Reading comprehension isn’t real strong here, most are answering a question that wasn’t even asked
A smaller charge of a faster powder is much less blasty, especially in shorter barrels
H4895 is where I would want to be considering your parameters
Nice and pithy! Thanks CR!
And an excellent recommendation for the circumstances. Stick powders tend to be less "blasty" than ball powders out off short barrels.
antelope sniper;
Good morning to you sir, I hope that this first Sunday of the year finds you and yours well.
That's an interesting observation and if I think about it I'd have to agree with it, but that's based on the 4895s mostly, though as mentioned I've burned a fair bit of IMR3031 and IMR4064 and can't recall them being quite as well "mild mannered" for lack of a more scientific term.
There's likely some science in the basic makeup of the powders as well and if you or some educated individual cares to share, I'd be interested in reading it.
All the best to you all in 2021 sir.
Dwayne
Good Morning Dwayne. Happy New Years to you as well. I hope your 2021 is more prosperous than 2020.
I based my comments on "blastly" powders primarily on personal experience. My first hunting rifle was a Winchester Model 70a in .270, with a 22" barrel. Since we lived in the country and could shoot right out the back door, I poured a good number of powders through that rifle. The ball powders seemed to produce the most blast, especially as it relates to the size of the fireball. At dusk when I'd tough it off with a load of W760 or W785, all you could see through the scope was fire. They made for great 4th of July loads.
As for the actual chemistry behind this, I'm sure we have some real chemist here who can expand upon my crude understanding of the differences between the stick and double based ball powders. Both contain nitrocellulose, but double based powders also contain nitroglycerin, which tends to make them burn hotter, dirtier, and IMO blastyer.
Although this may be one relevant variable, Quickload has a function where it provides muzzle pressure when the bullet exits, which is a nice scientific measure of blastyness. When we take a look at the data, powder burn rate appears to be the more significant variable, with the faster powders being more mild to the ears in shorter barrels, which matches with your experience with the 4895's being more mild to the ears than the 4064's.
Since the OP referenced the 165gr bullets in a short barreled 30.06 I used that for my QL example.
Colum 8 below is pressure at the muzzle.
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler PART SP 16330
Useable Case Capaci: 61.996 grain H2O = 4.025 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 59000 psi, or 406 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
56 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 110.0 67.6 4.38 2920 98.8 58422 13980 0.997 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 99.5 59.7 3.87 2872 99.9 59000 12568 0.995 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 110.0 65.6 4.25 2864 96.0 57460 13582 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 104.4 58.1 3.77 2854 99.3 59000 12475 0.992 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 110.0 64.6 4.18 2827 92.3 58774 12996 0.994 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 104.2 61.5 3.99 2824 97.5 59000 12508 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 98.4 59.5 3.85 2816 96.7 59000 12455 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 98.4 59.5 3.85 2816 96.7 59000 12455 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 103.8 58.7 3.80 2814 98.9 59000 12182 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 103.3 59.0 3.82 2813 98.9 59000 12213 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 100.7 58.8 3.81 2811 98.7 59000 12286 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 108.7 62.1 4.02 2811 94.7 59000 12547 1.000 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 93.9 58.5 3.79 2809 99.0 59000 12072 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 101.0 57.7 3.74 2806 98.4 59000 12085 1.007 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 107.7 61.2 3.97 2803 94.3 59000 12412 0.995 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 109.0 59.6 3.86 2798 99.0 59000 11958 1.018 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 93.7 57.1 3.70 2794 99.6 59000 11689 1.010 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 106.7 59.0 3.82 2790 99.8 59000 11380 1.006 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 110.0 64.2 4.16 2789 90.8 54722 13164 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 93.3 53.3 3.45 2788 99.7 59000 11694 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 110.0 63.5 4.12 2788 91.7 57338 12705 1.005 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 102.9 60.7 3.94 2786 94.3 59000 12175 1.001 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 94.1 53.8 3.48 2779 99.4 59000 11622 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 94.5 54.0 3.50 2778 99.6 59000 11559 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 89.0 55.5 3.60 2775 100.0 59000 11420 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 86.5 53.2 3.45 2773 100.0 59000 11054 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 96.1 55.5 3.60 2773 99.9 59000 11438 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 110.0 63.5 4.12 2771 93.4 53898 12887 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 109.4 63.2 4.10 2768 91.7 59000 12062 0.999 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 95.4 55.7 3.61 2766 98.5 59000 11661 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 96.0 54.0 3.50 2766 99.6 59000 11220 1.004 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 