I am thinking this might be a great little round. As Mule deer pointed out a while back it is very similar to the 250 savage AI which is one of my favorite rounds.Very efficient etc.Thinking either buy the Ruger or do a custom build....what does everyone think?

I thought about it , then decided to get the 6.5x55, seat bullet out farther as no restrictions of the short action, Lapua brass readily available, a bit more velocity, proven winner at least back in the day

It is neither flashy or new, not a magnum, not based on a 30-06 case and therefore not as well known in North America. The europeans however know better. It is a solid performer on game from coyote size to european moose sized animals. My uncle has used his sporterized M-96 to great effect on more deer than I can remember and planted his fair share of elk as well. Barrel life is high, it is forgiving on the reload bench, eating 4064, 4831, RL22, Varget and almost anything in between you can put in it with aplomb. Good numbers on loading per pound of powder and mild recoil mean you can shoot it often enough to be comfortable and proficient with it. Bullet selection is good, especially with the popularity of 6.5's on the target circuit. High SD's and BC's make for accurate rounds that penetrate and deliver a higher than weight class punch. There are very few ways for one to fault the Swede, I won't bother looking for them.


Copied from another sight.

Furprick,

Way to highjack a thread.

The OP asks about the 6.5 Creedmoor, and all you do is post a commercial for the 6.5 swede.

Great, I'm glad you like your Swede.It's a fine round.

Now for some advantages of the 6.5 Creedmoor..

1)Equal velocity to the 6.5 swede(comparing factory loads)

2)Fits in a True Short(.308 length) action.

The only way a 6.5 Swede can be loaded to beat 6.5 Creedmoor ballistics is to exceed the maximum load data published by the powder/bullet companies.

The bottom line is that the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .260 do everything a Swede does in a true short action.

This is an article by a guy who spent a fair amount time comparing the various 6.5s.
6.5s

And here is more on the Creedmoor. Creedmoor


I don't own one, but they have definitely caught my eye. Certainly the 6.5s are all close enough to me, that the package would probably drive my final decision. Given equal rifle packages it would be a tough call between the Creedmoor and the 260 Rem.

Didn't mean to HiJack the thread and was not aware of your blood - caffiene level was out of wack, insert smiley face here, just wanted to point out a comparative alternative. reload manuals take into account the the very old fire arms that are in this caliber. My last 6.5x55 in a Rem 700 ran 130 gr bulets at 2900fps.................just sayin'

Just trying to help out the OP with his original question, which asked nothing about the Swede.

And ,BTW Hornday 129g 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo will match what you got in your m700 Swede..

The Sweede more like has the capacity that would equal the 260 AI.

Both the Cred and the Sweede driven to the same pressure and barrel length, speed will favor the Sweede.

The problems is NOBODY in the reloading industry recommends loading the Swede to the same pressures as the 6.5 Creedmoor or the .260 rem..

Nobody.

And that is because of all the old m96 rifles floating around.

IN SAMMI spec loads, the Swede is capable of doing no more than a 6.5 Creedmoor of the .260 rem. It's an irrefutable fact.

I've owned several .260 Rem, 6.5x55, 6.5 Rem Mag's and the 6.5 Creedmoor.

The Creedmoor is a cool cartridge that is really nothing more than a .250 Savage AI. It takes a long 24" - 26" barrel for the Creedmoor to equal a long action 22" Sweede, so there's no free lunches with the Creedmoor.

I would like a Model Seven with a 20" barrel in the Creedmoor, it would make a sweet deer rifle....

I think a 6.5 Creedmoor built on 700SA with a blind magazine and say, a 23in bbl in a lightweight stock, Mcmillan edge?, would be a very nice walkaround rifle.
Don't overpower it with optics, a 3-9 or 2.5-10x would be a good match.

...............In a video posted on here, Wayne Van Zwoll used a 6.5 Creedmoor to take a bull elk at 603 yards using a 129 gr Horn SST.

Not too shabby for a little 6.5mm.

Jim, like who cares.

99.5% of builds are going to be on a modern action that is more than capable and able to go 65K.



Exactly.

Only a complete idiot would recommend gross overloads way past book maximums for the 6.5 Swede.

It's great to see you are one of them.

Since we have a 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington and 6.5x55 in the house, a few months ago I measured the water capacity of fired cases in each, with a 120-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip at the maximum SAAMI overall length. These were the results:

6.5 Creedmoor--48.4 grains (Hornady brass, 2.825" OAL)
.260 Remington--49.0 grains (Remington brass, 2.800 OAL)
6.5x55 Swedish--49.8 grains (Norma brass, 3.15" OAL)

This means there's about a 3% difference in power capacity between the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 6.5x55. This means about a less than 1% difference in potential muzzle velocity, according to the 1/4 rule. Of course, the individual brand of brass would also have a slight effect on powder room, but not enough to matter.

This is backed up by result from my rifles. In my custom FN Mauser 6.5x55 with a 21" Lilja barrel 3000 fps can be reached with a 120-grain bullet, even with the bullet seated all the way out to 3.15" OAL, and its easy to get 3100 from the 26" barrel of my Ruger Hawkeye 6.5 Creedmoor. So barrel length would be more of a factor on velocity than anything else.

Anybody picking any one of these over another would have to make the decision on factors other than potential velocity--brass availability, historical prejudice, or whatever.

But John..

All one has to do is overload the 6.5 Swede to 65,000 PSI and your points are moot...LOL

If they ever make one of these 70 Compacts in 6.5 Creedmore I'm going to be all over it. It would make a neat light kicking all arounder:
http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535126

Somehow I doubt a 6.5 of any kind will be offered in the Winchester compacts. It would be nice, but I doubt it.

The rifle is already chambered in the 7mm-08.

With 120-140g slugs,that's a pretty good second choice.

In a modern action there is no reason you cannot run the 6.5x55 at modern pressures. There is nothing magic about the steel and brass used in 260s or Creedmoors that allow them to be used at higher pressures than can be safely used in the 6.5x55.

I get 3075 FPS with a 120 grain pill in my 6.5x55, at measured sub 60 KPSI peak pressures, though I usually back that down to 3050. There is nothing about this that is any more dangerous than shooting a 30-06 or 270 at the same pressure. I just have to be careful to keep the modern ammunition away from my lovely milsurp Swede. Since I intend to shoot all my ammunition before I die, and don't easily confuse the two lots of ammunition, I don't see a lot of risk in that.

Lapua lists a very similar N560 load on their web page.

All that said, I think the Creedmoor is a very interesting round with a lot of potential. The minor difference in MV is small potatoes. I think I would be quite happy shooting with any of the three 6.5 offerings. I chose the 6.5x55 because I had an intermediate length action, and already had the dies for 6.5x55.

