I'm crimping mid cannelure and the hotter I run it the better the groups but nothing real good even at 19.5 gr which is .5 from max. I never really did like the scope thing on a pistol and I think I will go back to the drawing board using the factory irons. I think I was better off that way. I'm going to try close to max loads with irons at 15 yards and move out from there.