90.7 51.8 3.36 2764 99.8 59000 11295 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 89.2 54.5 3.53 2764 99.6 59000 11357 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 91.0 52.0 3.37 2761 99.6 59000 11331 1.018 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 106.8 64.4 4.17 2761 94.3 59000 11840 1.003 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 102.9 58.2 3.77 2760 96.8 59000 11786 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350 102.9 58.2 3.77 2760 96.8 59000 11786 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 93.6 50.0 3.24 2759 100.0 59000 10491 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 110.0 66.8 4.33 2758 88.4 53704 12997 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 6,5 StaBall *T*C 101.7 62.5 4.05 2757 99.9 59000 11048 1.003 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 110.0 68.5 4.44 2756 94.0 55608 12427 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T 105.5 59.0 3.82 2754 95.8 59000 11637 1.008 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 103.6 58.9 3.81 2754 96.0 59000 11626 1.008 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 91.0 53.6 3.47 2749 100.0 59000 10750 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Match Rifle 91.0 53.6 3.47 2749 100.0 59000 10750 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 89.0 53.6 3.47 2749 100.0 59000 10750 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 95.8 53.5 3.47 2746 100.0 59000 10741 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 96.6 53.4 3.46 2743 99.3 59000 11141 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 96.3 53.4 3.46 2743 99.3 59000 11141 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Long Rifle 101.5 56.7 3.68 2742 97.9 59000 11441 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 101.5 56.7 3.68 2742 97.9 59000 11441 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 87.6 50.3 3.26 2741 100.0 59000 10829 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 95.0 52.8 3.42 2740 100.0 59000 10886 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Precision 95.0 52.8 3.42 2740 100.0 59000 10886 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 89.1 54.9 3.56 2738 98.1 59000 11313 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 97.2 52.5 3.40 2738 99.4 59000 10979 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 98.7 55.7 3.61 2737 96.5 59000 11407 1.009 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 89.5 51.1 3.31 2733 100.0 59000 10725 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 97.0 56.2 3.64 2733 95.9 59000 11452 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 82.5 51.5 3.33 2730 100.0 59000 10449 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 92.1 51.5 3.34 2730 100.0 59000 10814 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 93.7 54.1 3.51 2728 100.0 59000 10579 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 91.4 51.4 3.33 2728 100.0 59000 10437 1.024 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 89.2 51.7 3.35 2728 98.8 59000 10997 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T 110.0 61.2 3.96 2727 92.0 58289 11649 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C 103.3 55.7 3.61 2727 100.0 59000 10636 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 90.1 50.4 3.26 2726 100.0 59000 10318 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 110.0 61.5 3.99 2723 99.0 49953 12226 1.077
ADI AR 2219 82.1 48.5 3.14 2723 100.0 59000 10148 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 87.4 48.5 3.14 2723 100.0 59000 10148 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 86.9 53.0 3.43 2719 99.5 59000 10793 1.018 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 85.1 52.4 3.39 2718 100.0 59000 10486 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 85.4 52.4 3.39 2718 100.0 59000 10486 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 85.0 52.6 3.41 2716 99.9 59000 10596 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T 97.7 53.5 3.47 2714 96.6 59000 11056 1.012 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 98.2 53.9 3.49 2713 100.0 59000 10418 1.019 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 88.9 49.1 3.18 2711 100.0 59000 9705 1.026 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 84.0 51.5 3.33 2709 100.0 59000 10333 1.032 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World AR Plus 84.0 51.5 3.33 2709 100.0 59000 10333 1.032 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 83.4 49.2 3.19 2704 100.0 59000 10256 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 *C 99.6 51.6 3.34 2703 100.0 59000 9830 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 91.4 50.8 3.29 2702 99.6 59000 10485 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Tactical Rifle 83.8 51.0 3.31 2700 99.9 59000 10325 1.018 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 110.0 62.9 4.07 2697 96.3 53240 11765 1.075 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 88.6 49.9 3.23 2696 100.0 59000 10197 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 81.6 49.7 3.22 2696 100.0 59000 10170 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 87.3 50.9 3.30 2694 100.0 59000 9887 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 90.7 51.3 3.32 2692 99.8 59000 10323 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 96.9 57.8 3.74 2687 95.7 59000 10789 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 110.0 62.2 4.03 2683 91.6 49046 12473 1.088