As a 6.5 nut ,I find that the 6.5-06 ,6.5 Creedmoor,260 rem and the swede are the same animal in a modern rifle built to stand 65m psi. Its like fleas argueing over who owns the dog. I have 6.5s of all flavors and have shot benchrest with all and hunted with most. If you have a Black Rifle , go Creedmoor or 260. If you have a Mountain rifle in mind go with the same. I prefer the 6.5-06 ,6,5-284 or the Swede for Long range hunting . Don't forget the 6.5 Jap and the 6.5-257 Roberts. The awesome 6.5 STW will amaze most folks like the 264 mag in its day. My 6.5 Swede Benchrest rifle with heavy 26" Krieger barrel on a 700 action can push a 140 gr Match king at 2950fps with no signs of pressure. I loaded some 140 Game kings to use when I'm in a shooting House (tower) with a very heavy load of REL 22, match CCI primers and Lapua brass . They shot 3 shot groups at 5/16 " at 300 Yards------Game Kings. Keep a very open mind when Looking at any 6.5 They all are just AMAZING.

Stupid you, you should qualify that by saying in a 98 Mauser.

........

Looks like I'm in good company.

But Jim..

You could say that about any cartridge, not just the Sweede.

You would make a great straw man.

If there is a more perfecter New England deer rifle, I don't know what it is.......

And you make a great moron.

Those who expound on overloading cartridges often are.

And, last I checked even 60,000 PSI was a GROSS pressure overload for a Swede based on SAMMI specs.

Is that the best you can do?

Start calling people names after proving yourself a fool, that you obviously don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

My take on the 6.5 Creedmore is that Hornady needed a new round to come out with one month so they re-invented the 260 REM. It's no better, or worse, than the 260 and is just splitting the popularity of 6.5's in a way that neither one of them will ever be real popular. If there was only one it might stand a chance but there isn't enough market for two of them to succeed.

One of Hornady's main selling points was that there wasn't really good match grade 260 cases available. Wouldn't it have just been easier to make good 260 cases?

So why are you telling me?

Tell that to John Barsness.

Would be perfect in the south east as well. Especially in a .250-3000.

Why should I tell that to MR Barsness? He does not agree with your either.

Go back and read his posts here. The top end load data he recommends adhears to SAMMI specs. Which are nowhere NEAR 60,000PSI for the 6.5 swede.

And, using that data, he only MATCHED 6.5 Creedmoor velocites given the same length barrels, he did not exceed them. Which was pretty much the point of his post.

The 60,000 PSI crap was posted by someone else here .Perhaps you should ask him on out on a date....

No, Jim, the top end OVERALL CARTRIDGE LENGTH I used to measure case capacity was SAAMI.

I load the 6.5x55 to much higher pressures than SAAMI, using Nosler, Norma or Lapua data.

Why would Nosler publish load data higher than SAMMI specs?

And even given the higher than spec loads, it does not appear that your 6.5 swede loads- barrel length being equal- really outperformed the slightly smaller cased rounds.

The answer to your second question: That was my point. All three rounds have similar case capacity, so will perform similarly when loaded to similar pressures.

As for Nosler's data, I can only guess that they wanted to provide handloader's with data suitable for modern rifles, given the 6.5x55's recent popularity. Their technical information says, "These loads are intended for use only with new firearms in good condition."

Well the reason why I asked, is I did not seen see any Nolser data posted that approached 3,000FPS with a 120g bullet.

http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/6.5x55mm-Swedish-Mauser-120-Grains.aspx

Why have data for 45-70s in different actions? Because people are smart sometimes and use the correct info with the correct action.

Now, back to the OP. If you build on a 700 SA go with an extended box magazine and 260 Rem. Otherwise buy a new Savage or Ruger in either chambering and kill something.

Not too hard to figure out, just minutae that gets in the way of decisions. Don't over analyze if you aren't going to shoot over 500 yards, either chambering will do.

Jim,

Nosler doesn't list all their manual data on the website. Otherwise nobody would buy the manual.

Here's the max data for the three fastest loads for the 120 Ballistic Tip from the manual:

50.5 AA3100--2974 fps
47.0 H4350--3000 fps
48.5 RL22--3002 fps

I list the AA3100 load because Nosler used a 23" barrel for the 6.5x55 data. With the standard SAAMI 24" barrel that load would also get right around 3000 fps.

Lapua/Vihtavuori Data. Scroll down to 120 grain bullets.

You cannot get close to 3056 FPS with SAAMI pressures. But, there it is from a major player in the reloading business.

JB pretty well sums up my view: There is not enough difference in the three cartridges to matter a dime's worth. Which you use is a matter of taste, convenience, and the shooting platform you like.

You guys are just wasting your time.

Jim doesn't understand.

So......would it be OK to use 260Rem load data for the Swede? This of course would be in a modern rifle .

Seems like a fun and user friendly round. Anyone know who's gonna be making factory ammo for it and who will be chambering rifles for it? (and I hope they get em twisted right)

Thx
Dober

No, because the case capacities are different and pressure depends on volume. The 6.5x55 has a little more case capacity, so 260 loads in a 6.5x55 should produce slightly lower pressures and MVs. But if you can measure your pressures, you should be able to safely exceed the 260 MV by a little bit.... not much. As I said, not quite a dime's worth.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-65Creedmoor.htm

Thx, but ug cough barf..grin

I was thinking something along the lines of a 700 SPS or Youth I could drop in a Ti take off and or a Montana.

Dober

Yes, Mark, that would be sweet!

1:8 for the long stuff. Ruger and Savage rifles. Even Savage is 1:8 for 260 Rem now. Break out the Scenars and VLDs. I wouldn't hold my breath for Remmy to do anything right.

I think Savage has 6 rifles chambered in 260 this year. Ranging from 22" lightweight to LRPV heavy weight.

Even a T3 would make me happy, as I am so easy to please.

Dober

I talked to Rem at the NRA show about the 260 and they said "no way" a 1/8 would ever be in the works.

Hmm marketing people versus shooters..

Dober

I do understand.

And I can read reloading/pressure data perfectly well.

Like I said, go to the Nosler site and try to fin ANY Data for a 6.5 that even comes within 100 FPS of 3,000 FPS with a 120g bullet. Same with Hodgdon.

I even provided the Nosler link- which you conveniently ignore because it does not suit your purpose of promoting gross overloads to the unknowing..

Also, only a dumbphuck would take YOUR advice and redline rifles and brass to 65,000PSI with everyday loads.

LOL!

You're a funny man.

I'd go for a 223 twisted 1:8 to shoot 75 and 80gr Amax from a 20-22" barrel, but who would want that? I know Rem wouldn't as the 9 twist is of limited access in their rifles.

Follow the link previously given to see Lapua 6.5x55 reloading data with a 120 grain bullet at 3056 FPS.

But, of course, what would the Finns know about the 6.5x55?

Now Jimmy, don't get all bent out of shape. Calm down man, life is good.

The Ackley shooters do it every day.

Even the 6.5x55 BJ Ackely shooters do, ask Bob Jourdan.
He sent me his load data.

Not as much as Jimmy!

Typical of Ackley improved shooters. The only way they can see any REAL velocity gains is by shooting gross overloads compared to standard versions.

I could care LESS what another crackpot such as yourself promotes in the way of unsafe, unpressure tested overloads.

And people blow guns up and wreck brass in a few firings all the time running those pressures as well.

Maybe we'll all get lucky and you will blow up one of your rifles at 65K and we will no longer have to see the drivel you post promoting gross overloads...

So you're saying Lapua publishes unsafe, untested loads?

Are they using American powders?

The Finns are loading the 6.5 hot like they load the 9mm hot.

