain't necessarily talking about Dr.Howell. It's amazing how many folks look for cyber friendships only to be disappointed. Perhaps the need for cyber friends is a result of folks lacking anything meaningful in their lives and a symptom of their real life failures. I have met some good folks thru this site and others but nothing close to bffs. That could be why all the friends I have are folks I've known for years. I think my "newest buddy" and I have been friends for over 10 years. My oldest friendship is almost 40 years old. Not bad for a guy that'll be 45 in a couple months. These real life friends have been "tested" through real experiences, real successes and real failures. The cyber world of bffs is an open invitation for disappointment. Imo
There are some lonely, sad little people on this site. This thread proves it and I ain't necessarily talking about Dr.Howell. It's amazing how many folks look for cyber friendships only to be disappointed. Perhaps the need for cyber friends is a result of folks lacking anything meaningful in their lives and a symptom of their real life failures. I have met some good folks thru this site and others but nothing close to bffs. That could be why all the friends I have are folks I've known for years. I think my "newest buddy" and I have been friends for over 10 years. My oldest friendship is almost 40 years old. Not bad for a guy that'll be 45 in a couple months. These real life friends have been "tested" through real experiences, real successes and real failures. The cyber world of bffs is an open invitation for disappointment. Imo
IIRC, Ken never completed his dissertation for a Ph.D. The school where he was conducting his studies went belly-up before he could complete it. Ken does have a Th.D., a doctoral degree in Theology which was based on his studies in hermeneutics. The Th.D. is from the same school that went belly-up. Don't recall the name of the school.
So his doctoral degree is in bullchit?
There are several doctoral level degrees one can get. A ThD is a Doctorate of Theology. So Ken is a Dr. by virtue of his doctoral degree in Theology. He doesn't need a PhD to legitimately be called "Doctor Howell".
Not exactly what S200 asked but thanks all the same.
IIRC, Ken never completed his dissertation for a Ph.D. The school where he was conducting his studies went belly-up before he could complete it. Ken does have a Th.D., a doctoral degree in Theology which was based on his studies in hermeneutics. The Th.D. is from the same school that went belly-up. Don't recall the name of the school.
So his doctoral degree is in bullchit?
There are several doctoral level degrees one can get. A ThD is a Doctorate of Theology. So Ken is a Dr. by virtue of his doctoral degree in Theology. He doesn't need a PhD to legitimately be called "Doctor Howell".
I do not look for perfection in those I socialize with. I do not look for perfection in those I communicate with. If I did I would never again be able to talk to myself nor answer when I do.
If perfection is what is required here then why in the flying hell do any of you respond to me?
What da fugg crazy elephants got to do with anything?
Hey blame my pappy. He said iffin I don't use one of them college words he paid fer at least once a week I get a kick in the azz. Since it's Thursday i figgered I better throw one out.
For someone who continually professed his Christianity he could sure turn nasty in a hurry, especially if you weren't one of his sycophants.
I've tried not to step in it with this thread, but that just nails it. I don't know what I did to offend Ken other than not praising him, but his posts to me were at best cold and dismissive.
I've been at the side of several family members and friends dying of cancer, certainly a painful experience and I'd say it's more likely to bring out a persons true ways rather then turn them into someone they are not.
Ken's treated people the way he has as long as he's been on the campfire.
For someone who continually professed his Christianity he could sure turn nasty in a hurry, especially if you weren't one of his sycophants.
You'd be surprised how physical ailments, especially chronic pain, can affect a person's mental state.
Or just brings out their real personality?
Unfortunately from things I have read and others I have spoken to, you are correct.
But then all of the repercussions are his, and his alone to bear, like all of us. What, and who were are, follows us in ways we never even fathom till they come home to roost.
Sad when you think not a one of us ever set out to be anything but a friend or at the least a good acquaintance.
You should see me face to face and then you could tell right off I am a big a$$hole. The worst kind. Fact is you should just put me on ignore for the betterment of your life.
You should see me face to face and then you could tell right off I am a big a$$hole. The worst kind. Fact is you should just put me on ignore for the betterment of your life.
Ken's treated people the way he has as long as he's been on the campfire.
Far longer than the Campfire; he had the same vituperative personality at the Shooters site before. After a couple of times of giving the benefit of the doubt, I chose to no longer communicate with him.
You should see me face to face and then you could tell right off I am a big a$$hole. The worst kind. Fact is you should just put me on ignore for the betterment of your life.
Nah. A scotch and a cigar will suffice!
I have a supply of both. Drop by and I will share my Christian a$$holeness.
What, and who were are, follows us in ways we never even fathom till they come home to roost.
Very insightful. I've been taking stock before it's to late to make a difference.
As I have been, life catches up with you early sometimes, and therein lies the chance to change what can be changed, make amends where they can be mended, and be better and stronger in ways in our lives where we were/are weak.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
But...but...but... he's MEAN!!!! (I don't know if he is or not, nor really care)
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I've got to sit at this computer for another half day. Lay it out there, don't hold back.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I've got to sit at this computer for another half day. Lay it out there, don't hold back.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
Ken did not start this thread but he solicited his apostles to do so. One was found willing and did so on several forums no less.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
Ken did not start this thread but he solicited his apostles to do so. One was found willing and did so on several forums no less.