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 84.9 45.8 2.97 2676 100.0 59000 9538 1.031 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C 81.2 49.2 3.19 2673 100.0 59000 9988 1.017 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 87.4 47.8 3.10 2668 100.0 59000 9467 1.037 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T 110.0 61.1 3.96 2657 89.5 52049 11564 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 74.2 44.3 2.87 2654 100.0 59000 9290 1.015 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 81.3 45.5 2.95 2653 100.0 59000 9300 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 82.3 44.2 2.86 2651 100.0 59000 9230 1.008 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 93.1 48.7 3.16 2650 100.0 59000 9182 1.022 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 84.6 43.4 2.81 2639 100.0 59000 8913 1.013 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 110.0 61.1 3.96 2636 88.4 47900 12094 1.094
Vihtavuori N165 *C 110.0 62.2 4.03 2635 93.1 50686 11280 1.078
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle 73.0 39.0 2.53 2635 100.0 59000 9073 1.011 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 71.4 39.0 2.53 2635 100.0 59000 9073 1.011 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D060 73.0 39.0 2.53 2635 100.0 59000 9073 1.011 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 87.8 46.9 3.04 2634 100.0 59000 9048 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 110.0 65.3 4.23 2630 88.4 50034 11888 1.074
Alliant Reloder-7 80.0 44.2 2.87 2629 100.0 59000 8982 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 *C 110.0 60.3 3.91 2627 90.9 52097 11052 1.066 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 80.2 42.8 2.78 2618 100.0 59000 8799 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 110.0 62.5 4.05 2613 94.0 44316 12414 1.136
Vihtavuori N565 *C 110.0 64.6 4.18 2599 87.5 44467 12268 1.147
Hodgdon H4227 77.0 40.3 2.61 2584 100.0 59000 8357 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 76.8 40.1 2.60 2581 100.0 59000 8333 1.016 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 *C 82.5 43.0 2.79 2572 100.0 59000 8247 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 *C 78.1 41.5 2.69 2572 100.0 59000 8255 1.034 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S053 77.6 39.8 2.58 2539 100.0 59000 7970 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 110.0 59.4 3.85 2520 93.3 43104 11098 1.187
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T 110.0 62.2 4.03 2520 80.0 51150 10086 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C 110.0 62.9 4.07 2499 85.5 39554 11877 1.205
ADI AR 2205 73.6 40.0 2.59 2488 100.0 59000 7577 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 *C 73.2 35.5 2.30 2462 100.0 59000 7294 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217 110.0 62.2 4.03 2454 83.9 41387 10945 1.176
Hodgdon H1000 *T 110.0 62.2 4.03 2454 83.9 41387 10945 1.176
Vihtavuori N570 *C 110.0 66.3 4.30 2449 75.7 38838 11788 1.216
Hodgdon Retumbo 110.0 63.2 4.10 2368 84.0 35488 11295 1.267
ADI AR 2225 110.0 63.2 4.10 2368 84.0 35488 11295 1.267
Shooters World BMG 110.0 67.6 4.38 2364 72.3 41210 9746 1.194
Lovex D100 110.0 67.6 4.38 2364 72.3 41210 9746 1.194
Alliant Reloder-33 *C 110.0 68.2 4.42 2363 73.6 36317 11183 1.258
Vihtavuori N170 *C 110.0 62.2 4.03 2319 75.5 36364 9897 1.272
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C 110.0 67.0 4.34 2314 67.7 38424 9769 1.231
Accurate LRT 110.0 66.8 4.33 2281 65.1 36232 9839 1.265
ADI AR 2218 110.0 67.0 4.34 2279 66.5 36036 10177 1.265
ADI AP 100 71.9 28.4 1.84 2270 100.0 59000 5939 1.050 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 217 *C 110.0 61.9 4.01 2250 79.2 30073 10836 1.360
IMR 8133 Enduron *C*T 110.0 61.5 3.99 2246 76.7 30655 10465 1.349
Hodgdon H870 110.0 64.9 4.21 2224 71.5 30991 10269 1.346
Alliant HERCO 71.5 25.6 1.66 2207 100.0 59000 5654 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-50 *C 110.0 68.0 4.41 2139 65.7 27798 10006 1.411
Lovex S035 70.5 25.1 1.62 2137 100.0 59000 5077 1.078 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon 50BMG 110.0 63.8 4.14 2136 59.2 30969 8732 1.351
Hodgdon US 869 110.0 67.0 4.34 2127 62.4 30687 8776 1.360
Lovex D013 72.7 21.7 1.41 2112 100.0 59000 5138 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Sparta 100 72.7 21.7 1.41 2112 100.0 59000 5138 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Nitro 100 72.7 21.7 1.41 2112 100.0 59000 5138 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant GREEN DOT 72.5 23.1 1.50 2098 100.0 59000 5011 1.090 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant RED DOT 77.5 22.0 1.43 2088 100.0 59000 4985 1.077 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S015 73.3 23.2 1.50 2085 100.0 59000 4916 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1000 73.3 23.2 1.50 2085 100.0 59000 4916 1.089 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AS 30 76.9 22.7 1.47 2066 100.0 59000 4821 1.084 ! Near Maximum !
Norma R1 81.3 23.5 1.52 2047 100.0 59000 4715 1.086 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Clays 80.7 22.1 1.43 2041 100.0 59000 4687 1.076 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 8700 110.0 65.6 4.25 2030 62.5 27614 8264 1.421
Vihtavuori 20N29 *C 110.0 67.6 4.38 1995 59.3 26041 8220 1.457
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 96.0 27.4 1.77 1978 100.0 59000 4204 1.113 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AS 25 BP 110.0 21.2 1.37 1727 100.0 39589 3373 1.324
IMR TrailBoss 110.0 21.2 1.37 1727 100.0 39589 3373 1.324
In this case top velocity comes from a highly compressed load of RL26 and produces 14K psi exiting the muzzle. Since it has it's own chemistry, it's probably not the best example, but H4895 is only around 11.3K. But to be fair, H380 simulates at 11.7K psi a the same velocity, or only 3.5% more then it's single base equivalent.
So the short answer to the OP, yes faster burning powders tend to reduce muzzle blast from shorter barrels.