Big deal.

Still does not mean they are safe SAMMI spec loads.

And I bet it is still not 60K PSI

I was referring to SU35s example of the 6.5 x55BJ examples..

But, since your mentioned it, the Lapua VV data shows NO pressures and was fired in a 26.5" barrel.

This discussion was started when SU-35 claimed the Swede Could BEAT the 6.5 creedmoor.

Even with HOT Europoean loads, it will not do that given equal length barrels.

The only way you could to it is to grossly OVERLOAD it. Which is what SU-35 has been promoting the whole time on this thread. thus his mention of 65 PSI loads..

No you weren't, liar.

That was after the fact.

So... wait a minute.

Your challenge to us was to show a published load that came within 100 FPS of 3000.

JB cited some. Somehow those don't count?

I showed you one from Lapua, and somehow that doesn't count either? Even if you dial it back 50-60 FPS to account for the difference in barrel length?

Quite independent from Lapua, I instrumented my 6.5x55 and came up with a load that shoots 6 FPS slower than Lapua at pressures below 60 KPSI. Somehow that doesn't count?

Tough audience!



I saw one of those once. It wasn't nearly as bad an experience as you seem to think.

Go back and read the above.

Your not lying. You just really don't know what the [bleep] you are talking about.

When discussing apples to oranges- the 6.5 Swede, the .260 and the 6.5 Swede, given EQUAL barrel lengths, the Swede will not outdo either of the shorter cases. Even with hot European loads.

You can keep promoting your 65K PSI overload, Ackley Improved horseochit smokescreen B.S. all you want , but those are the facts.

A already concede that. Fine . With Hot European data using non- US made powders there are loads published by Lapua that run 3,000FPS. Fine.

With those same weight bullets the 6.5 creedmoor will match that in equal length barrels. Which is something ELSE J.B. also pointed out.

And all this has what to do with a 6.5 Creedmoor??

Carry on...

LOL! man, you are on a roll tonight jimmy.

In a modern action, given equal barrel length and equal pressures
the Sweede with it's larger capacity will indeed
out speed the other two.

Quite a few non-US made powders used in ALL guns.

Yes it will, by a small margin, and with no more danger than firing commercial 30-06 or 270 ammunition.

Why are you comparing two Swedes and one 260???????? What was the question again??

Goodnight Jimmy,

I've got an early flight to Kona in the a.m.

Aloha buddy!

Theres NO way to prove the "equal pressure" pressure claim. Because none of the hotter Swede European loads show pressure data. For all we know, those 6.5 Swede loads could already equal the pressures the .260 and 6.5 creedmoor are loaded to(about 60,00PSI).

And, those loads are SO far beyond American loads that have solid pressure data, you are literally flying blind hotrodding a Swede. Which is really a stupid thing for anyone who does not have lab quality pressure testing equipment. Wild ass guessing should not be part of load workup. It's sad folks like you promote such stupidity for a few extra FPS.

The next thing you will probably do is try to tell me the Swede can push 140g slugs as fast as a .270WCF with equal pressures.. I've heard that BS before and that is pure fantasy as well..

What a thread!

I'm thinking the 6.5 Creedmoor would make a damned adequate Canadian whitetail round!

No they bounce off..

Damned new Hornady Interlocks...

As JB stated Nosler 6 on page 226 shows 2 loads using American powder reaching 3000 with a 120gr NBT in a 23" Lilja tube.

H4350 and RL19 are 3k and over.

AA3100 is at 2974 and that in a 23" tube.

I for one trust Nosler to publish data which isn't going to kill me or my modern actioned rifle.

But then I load my 7x57 hotter than 51Kpsi and my 8x57 a hell of alot hotter than 35Kpsi.

Yep, I realize those loads exist. I have no problem with them.

My issue is with folks(SU-35) who claim you can push the Swede even faster than that just because the rifle it's chambered in will take 65 K PSI before it comes loose.

All that said if I were using a long action I'd skip right past the 6.5x55 and chamber for the 6.5-06.

No stinkin' SAAMI gobbledygook for that one!

If I wanted a short action I'd go with the .260 Rem.

N,

I have not seen a thing you've posted on this thread I disagree with.

SU-35 is milquetoast compared to some of the pressures Clarkma is running!

He posts that he pushes 90K+ with 25-35 brass in K98's and 88k+ in .243!!

He's an engineer and he defends his loads as safe but those ones are too high for me.

Those .243 pressures are crazy. I think more .243s have been blown up in the last 50 years than any other bolt action round?

Note to Jimmy: the only US made powders are Winchester and a few of the Hodgdon and Alliant ball numbers.

Don't let the facts bother you, though. FWIW, Dutch.

But I do.

And I just built another one from my own design.

Wow! Jim, take a chill pill! If you didn't have 3000 posts I'd call you a Troll just for your "Arguments" sake. It seems to me you're standing your ground just to argue. Long winter? Go out and shoot something.

Now, with all that's been said I had a chance to look very seriously at the 6.5 CM. Good round. As good as the others, velocity wise. If one does not reload, it would be a very good choice but then I shoot 2-3 factory rounds a year, usually to compare my reloads. Short action, IMHO = 6.5 CM, 260 Rem and my favorite 6.5x47. Long action, IMHO = 6.5x55, 6.5-06, 6.5x57/257, etc.

As previously mentioned, it boils down to action length, brass preferences/availability, likes/dislikes, "cool" factor, rifle availability, price and budget, etc. I shoot monthly tactical/sniper matches with a few guys who shoot the 6.5 CM. Winners and losers are not measured by velocity but by ability.

Oh, and I can push my 6.5x47 with 140's and Rel 17 to over 2900, way over, with zero pressure signs. One has to know what they are doing, have the right tools and be willing to experiment. Jim, stay away from this stuff. It's HOT and you're NOT!

Alan

Mark,

Ruger also makes a sporter-weight Hawkeye with a 26" barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. This is the model I bought at Capital Sports just before hunting season. It weighs around 8-1/4 pounds with scope, but the barrel could easily be bobbed considerably and still work fine as a hunting rifle. In fact I may do that with mine--and then again I may not.

The little round is very impressive (especially in the 26" barrel) and the Hawkeye is one of the most accurate OTB factory rifles I've ever owned. The first 5-shot group with factory ammo (Hornady) was .63" at 100 yards. Barrel twist is 1-8".

I fooled around with several handloads, using bullets from 100 TTSX's to 140 VLD's, and the rifle just kept grouping well. I finally pretty much settled on the 120 Ballistic Tip at just under 3100, using a max load of Hunter powder. It shoots real well and kills stuff too!

So you think modern actions will come unglued at 66,000 PSI?
Here is another question. What did Roy Rogers say was the first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole?

I want some of what ever you are smoking.

Dude ,most powders are non USA made!!!!!

The thing about it is is that Jim is absolutely correct if one follows SAAMI pressure guidelines.

There are legitimate reasons why SAAMI limits the 6.5x55 to 51Kpsi.

Loading that cartridge to 65K IS an overload according to SAAMI.

Will modern actions handle loads of that level perfectly well? Yes they will. Is there some risk of damage to older, weaker actions if one of these 65K loads inadvertently make it's way into one? Yes there is a risk of that.