It must hurt some folks the Ken has friends. I count myself one of them and I have noted sever people I know face to face and respect seem to feel the same way I do. Nobody ever said he was perfect, none of who like him think they are perfect. Perhaps you would be happier if you just used your ignore feature. Start with Ken and I and see if it doesn't get any better.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
Ken did not start this thread but he solicited his apostles to do so. One was found willing and did so on several forums no less.
It must hurt some folks the Ken has friends. I count myself one of them and I have noted sever people I know face to face and respect seem to feel the same way I do. Nobody ever said he was perfect, none of who like him think they are perfect. Perhaps you would be happier if you just used your ignore feature. Start with Ken and I and see if it doesn't get any better.
It must hurt some folks the Ken has friends. I count myself one of them and I have noted sever people I know face to face and respect seem to feel the same way I do. Nobody ever said he was perfect, none of who like him think they are perfect. Perhaps you would be happier if you just used your ignore feature. Start with Ken and I and see if it doesn't get any better.
What? And miss all the fun to be had on the Freak Forum?
I thought it notable that Ken's Christianity shines through even when he is lurking in cognito.
Isn't having apostles to do your bidding, while faux in abstentia , somewhat exactly Christ-like?
I am far from Amish, so shunning is not in my skill set.
Like I said, I know the man and I like him. If you don't then that is fine with me but it seems my liking him is not so fine with you. I give up on this topic.
Like I said, I know the man and I like him. If you don't then that is fine with me but it seems my liking him is not so fine with you. I give up on this topic.
Your narcissism needs the gain dialed back. My posts were not about you.
I knew Howell was a genuine azzhole the first time I read his blathering. I've got precious little use for azzholes no matter who they are or what they know.
What, and who were are, follows us in ways we never even fathom till they come home to roost.
Very insightful. I've been taking stock before it's to late to make a difference.
As I have been, life catches up with you early sometimes, and therein lies the chance to change what can be changed, make amends where they can be mended, and be better and stronger in ways in our lives where we were/are weak.
It is far from easy, but one day at a time.
As we get older, I've noticed that we get far less patient and generous with those who we think are wrong.
I have seen it in my grandfather, who was laid up for three years before he passed away and got quite nasty, my father and now myself. Right or wrong, when we encounter what we think is BS, we are more inclined to say so.
My, am I ever offending my old liberal classmates these days!
You should see me face to face and then you could tell right off I am a big a$$hole. The worst kind. Fact is you should just put me on ignore for the betterment of your life.
You are better than I. Mere words on a forum claim me as such.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
Ken did not start this thread but he solicited his apostles to do so. One was found willing and did so on several forums no less.
Ken solicited this????
kinda like I gather you believe there are monsters in your closet when you sleep also...
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
Life's too short people. Unplug, go sit in a tree-stand for a while or go toss a crappie jig.
Ken did not start this thread but he solicited his apostles to do so. One was found willing and did so on several forums no less.
Ken solicited this????
kinda like I gather you believe there are monsters in your closet when you sleep also...
now we get down to the real gist of it all...
Originally Posted by curdog4570
Originally Posted by EthanEdwards
Here we go again with another testimonial but...I've never met Ron in person, but have interacted with him here on the fire for years. More so than I ever did with Ken. Ron is one of the most solid guys on the fire. He doesn't jump to conclusions or fly off the handle. Regardless of what anybody thinks of Ken, I'm quite sure that Ron did what he thought was right in this situation.
I've met Ron and Ken both.
I got the same email Ron got.
If he wanted to stir the pot, there was material in there that would have served THAT purpose if he had simply copied it. In this instance, at least, it appears Ron was just doing something Ken asked of some of us.
kind of in the vein of Bill Clinton's Famous Quote....
" Well it depends on your definition of IF...."
Your kidding right ? Curdog4570 made the statement, no one added to it, detracted from it, or altered it in any way. Why would Curdog4570 say what he said knowing full well he would be under the hail of hatred if it wasn't true ?
He wouldn't, he is not a stupid man, he is an honest man.
The guy hasn't posted on here in a while, didn't start this thread, yet people still get worked up like a nest of red wasps at just the drop of his name. One Opinionated geriatric gets some of you foaming at the mouth without typing a single word.
This is the most telling post on this whole thread, and Ken solicited none of this unless there was a separate email to do so. I was party to the original email from Ken, and Ron posted about it before I got the chance. Y'all are all horned up about what Ron said, not anything that Ken said. miles
I don't know of Ken ever claiming to have had a PhD. Evidently he was close to getting one at some institution that went belly up. I think Ken said he has a ThD which is a Doctoral degree just like a PhD is. There are other Doctoral degrees too. Whether you respect a degree in religion or not, other disciplines can have their own doctorates. An EdD for instance, is a Doctorate in Education which is every bit as hard to earn as a PhD. I expect you could get a PhD in various subsets of education at different institutions. They're all doctoral degrees. A nearly unknown doctorate is a PsyD which is a Doctorate in Psychology. One can get a PhD in Psychology too. The PsyD is thought to be more clinically oriented than the more academic and research oriented PhD.
