That is a helluva deer with anything. I talked to gunner right after he shot it this afternoon and he has one fine Hawken that will take the powder, and he doesn't hesitate to lean on it. 140 grains of KIK 2f and a .562 round ball carries the mail, big time. Those red specks you see scattered in the picture aren't little flowers or berries, they are bits of flesh and lung tissue. Gunner hit that deer right and proper, and it just doesn't get any better than a REAL Hawken and a patched round ball. Gunner said the rifle shot exactly to the sights at 133 yards.