Yep, relatively few powders are American-made. Those that are come from St. Marks in Florida, but most smokeless powders sold here are made in Australia, Canada, Israel, Sweden and Switzerland, to name a few countries off the top of my head.

It is good for a person to know their limitations especially if they don't know why they are what they are. If they can realize that they can even grow.

If exceeding SAAMI guidelines is acceptable where does one draw the line?
How about the 88K .243 loads that Clarkma shoots?

How about the 90K+ loads for 25-35 based wildcats?

He shoots them both and more and he's neither dead nor is he blowing up rifles presumably.

JB,

I'm sure the Creedmoor is fantastic, as are all the other 6.5s, but I would love to have a Hawkeye Standard with a 26-in. barrel in .270!

Went to Ruger's site hoping they might make one, but all they show is a 22-in. .270, and the spec sheet shows it weighing 8 lbs. while the sheet on the 26-in. says it weighs 7.

Your rifle's scoped weight jibes with the Creedmoor sheet so
I'm wondering if they've got a typo on the .270 sheet.

OP, sorry for the minor thread jack!

Good Lord, what to say about all of this. I don't shoot a Creedmoor, since I have a perfectly good 6.5 x 55 in a Sako hunter that I bought twenty or so years ago. It dose not matter a wit, a 120gr 6.5 mm bullet launched at 2900 to 3000 fps is for all purposes a pocket 270. You will drop deer and elk sized game till the end of time or they ban guns all together. While I don't think I will run out and buy one anytime soon, its a good thing that hornaday dose this sort of stuff, since they started making 9.3 x 62. And a Ruger Safari so chambered would float my boat in more ways than one.

You view doing 56 mph in a 55mph zone the same as doing 88 mph in a 55 mph zone and thus extrapolate doing one is same as the other? Use your head man and ask the same of others.

Speaking of heads let Clarkma worry about his! If he touting 88-90K+ loads as safe and common you have some ground to speak up me thinks.

There are many 60K+ SAAMI cartridges you know. Perhaps pointing out the lack of 88-90K same would be a good start.

Idiots drive 90MPH in 65 MPH zones every day without caring about the risk to those around them and themselves. So do some handloaders with regards to the loads they use. I simply chose not to be one of them.

Grown men behaving like a meathead teenager with a souped up car they can't control on the highway just for the sake of speed is not exactly "growth", IMHO.

I guarantee that you nor anyone else posting on this thread with the possible ecxeption of JB has access to accurate pressure testing equipment for his hand loads. Which is the whole purpose for safe book data with built in safe margins.

My actual life experience 20 years ago working with Oehler strain gauge system showed me that the conventional home methods of gauging pressure pressure( case head expansion and primer behavior ) is crude at best. It's also not consistent from rifle to rifle. I helped a writer friend test one of the Oheler units one summer using his usual max loads in about two dozen personal rifles.

He thought they all were safe and got some eye opening results, particularly in warmer temperatures. He was/is a meticulous hand loader and it was a very good example of why component companies build safety margins into their load data.

You mean your actual life experience of someone else s actual life experience of that someone else's own actual worked up loads. Some drive 67 in a 65.

No the actual testing of the ammo was MY experience. I was there doing the testing right along side him for several weeks.. Even help load a lot of the ammo he used in test in about 25 different rifles. I also had access to all his journals and load data.

The same writer went on to use that same equipment working up pressure data for a monthly cartridge review column for a major gun magazine which he wrote for about 10 years. He used to red line a lot of his handloads. Once he got his hands on some accurate pressure testing equipment, not so much.

It was a good of illustration stacking stacking tolerances in certain rifle /load combos and the need for safe pressure margins. It's sad you refuse to acknowledge that reality.

Thanks to all for the feedback. My reason for the interest in the 6.5 creedmoor is the longer I play around with rifles and cartridges the more I am attracted simple efficient rounds that will shoot typical hunting bullets at 2800-3000 fps. It's all kind of silly....I have a .270 Sako A7 that shoots 130 grainer's at around 3000 that is a nice light gun and shoots well under an inch, I also a nice custom 7mm-08 that will shoot 120 BT the same way...and the same 3000 fps also have a 280 ai that will do it with a 140BT....not sure why I need a 6.5 creedmoor...just seemed like a nice round.......I must be what Mule Deer calls a rifle looney.....I do think everyone can calm down a bit....and thanks to all for the feedback, I really blame Mule Deer for this affliction I have...please stop writing about rifles and cartridges that make sense....its all your fault! PS.... forgot to mention I bought a Marlin XS7 in 7mm-08 for my son, put a 3x9x40 monarch ucc on it.....guess what bought some 130 grain speer btsp....plan to load them to 2800-2900 fps.....the beat goes on........Goodshot

No, I was asking a question. Hence the question mark!

Use your head man!

Why can't I load (6.5x55) to 260Rem levels? Considering a slightly large case and a modern bolt action rifle. Doesn't make sense not to.

Speer #13 goes a little higher than that on charge weight but the rifle used was a 22" 77MkII so the velocities are a little less. In the forward to the 6.5x55 they state pressures "up to 50,000 cup for use in modern rifles" (about 58,000 or so psi).

With the 120gr Hotcore:
N160 48.0gr @ 2895fps
IMR4831 49.0gr @ 2886fps
IMR4350 47.0gr @ 2884fps
Re22 50.5gr @ 2882fps

You can of course.

It has been stated many times in this thread and loads of that level are even published by major component manufacturers.

The point Jim made is that these loads exceed SAAMI pressure specs for that cartridge. These SAAMI specs were promulgated in deference to the many century old and somewhat less strong actions chambered for the cartridge.

In a modern action these over SAMMI pressure loads are perfectly safe.

The thing is-It's possible the top end 6.5 Swede data shown here (Lapua etc) already is loaded to the same pressures as the .260, etc The top end velocities with Swede loads are the same as the 6.5 Creed and .260.

1-2 grains more of real powder capacity for the Swede does not mean much with every powder used.

Furprick,

You go right ahead and load up that 55 to 260 levels. I'll even stand right besides you while you touch'em off.

Alan

Jim, and everybody else interested....

I have a little more time today, and can write a little more complete reply to some of the issues you raise. Please take them as kindly as they are meant.

First, I am probably the most conservative, safety conscious reloader you know. My degree is in physics, and my career is in Six Sigma. I'm probably the only guy you know who has done formal Measurement System Analysis on his test equipment. I'm also the guy that wrote an article for Varmint Hunter a while back that I think pretty much puts PRE and CHE to rest, on a sound mathematical basis.

I do not support loading to unsafe pressures. As the amount of physical stress you apply to a system goes up linearly, the failure rate goes up exponentially. I want my stuff to last, and I value all parts of my body.

So, with all that said:

SAAMI lists the MAP of the 25-06 at 63,000 PSI, the 270 at 65,000 PSI, the 280 at 60,000, and the 30-06 at 60,000. Yet these are all the same cartridge case, made from the same materials, but with different necks. Is there any real physical reason why there should be any difference in the pressure they will bear? The answer is no. The gas cannot read the headstamp. Any cartridge and chamber with the same geometry and materials will bear the same pressure.