I don't know of Ken ever claiming to have had a PhD. Evidently he was close to getting one at some institution that went belly up. I think Ken said he has a ThD which is a Doctoral degree just like a PhD is. There are other Doctoral degrees too. Whether you respect a degree in religion or not, other disciplines can have their own doctorates. An EdD for instance, is a Doctorate in Education which is every bit as hard to earn as a PhD. I expect you could get a PhD in various subsets of education at different institutions. They're all doctoral degrees. A nearly unknown doctorate is a PsyD which is a Doctorate in Psychology. One can get a PhD in Psychology too. The PsyD is thought to be more clinically oriented than the more academic and research oriented PhD.
In the end, Ken has himself, and only himself, a self that he created, a self that he lives with everyday, a self that brought him to this point, a self that I am sure if he was to tell the truth, he would admit it is hell on earth.
There is not a degree on this earth, that could do him any good, in any way now. His life is what it is, he is who he is, and that takes no degree to realize.
19 pages... wow... Ken has always been good to answer any questions I have had. Whether or not you like him, it seems a bit childish to spend 19 pages gnashing your gums on him. From what people read here they could rightly claim all of you to be lots worse than the one you are bitching about.
His life is what it is, he is who he is, and that takes no degree to realize.
Sad, but true.
That is a blanket statement that fits us all. miles
Yes it does, but each of our individual circumstances are of our own making. Ken's loneliness and misery at this point in his life is of his own making.
19 pages... wow... Ken has always been good to answer any questions I have had. Whether or not you like him, it seems a bit childish to spend 19 pages gnashing your gums on him. From what people read here they could rightly claim all of you to be lots worse than the one you are bitching about.
I started off a bitch so why should I break with tradition now....
19 pages... wow... Ken has always been good to answer any questions I have had. Whether or not you like him, it seems a bit childish to spend 19 pages gnashing your gums on him. From what people read here they could rightly claim all of you to be lots worse than the one you are bitching about.
Pretty childish of you to add to the pages.
People already know I'm the worst. Not a concern for me.
19 pages... wow... Ken has always been good to answer any questions I have had. Whether or not you like him, it seems a bit childish to spend 19 pages gnashing your gums on him. From what people read here they could rightly claim all of you to be lots worse than the one you are bitching about.
Pretty childish of you to add to the pages.
People already know I'm the worst. Not a concern for me.
19 pages... wow... Ken has always been good to answer any questions I have had. Whether or not you like him, it seems a bit childish to spend 19 pages gnashing your gums on him. From what people read here they could rightly claim all of you to be lots worse than the one you are bitching about.
I don't know of Ken ever claiming to have had a PhD. Evidently he was close to getting one at some institution that went belly up. I think Ken said he has a ThD which is a Doctoral degree just like a PhD is. There are other Doctoral degrees too. Whether you respect a degree in religion or not, other disciplines can have their own doctorates. An EdD for instance, is a Doctorate in Education which is every bit as hard to earn as a PhD. I expect you could get a PhD in various subsets of education at different institutions. They're all doctoral degrees. A nearly unknown doctorate is a PsyD which is a Doctorate in Psychology. One can get a PhD in Psychology too. The PsyD is thought to be more clinically oriented than the more academic and research oriented PhD.
I don't know of Ken ever claiming to have had a PhD. Evidently he was close to getting one at some institution that went belly up. I think Ken said he has a ThD which is a Doctoral degree just like a PhD is. There are other Doctoral degrees too. Whether you respect a degree in religion or not, other disciplines can have their own doctorates. An EdD for instance, is a Doctorate in Education which is every bit as hard to earn as a PhD. I expect you could get a PhD in various subsets of education at different institutions. They're all doctoral degrees. A nearly unknown doctorate is a PsyD which is a Doctorate in Psychology. One can get a PhD in Psychology too. The PsyD is thought to be more clinically oriented than the more academic and research oriented PhD.
Physics PhD
Math PhD
Electrical Engineering PhD
Education EdD
Really? Same level of difficulty?
I was saying an EdD in Education was comparable to a PhD in Education. If you want to fight about which discipline or even college is harder, find somebody else.
I don't recall Ken ever using his doctoral title in anything on the forums, and I distinctly recall him asking people to NOT address him as Dr. Howell as he felt it was giving people the impression his degree was relevant (to the subject).
![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v133/TLEEF/Miscellaneous/Kenwith22.jpg)
Too bad it isn't so easy to figure out. Unfortunately, that ain't it anymore than one can determine who the elders are based on their wisdom. (Some might not live long enough. 
)
![[Linked Image]](http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j89/Lynn_D_1961/Ken%20Howell_zpswn0q6bap.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j89/Lynn_D_1961/Solomon_zpshjnl6qut.jpg)
