Originally Posted by ElkSlayer91
SCAMMER SPIKE ™


SCOPE: To ensure a buyer is fully protected from a fraudulent firearm sale, from a seller who has no selling history or is new to a forum.

STEP 1: Disclose to the seller you will purchase his item, and your FFL licensed agent will act as the escrow agent in the transfer of the funds. Tell the seller he will send the gun to the FFL agent / Escrow agent to ensure item is as described and once the buyer accepts, the FFL agent / Escrow agent will then release funds with a tracking number, and the firearm will not be transferred until the tracking number shows delivery of funds. Buyer needs to communicate to the seller that a FFL licensed person would never risk losing their FFL license through fraud, theft of their gun, over a transfer fee / Escrow agent fee on one simple gun purchase. An offense would include multiple Federal Felony crimes with mandatory jail time.

If the seller balks at this point, the buyer walks, and saves themselves from grief, because the above is a simple business transaction that protects parties, and if he will not allow you to protect yourself, then you saved time and money.

STEP 2: Depending on how good of a relationship the buyer has with his FFL agent, he could possibly perform the leg work for the agent in mailing funds, and acquiring the tracking number to save on costs from the FFL agent.

Example: Usage of cellular phone camera to take picture of USPS Money Order, and tracking number label on sealed envelope texted / emailed to agent before being mailed or whatever other way you both decide to be simple for proof you mailed funds.

STEP 3: Email a contract to the seller disclosing the steps above that will be taken, and listing the FFL agent as the escrow agent, and a link to an online government list showing the FFL’s location the gun will be mailed to, so he will be comfortable. Have seller agree to terms of sale by returning an “I AGREE” to the terms listed in the email.

STEP 4: Example contract to be emailed to Seller:

SALES CONTRACT

I, [ Name of Seller ], after having received in hand the amount of [ Spell out Dollar Amount “CAPITALIZED” DOLLARS, ($xxx.xxx) ], sell the below described items to [ Print Buyer’s Name ].

I agree to [Name of FFL Licensed agent ] acting as the escrow agent for the transfer of monies in this sales transaction. I will mail the items described to be purchased below, to the FFL agent’s address provided to me, [ Print FFL Address Here ] where the agent will accept or deny.

ITEM/S TO BE PURCHASED:

Model Number:

Serial Number:

MISC:


By stating “I AGREE”, WE, the SELLER and BUYER, accept the terms above.

SELLER: I AGREE

BUYER: I AGREE

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Conclusion: Obviously you are free to modify the above contract to fit your specific sale if needed. I just wanted to provide a base example for buyers to have for their use.

I have used the above process before and did the leg work for the FFL, and it went smooth.

IT DOES WORK.

Copy and paste the above in a new thread in all other gun forums online, and have them pin it at the top of classified sections, and this “SCAMMER SPIKE” through the heart of scammers will stop the fraud overnight. When communicating with the new seller, just send a link in your communication to the pinned article above in the forum you are in online, if they have it pinned in that forum, and tell him this is the process you will use, and let them read it. This process can also be used for those who purchase on Armslist or any other online venue.

If they are legit, they will have zero problems, because it will only build their credibility, and actually, it might be a good idea for both the seller and buyer to announce in the sale thread they are using the “SCAMMER SPIKE” in this sales transaction, so everyone online will become educated in the process.

Someone call Rick Bin or email him, and have him pin this here. Let's get some protection for you guys.

Originally Posted by ElkSlayer91
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Why would an FFL get into the middle of the sale, handling the money, therefore accepting the potential for all kinds of different issues without getting paid quite a bit extra for the service?

Why would the seller put out his money to ship his valuables without being paid up front?

You didn't read the example did you? The FFL doesn't have to do anything if he understands the "simple" concept.

Really, it's real simple. Not difficult to understand at all.


I did make the mistake of reading this drivel and it is nothing like you represent. You clearly do not do transfers on a very regular basis.

You are asking the FFL to jump through a lot of hoops. As currently set up an FFL needs mere minutes to deal with transactions if he is trying to move people through the doors. Typical fees for a transfer vary widely, but are often $50 or more. Now ask him to deal with seller, hold money and deliver after receipt, and make a judgement on whether the gun is as advertised. All of which take far more time than the actual transfer paper.

Money issues, even related to firearms exchanges are civil matters and you would not get BATFE interested over a money squabble.

I think it is a ridiculous idea... the answer to the question no one should or would ask...


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.