Just my opinion, but I think 65,000 PSI is more than is healthy for the 270. I note that most reloading manuals stay respectfully short of that limit, so I think I am in good company. It's not so much that you risk catastrophic failure as that you risk a stuck case which is a real nuisance if you're trying to get off a second shot.

I usually limit my loads to around 58,000 PSI. Any cartridge with 30-06 geometry at the head of the cartridge will bear this pressure in a modern bolt action rifle. Period.

The head geometry of the 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57 allows them to tolerate this same pressure. In a modern firearm, you can load any of these cartridges to that much pressure with absolutely no more danger than shooting commercial 30-06 or 270 ammunition.

SAAMI pressures are only specified at 70 F. In a 30-06 size case, with most powders, shooting on a hot day is equivalent to adding 2-3 grains of powder to the load. Apparently, there is enough margin in the design to allow it, because people do it all the time with adverse effect. I strongly recommend NOT trying to use up this safety margin by loading hotter.

As you have correctly pointed out, the trick is in knowing how much pressure you are running. Fortunately, that is not beyond the reach of most of us.

If you are willing to be conservative, and allow yourself some safety margin, you can simply look at the starting load pressures and maximum pressures and calculate the PSI per grain for a cartridge operating near maximum. I hold that it is quite safe to use that approach to calculate loads in the 55,000 PSI range for the 6.5x55, 7x57, and 8x57. That leaves you several KPSI of safety margin. (Disclaimer: Posted for comparison and education only.)

A better approach is to instrument your rifle and do your own pressure measurements. The gauge factor on a cheap strain gauge is known within .5%, and good ones within .2%. The gain of the amplifier can easily be found to within .1% with a $50 tool, and the voltage applied to the bridge is easily controlled to within .1%. So if you're looking for the accuracy of the microstrains the system reports, you're good to within better than a percent. I can't make any statement about exactly how good the Hoop Strain equation is, but it has been around for a long time and is well accepted. That's the tool you need to convert microstrains to PSI.

Ken Oehler did give me a pile of his data to analyze. It was from a barrel instrumented with two strain gauges and two piezoelectric transducers. The correlation between the strain gauge systems and the piezoelectric systems was astonishingly good, well over 99%. Strain gauges and SAAMI standard piezoelectric systems produce the same result, with one exception. Apparently SAAMI uses a little different approach to estimating the contribution of brass in the pressure measurement, resulting a 2 KPSI higher reading for piezoelectric.

Long story short, modern instrumentation is very good and produces results extremely consistent with the SAAMI system. Such equipment is within financial reach of any serious shooter.

In summary, running the 6.5x55 at even as much as 60,000 PSI:

1. Is not hot rodding and does not make anyone a dumphuck,
2. Does not require exotic powder, and
3. Is no more dangerous than using commercial ammunition in any of the common hunting cartridges. Like aviation, however, it is not for the careless, unskilled, or uninformed.
4. Does produce muzzle velocities in the neighborhood of 3,000 FPS in the 6.5x55, using ordinary powders and 120 grain bullets, which is an unimportant trifle better than you can do in either of the smaller 6.5 cases.

So, my friend, I hope this all helps somehow.

Now a HOT European, that is a fun topic for another day.

I haven't read all the posts but the 6.5 Creedmore is a complete waste of time and money.

Reason: It exactly duplicates the 6.5mm Remington. It has no advantages in terms of length, availability in factory rifles, velocity, efficiency, accuracy, etc. It's one of those new "designer" cartridges. In a few years it will basically die out and those who bought a rifle in that casliber will end up paying 5 or 6 times what factory ammo should cost. So get--or have made--a .260 instead. .308 is about the most common case around and you can always make .260s with one pass through the die.

The 6.5x55 is another matter entirely. I have no experience with it.

This has been discussed at length on this forum before, but the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed as a match round. The case was designed around a 140g BT match slug and the shoulder/neck junction positioned to prevent case doughnuts .

So, in that sense- as a match round it DOES do something better than the .260. Just as the Tubb designed 6XC etc are better for match use than a .243.

In a hunting round, the 6.5 Creedmoor does nothing better than any other 6.5. It's only current advantage as a hunting round is that it that a ballistic savvy firm like Hornady behind it offering new loads, etc.

Bumped into an old pal of mine today...his "job" is to "test" stuff for the USMC, including work on the sniper rifles, the handguns, etc.. Torture test if you will and make sure it is up to snuff for the USMC......

Anyhow... He said the 6.5 Creedmoor with Rock barrel has "eyes" at 1000 yards....wind calls for the 308 with Sierra bullets did not even seem to affect the Creedmoor at the same distances with Sierra Match bullets.Sounds like typical 6.5 stuff to me.

In theory it might be better than a 260 as a target round but in reality I don't think it is any better than the 260. And as far as I know the 6.5 is pretty much only available in Ruger rifles (other than custom guns) so the target thing doesn't really matter as I don't know of anyone who would use a Ruger as the basis of a target gun.

Good stuff there Denton. Thanks.

Thanks for your input!!!!!!!

Hmmm, for those still tuned in and looking for a handy 6.5 rifle, I built a 6.5x47 Lapua on a Remington 700 LH short action 8 twist 21" Lilja 3 groove and used to take a 3x3 mule deer at 553 yards this season. 129SST at 2925 or so one shot through and through lung hit.
Having shot around 5000 rounds of 260 Rem and up wards of 7000 rounds of 6.5x47 Lapua I would say there isn't much difference although I found the 6.5x47L to be just a bit more forgiving to load/ shoot accurately.
Pic of the 6.5x47L I cobbled together:

I love looking at that rifle...I am not a big Remington fan but the stainless barrel, blued action and nutmeg laminate stock has always been a sexy combo for me...that, and the bolt handle is on the correct side!

It is obvious from this thread and at least one other (the big one about the Hornady bullet changes) that Jim62 is an ardent Hornady apologist for whatever reason, so it is no surprise that he is putting forth the Hornady company line.

IMO, and it appears to be the opinion of many other 6.5mm fans, Hornady did the hunting public a major disservice by adopting the Creedmore as a hunting round instead of supporting the modern 6.5mm hunting round in that class - the .260 Rem. I don't see any reason for Hornady's actions regarding the Creedmore vs. .260 Rem other than vanity or ego or something similar. I personally hope Hornady's experiment with the Creedmore as a factory hunting round dies a very quick death so industry support for a medium-sized 6.5mm hunting round consolidates to just the 6.5x55 and .260 Rem, two great rounds.

It's great to have choices, but it is not good to have a fragmented 6.5mm hunting market in factory offerings since that segment is undersupported to begin with. There may be some who say Remington fragmented the market with the .260, but they were trying to get around the pressure issue of the 100-year-old 6.5x55 rifles so they could offer higher velocity ammo within SAAMI specs. Rifle loonies have a choice of several 6.5mm rounds of similar case capacity (must be something to those 6.5mm bullet ballistics), but it isn't realistic for the major manufacturers to support half a dozen different 6.5mm chamberings that provide virtually identical results.

