Originally Posted by There_Ya_Go
Originally Posted by urbaneruralite
Originally Posted by mathman
Bullshit. Math requires a bit of wrestling with to master.

To be plain, I don't mean make it harder than necessary, be less than clear in explanations and demonstrations or whatever. However, math isn't just a collection of facts and formulas to be remembered and demonstrated examples to be regurgitated. The student must come to understand the principles involved and their application to problems which are not just like the ones shown in class. For many if not most students this understanding comes only after a good bit of work on their part.

I earned a PhD in mathematics and I can assure you as the level of study rises so does the outside of class effort expected of the student. Most people haven't encountered five problem homework sets that eat up the best part of two weeks to complete.


I think the issue here is you confuse teaching with lecturing. You expect to lay it out for them, then they make the effort to bridge the gap. That's not teaching. It's also nonsensical because the one holding the knowledge is the only one holding the materials with which the bridge can be made.

I always thought the problem with professors not teaching, especially in upper level courses, is they usually only understood the material well enough to use it. (Think of whatever is the math equivalent of physical chemistry.) To teach you have to understand it so well as to explain it to a six year old well enough they have at least a vague understanding. That holds with what you say. When you're at the cutting edge, you just got there yourself. And then there's the need to understand people well enough to guess where they are, too, in order to bring them to understanding. It's a special skill set few have.


Not to hijack this little tete-a-tete, but to analogize this to sports: I found in coaching youth baseball that I could explain and show things to the players that would have greatly improved their game. But, I never was able to coach the desire to excel into them. They either had it or they didn't. Talent made a difference, but talent without desire only took them so far. I suspect it is similar in the classroom and that many if not most kids simply don't have the desire to learn; it isn't part of their upbringing at home, and they attach no importance to it. Carry on.


I stink at coaching compared to the better ones my kids have had. Those fellas have the knack for inspiration.

You touched on a big problem with government school. They browbeat the try out of them because precociousness in children makes them work too hard. How to handle them is not taught in college. You must have and develop teaching skills to handle them.

I think modern entertainment like video games are part of it. Kids grow up operating within a strict framework. So they expect to be limited with no reward for trying anything novel. I purposely set my kids up to get bored. Boredom and time with out structure is essential in their development. Government school takes too much time and leaves too little time for personal development. This is a huge difference in our generation and later generations.


Living in a world of G17s and 700s, wishing for P7s and 202s