While I have difficulty seeing the rationale behind the 6.5 Creedmoor I also have difficulty seeing the rationale behind the 6.5x55 as a cartridge for modern actions.
IMO the Creedmoor offers nothing that the .260 doesn't already offer in a short action.
The Swede doesn't fit in a short action and in a long action it's ballistics could be significantly improved with a 6.5-06.
I'd like to see the 6.5-06 legitimized by a major firm.

Any feeding problems with the Lapua case? Nice rig, BTW.

Best Regards

I think that the creedmoor has a couple of advantages for the newbie set.

Its throated for the match bullets and has match ammo availible from the factory. They factory ammo is loaded with canister powder with the recipe on the cartridge box.

So a newbie wants a match rifle and doesn't reload or isn't an advanced reloader can get started "over the counter" with the Creedmoor. In some ways its like the 308. over the counter precision, but without the recoil and the nice BC of the 6.5 bullets (or at least as close as the AMAX comes)

you know the "tactical" guy at the range who shoots 308 federal match ammo? whell the Creedmore is for his brother the "match" guy

I agree that it doesn't really do much that the 260/swede don't do and can't fling a bullet like the 6.5-284 (or burn a barrel either).

Slab,

I have two 6.5x47's.

The first is my heavy sniper/tactical rig on a Surgeon action in an AICS stock which uses the fabulous AI center feed 5 & 10 rd detach mags.

The second is a lighter hunting rig I took delivery of in Oct. It's lighter, at 8 lb 5 oz on a Pierce short action in a McMillan Rem Sporter, Edge filled with a #3.1 Broughton barrel topped with a NF 2.5-10x32mm scope. I'm still in the process of load development but it really likes Rel 17 so far with 140's.

To answer your question, it did have a bit of initial feeding problems that required the short Rem box to be tweaked a bit. The boxes are tapered a bit towards the bullet end of the box and it needed to be squared up a bit, more rectangular. Now it's as slick as ever.

Alan

nsaqam,

The 6.5 Creedmore has one minor advantage over the .260 in a bolt-action: It can easily handle the very long bullets such as the 140 Berger VLD in a short bolt action, without running into bullet-seating conflicts between OAL and getting the bullet near the throat.

As for the 6.5x55, its always interesting that so many people always assume that more velocity is better. If the 6.5-06 provides "improved" performance over the 6.5x55, why not then go to the .264 Winchester? It offers "improved" performance over the 6.5-06, isn't a wildcat, and also fits in a long action.

I know (because I have heard it so many times) that a wildcat is no disadvantage to a knowledgeable shooter--whatever that is. But in my experience wildcat rifles are more difficult to sell if you decide to down the road, and even then must almost always be sold with their relatively expensive dies.

I also don't find that much difference between the performance of the .260/6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x55 and 6.5-06, unless you count 150 fps as earth-shaking. Certainly it's not enough to notice any difference in "killing power" at any range, and any minor differences in long-range trajectory can easily be compensated for by dial-twirling.

It is also quite easy to find factory 6.5x55 ammo almost anywhere in the world. In my experience it's far more common
than .260 ammo even in North America.

I very much doubt the 6.5-06 will ever be introduced as a factory round by a major ammo company, what with the .25-06 and .270 already bracketing it. And even if some company did, I doubt even more that it would any sort of success.

Oh, and I own and shoot a 6.5-06 quite a bit.

JB, thanks for the explanation on the Creedmoor.

As to the 6.5x55 vs. 6.5-06 I just find that since the Swede is housed in a LA then I would like a cartridge that is sized to fit the LA and which provides better performance (velocity and all that higher velocity brings) than what can be housed in a SA. The Swede doesn't do that.

As to 150fps being meaningless, if that is how it's viewed then cartridge development should have ended with the 7x57, the .250-3000, the 9.3x62, the 375 H&H and the Newton cartridges for the high velocity guys.

OTOH, if you start with a Yugo intermediate Mauser action, the 6.5x55 fits perfectly.

But it don't come in LH!

BTW denton, very nice post yesterday.

Thanks.

Well for me, I WAS ready,then I just bought a Ruger 1A in 6.5x55,I like compact rifles...I'll wait a bit.

That's an issue, alright.

John, I think that the 6.5-06 kind of negates the reason for the existense of either the 25-06 or the 270. There is a much wider choice of slugs for the 6.5. If only old what's his name had touted the 6.5-06 instead of the 270 I think things would be far different now. I happen to like anything with 6.5 (264) attached to it. Awesome with 160gr slugs...

nsaqam,

If 150 fps is significant, and more velocity always better, then why not go all the way to the .264 WM and get 250-300 fps over the 6.5x55? The .264 will fit in any bolt action the 6.5-06 will.

GSSP,

Good info and thanks much. Always looking for other 6.5 options and this one has my interest.

Best Regards

John Boy,

I have heard the same "wider choice" thing about various other bore diameters, including 7mm.

I just looked up 6.5mm and .270 bullets on the MidwayUSA site. Now, they may not list every bullet in the world, but they do list most, including Woodleighs. There are 69 6.5mm bullets, ranging in weight from 85-160 grains. There are 80 .270 bullets, ranging in weight from 85-180 grains.

I've killed quite a few big game animals with .25, 6.5 and .270 rifles, the cartridges including the .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, .257 Roberts AI, .25-06, .257 Weatherby, 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer, 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, 6.5-06, .264 Winchester Magnum, 6.8 SPC, .270 Winchester, .270 WSM and .270 Weatherby Magnum. The list of bullets used is much longer, of course.

They all kill "awesome" when the bullet goes in the right place, at any range where the bullet can be put in the right place.

The truth is that all of this thread is more of the same Campfire-dance around really tiny ballistic gack.

John,
You are absolutely correct. That's why my 22-250 loaded with 80 gr A-Max's works. But the ballistic gack (trivia, tripe etc) is what makes this place fun. Where else can you go and have such great conversations with notable gun scribes and knowledgable shooters? By the way have you heard of the 29.5 GACK, I heard it rivals the 29 BS with more bullet choices to boot......

My point is that the 6.5x55 is neither a SA cartridge nor a LA cartridge.

If the exact same ballistic performance can be gotten from a .260 housed in a SA what advantage does the Swede give me housed in a LA?

While the "advantages" of a SA are debatable (to me at least) they are still measurable.
Not so the difference in the ballistics of the .260 v. the Swede.

John Boy,

Yep, where else can we get gacked so well!

nsaqam,

Whatever--though I also fail to see any real disadvantage of a 6.5x55 on a standard 98 action. Or, especially, a medium-length action such as a Mexican Mauser or "short" Montana 1999.

Some shooters would even argue that there's an advantage to the 6.5x55 over the .260 in a .30-06 length action, since like the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 2.8" magazine, any bullet can be seated out to touch the lands.

You still haven't answered why anybody would choose the 6.5-06 in a .30-06-length action when the .264 provides even more velocity.

Or is this thread turning into a 6.5-06 love fest?

John -do you know of any neato light rigs coming out this year in the 6.5 Creed?

Dober


(side note, years gone back when I had one of the execs from Nozler out for a bruin hunt I tried to get them to begin listing in their manuals along with BC and SD the BG quotient..grin)

Spoil Sport - You are letting logic get in the way of dreaming. My wildest dream 6.5 wildcat cartridge will beat the 264 Winchester Magnum any day, and even more so in the evening after 3-4 Jack Daniels.

The exact same LA housing the Swede (boltface, length, feedrails) can house the 6.5-06 but cannot house the .264 WM.

If it were me choosing a 6.5mm rifle to build I'd likely go with a 26" 6.5x68 Schuler pushing 140's out at 3200 or so.

I dunno of any offhand. Maybe if the long-barrel Hawkeyes sell, Ruger will make some smaller rifles. The round would sure work well in the Kimber Montana!

And what did the Nosler exec say about that? And who was he?

His name is Paul Coil he was their CFO for a while if I recall right. He got a kick out of the fact that I shot bruins with a 22/250 and chucks with my .340.

Dober

nsaqam...

Given the need for a LH action, I think your arguments make sense. As I've said, I chose 6.5x55 simply because I had the dies (and a Yugo Mauser) lying about. I think I would be just as happy with a 260 or the Creedmoor.

There are a lot of personal preferences in firearms that I don't understand. Never liked the AR15, don't own a magnum rifle except my 357 lever action, and don't understand what people see in the 22 Mag. But I also know that other people feel very differently, and, thankfully, there are abundant choices for them in the marketplace. I am not diminished in the least because someone really likes something that I don't.

Sure it's a 6.5-06 love fest, I have one. Although, I have this deep need for a 264 WM.

What do you use your 50 BMG on??? grin....

Mark,

I know Paul very well. He doesn't work for Nosler anymore, and I kinda lost track of him. But would get a kick out of that!

nsaquam,

Any action capable of holding the 6.5-06 is also available in a magnum version that would hold the .264. Some are even easily convertible. My .338 Winchester is on an FN action that was originally a .30-06. Took less than $50 to convert it.

And the .264 is safely capable of 3200 with a 140, using at least 3-4 of today's powders.

You're giving me ideas. I have a push feed M70 in 264 that's been sitting. I'm thinking of the 100 gr. TTSX at as close to warp nine as I can get.

Mule Deer, thank you for your posts......it gets a bit frustrating at times on the board. My main thought process on the creedmoor was this: I have a 250 ai and really like the way it shoots and kills, but there are times i would like to be shooting a bit bigger bullet....hence the 6.5 creedmoor. Do I need one....heck no....would it be fun to mess with...... heck yes will it do anything my Sako A7 in a .270 won't already do...nope...but what fun is it to be rational when it comes to rifle and rounds for them. Thanks again for your time and effort on this post......Goodshot

You're an example of the reason we get called "rifle loonies". Congratulations, it's incurable....grin..

mathman,

How long is the barrel on that push-feed M70? I have had excellent luck with the 100 TSX in the .257 Weatherby and the .264 would be just more of the same good thing!

goodshot,

The 6.5 Creedmoor is certainly versatile. Not only can it be easily loaded with long, tapered 140's (my rifle gets over 2800 fps and excellent accuracy with 140 VLD's with published data) but also gets over 3200 with 100 TTSX's--and similar accuracy.

Another plus is that every factory rifle chambered so far has a 1-8 twist.

It's a 24" barrel, so I figure 3600 shouldn't be out of reach.

Might even be able to beat that by a little bit!

From the above: "As I've said, I chose 6.5x55 simply because I had the dies (and a Yugo Mauser) lying about."

Now this is about as sensible an argument that has been made here. I load for 20 cartridges and there is not any game in the Western Hemisphere that I can't tackle. I've made up my mind that I'll only buy a firearm for which I already load. Each new cartridge/caliber costs me $$$ for dies, cases, bullets and perhaps powder.

I know that I�m missing some fun and new adventures, but I�m just too old and tired to keep seeking new adventures. I�d rather use my remaining brain cells (now where did I put them?) and dollars to buy different firearms of the same caliber. But then, I see something new and ���.

I am new here to the campfire, but I have been reloading for close to 30 years now and definetly would be considered a "Rifle Looney".
After many years of horse trading, buying, and selling guns, and changing my mind several hundred times over as to which calibers are the best and why, I've decided to consolidate a bit as to which calibers to keep on the reloading bench.(its either that or build a bigger bench!)
My personal choices have been narrowed down to .223,.264,.338,and.429 for my hunting/reloading/casting preferences. That said when I decided I "NEEDED" a dedicated general purpose target rifle I chose the 6.5 Creedmoor in a Ruger 77 Target rifle, and could not have been happier with the choice.
JB... I would like to thank you for the info you have shared with us on this subject as I have been tossing around what 6.5 hunting rig I would like to purchase to, dare I say, replace my old faithful mod70 featherweight in 257 Roberts.
Mind you I would love to have the room in the safe and on the reloading bench to keep it, but for me the 6.5 is the direction I am heading in with my "consolidating." Having both my target and main general purpose hunting rigs in the same caliber helps at the reloading bench.
As for the Creedmoor vs this or that, to each his own...I like them all, but agree with JB that the Creedmoor's design is such that you can seat the bigger bullets out farther towards the rifling,(thus infringing less upon the case capacity) which may also help you in the accuracy department with bullets like the Bergers which seem to prefer to be seated out to the rifling in most rifles.

Just my personal choice,
johnny

flattop johnny,

Welcome to the Campfire!

I think you would like the 6.5 Creedmoor a lot--or any of the other smaller 6.5's.

But I'd like to clear up a common misconception: Seating bullets so their bases are below the neck doesn't take up any more powder room. The base of a bullet takes up exactly as much space inside a neck as it does below the neck.

This is hard for many shooters to understand, mostly because they've been told the deep-seating a bullet takes up "extra" powder room for a long time. But seating the bullet below the neck is more the rule than the exception. In fact, a 200-grain spitzer seated to standard overall cartridge length in the .300 Weatherby protrudes almos as far below the neck as the same bullet does in a .300 WSM.

The reason the 6.5 Creedmoor holds just about as much powder as the .260 is not because the neck is longer, but because the shoulder angle is steeper, 30 degrees vs. 20 in the .260. This almost makes up for the slightly shorter case body of the Creedmoor. But the base of a 140-grain Berger VLD still protrudes 2/10th of an inch below the neck of the Creedmoor.

There are several reasons for the Creedmoor case design, but the biggie in bolt-action rifles is that the long, 3/4" ogive of bullets such as the VLD doesn't have to be seated partially inside the case neck, as it is in the .260--which does make seating the shank of such bullets near the lands possible.

Gotcha...sort of like trying to seat the Nosler 225 Accubond's ogive into a 350 Rem Mag....Thanks again
johnny

Exactly!

With all the data, guns, brass, and history available, I see no reason to buy a 6.5 Worthless [Creedmore] over a 260Remington. Anything the 6.5 Worthless will do, the 260 can do and the 6.5x284 can do better. Being based off the 30TC [another worthless cartridge] the brass can't be readily made. Lapua and Savage are now on the 260Remington like bees on honey, so that makes the 260 an even better choice.

The Creedmoor is currently being offered in 3 Rifles from Ruger, a couple from Savage, at least the 4 different versions of the Icon from T/C, DPMS in the AR platform, the Tubb rifle, and one more match rifle whose name is slipping my mind at the moment.

I like all the 6.5's; each for a different reason...maybe I like Rugers, and the only 260 they offer is the Laminated Compact, which has way too short of a length of pull for me, not to mention a "Worthless" 16-1/4" barrel.

good shootin'
johnny

dmsbandit,

I don't know where you got your info on the Creedmoor case not being readily made, but it's essentially the 6.5/.250 Savage Improved. If you can find .250 brass, Creedmoor cases are easy to make.

When the cartridge first came out, the gunwriters doing the articles stated that it was based on the 30TC case. I've also read other articles in different magazines and nowhere does the 250Savage case ever get mentioned as the parent case. I guess the "experts" doing the writing and selling of the cartridge can't get their stories straight.

That's because most gun writers apparently followed Hornady's company line that the Creedmoor was a brand-new design. But when I first opened a box of ammo and took out a round, it looked very familiar, somehow. I measured the case and yep, it's the .250 Savage in slightly different form and caliber.

Actually, the easiest and cheapest way to make Creedmoor brass cheaply is with .22-250 cases--though the Hornady brass is VERY good and reasonably priced.

John,

I buy .22-.250 brass to make brass for my .250 Savage...jim

I suspect a lot of people do! I have done it myself, more than once.

Basically, the 30TC is a high pressure .300 Savage with a slightly longer neck, within a few thousandths of the .250-3000. As JB and others have stated, the Creedmoor is the same case as the 250AI, but with a 30, instead of 40 degree shoulder.
As far as .22-250 brass for the .250, Elk had an article about the .250 several years back, with a sidebar of comments from people in the industry. I believe Alan Jones from Speer did the same thing.

"Not a matter of how it grips it. It's a simple matter of weight ratio. A five ounce bird cannot carry a one pound coconut!"

So ,how is that Target Ruger shooting for you?????What weight bullets do you use and what kind of groups?????Sounds like a fun gun .Welcome to the Fire.

Not a 6.5 shooter of anything,yet, but a die hard looney, so this is exactly the reason why the 6.5X55 is getting a strong look as a potential rebarrel for a LH Model 70 .30-06 I'm getting.

It's also THE reason why I chose the .250 Savage AI over a Bob in a LH short action M700, even though Redding dies are twice as expensive, Lee doesn't make a collet die for it except via custom, and brass, while available, is not "widely" available.

And finally it's also why, when thinking about rebarreling a LH M700 .308, I searched old posts for "creedmoor" and found this one.

Have been frustrated more than once by the 7mm-08 and especially the .308 when a chosen bullet will not get near the lands and still fit a 2.8" Remington magazine.

Just a little less case length vs. magazine constraints will get you there with room to spare, bad pun intended.

And having tested a 3.150" OAL 7mm Mauser dummy round in another M70 .30-06, that extra .3" of magazine really doesn't look like too much wasted space at all.

So ,how is that Target Ruger shooting for you?????What weight bullets do you use and what kind of groups?????Sounds like a fun gun .Welcome to the Fire. [/quote]

When I first bought the Target Ruger; Creedmoor brass was backordered, so I took a chance and bought 6 boxes of factory 140 gr A-max's (worse case scenario I would have brass)...every group including the first group has been sub-MOA @100yds. This rifle will usually put the first 3 rounds into a ragged hole, which may open up a little when firing 5 shot groups.
At 300 yds I've yet to shoot over a 2" group, with most tending to stay around
1.5"....While I have a great shooting CZ 550 American in 6.5x55 for a hunting bolt action, I still am contemplating about getting another Ruger for a hunting rig in the Creedmoor...was thinking about the new all weather Hawkeye, but swapping the synthetic stock with one of Rugers grey laminate versions.(my gunsmith...Mitch Shultz...leases a building behind Rugers shop so he may be able to make this possible)
All in all, I like the target rifle immensely....And thank you for the Welcomes...Its great to be here.
good shootin'
johnny

Ramshot Powder site load data version 4.5 lists loads and pressures for 6.5 Grendel (for AR-15 20" barrel), 6.5mmx47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x55mm, 260 Remington, 6.5mmx284, and .264 Winchester Magnum. They are all on the same page, so easy to compare performance and pressures. All but the Grendel use 24" barrel.

Max pressures over 60,000 psi show for 6mmx47, 6.5mmx284, and .264 Win Mag.

Max pressures in data: 6.5 Creedmoor 59,000 psi, 260 - 57,860 psi, 6.5x55mm - 55,090 psi. As the tests did not use the same bullets in the various weights, comparison is not exact. Their performance appears faily similar with a speed edge to the Creedmoor. 6.5x55mm does well with 140-gr Partition - does not give up significant speed to the others. I guess Ramshot's powders would be about equally suitable for all three, as their case capacities are so close, although slower powder was used in the 6.5x55mm.

I have had excellent luck with Ramshot Big Game and 100-grain bullets in the Creedmoor, and Hunter does great with 120-140 grain bullets. In the 26" barrel of my Hawkeye sporter, the Ramshot Hunter data gets 3100 with 120 Ballistic Tips and 2850 with 140 Berger VLD's, with excellent accuracy.

Gotta Sweed,
Wanna Creed!

Jim

Like I have stated before, I have a 250 AI that I simply love,and I have killed a number of deer with it it.....all one hot kills with either Sierra 100 grn game kings or 100 grn Nosler BT with RL15 running about 3100 fps.I just think the 6.5 creedmoor would be a great deer / antelope set up with bit heavier bullet.I also have a 6.5-06 AI but it is set up as a bean field type rifle....great for blind hunting but too heavy to carry around. Been thinking that the 6.5 creedmoor jut might be the ticket in the Ruger 77 Hawkeye. Sounds like they are shooting pretty good out of the box and there are enough ways you tweak Ruger's if it does not.All my rifles are synthetic and stainless....thinking at least one in walnut and blue would be nice. Do most of you guys use the rings Ruger supplies with the hawkeye or do something different?

I see a standard (blue and walnut) and an all weather (stainless and synthetic) at Ruger's site. Both are listed with 24-inch barrels. A target model with stainless, laminate, and 28-inch thick tapered barrel, weighing 9.5 lb, is listed. No. 1 light sporter with 22-inch barrel is cataloged, too.

Hawkeye sporter with laminate and stainless would be one of the most attractive configurations, but 6.5 Creedmoor is not in there, now.

Savage lists in 6.5 Creedmoor a model 16 FCSS Weather Warrior with 22-inch barrel and a model 12 Long Range Precision with 26-inch barrel weighing 11 lb. Found 6.5 Creedmoor and .260 Rem in a model 11 Long Range Hunter 26-inch barrel, weight 8.4-lb. It is similar to the model 111 below that comes in 6.5mmx284 Norma, but a little lighter. It did not show up when I used the gun finder by caliber 6.5 Creedmoor on their site, but did when I looked for .260 Rem.

Savage lists seven models in 6.5mmx284 Norma. A couple of them are model 12 target and bench rest - long and heavy. 111 Long Range Hunter (26-inch barrel, adj muzzle brake, almost 9 lbs), 111 Lightweight Hunter (20-inch barrel), 110 Predator Hunter Max 1 (24-inch barrel, near 9 lbs), and Weather Warrior (right and left handed, 22-inch barrel, under 7 lb). This would be a different topic.