Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Is there Smokeless substitute for Blackpowder

i dont care what you shoot be it traditional or modern . just stop the BS about what type of action is needed..
as to letting the traditionalists cry . i see it the other way as it sure seems to me that modern shooters crying about not having their chosen style rifle aloud , is whats got us in the mess . the whole thought that a modern bolt action design is whats needed to hit at distance is ludicrous . it�s a sales gimmick that�s designed around a want it now society who claims they want more time in the woods yet a lot of the time only takes the time to take their guns out of the cabinet once a year . Who wants to be able to look at some ballistics chart to tell them what to load . Then expects that load to hit a 8 inch target at 300 plus yards . Then be able to put their gun back in the closet without cleaning it , caring or maintaining it .

So yes shoot what you want , who flipping cares.. Just don�t give some lame excuse about why you may or may not want a given design .


Myself , on my best day , I can , off hand , put 5 shots in a chest size target , off hand at 325 yards
Consistently at 200

Smaller target you say . Fine here is one for you
fine
10 x 10 target
Off hand IE, NO REST , non supported ,standing
With patched RB.
Open sights
1 shot .
Two of us hit this mark
Myself and Kim . Mine with a flintlock and Kim shooting a cap lock .
My rifle is a 54 , kims is a 50 . Both have 42 inch barrels
Kim�s hit is on the tag just above the target . Mine is on the target .








Is this exceptional shooting NO . In fact I lose more off hand events then I win .
In the 5 events I regularly shoot in , one had better be able to hit consistently a chest size target , off hand at 250-300 with open sights or your not going to be in the top 2 .

But again is that exceptional ?
By historic , writings , NO . its what rifleman did .
Now I ask you , since we have today better more consistent mixed BP . We have better eye correction for those of us like myself who need glasses .
Why is it that more of us cant achieve remotely the same results ?


Alexander Graydon, Commenting on the Ineffectiveness of British Muskets in Battle, 1776. ..
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"An unusual number of the killed were found to have been shot in the head. Riflemen took off riflemen with such exactness, that they killed each other when they were taking sight, so effectually that their eyes remained after they were dead, one shut and the other open, in the usual manner of marksmen when leveling at their subjects."

General Victor Callot, 1796.
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"Their guns are rifled barrels, and they fight in ambush, five hundred provincials would stop the march of five thousand regulars. And a whole army might be cut off, without knowing where the fire came from."

Gentleman's Magazine, 1775.
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"I have many times asked the American backwoodsman what was the most their best marksmen could do; they have constantly told me that an expert rifleman, provided he can draw good and true sight, can hit the head of a man at 200 yards. I am certain that provided an American rifleman was to get a perfect aim at 300 yards at me standing still, he most undoubtedly would hit me, unless it was a very windy day . . ."

Isaac Weld, Travels Through the States of North America, 1799.
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" Rifle Men that for their number make the most formidable light infantry in the world. The six frontier countries (of Virginia) can produce 6000 of these Men (with) their amazing hardihood, their method of living so long in the woods without carrying provisions with them, the exceeding quickness with which they can march to distant parts, and above all, the dexterity to which they have arrived in the use of the Rifle Gun. Their [sic] is not one of these Men who wish a distance less than 200 yards or a larger object than an Orange -- Every shot is fatal."

George Washington, Letter to the Board of War, 1777.
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"I have formed two companies of grenadiers to each regiment, and with spears of 13 feet long. Their rifle (for they are all riflemen) slung over their shoulders, their appearance is formidable, and the men are conciliated to the weapon. I am likewise furnishing myself with four-ounced rifle-amusettes, which will carry an infernal distance; the two-ounced hit a half-sheet of paper 500 yards distant."

Action Off Hampton Roads. Virginia, 1775, where riflemen fired upon the enemy from the shore.
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" . . . the Riflemen had in one day killed 10 men of a reconnoitering party, and it is said they have killed three officers. A sentry was killed at 250 yards distance."


London Newspaper, 1775.
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"The express, who was sent by the Congress, is returned here from the Eastward, and says he left the Camp last Saturday; that the riflemen picked off ten men in one day, three of whom were Field-officers that were reconnoitering; one of them was killed at the distance of 250 yards, when only half his head was seen."

General Charles Lee, Letter to Colonel William Thompson, 1775.
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"At the distance, perhaps, of one hundred and fifty yards, nothing but his head above water, a shooting-match took place, and believe me, the balls of Morgan, Simpson, Humphreys, and others, played around, and within a few inches of his head . . ."

John Joseph Henry, Campaign Against Quebec, 1812, indicating that these rifle officers also used long arms
Riflemen� "can hit a man if within 250 yards, and his head if within 150."

Virginia Gazette, 1775.
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"A gentleman from the American camp says - 'Last Wednesday, some riflemen, on Charlestown side, shot an officer of note in the ministerial service, supposed to be Major Small, or Bruce, and killed three men on board a ship at Charlestown ferry, at the distance of full half a mile," [800 yards!?! ]

A Minister of the Church of England to the Earl of Dartmouth, 1775.
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"This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worse of whom will put a ball into a man's head at the distance of 150 to 200 yards; therefore, advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs before their departure."

London Chronicle, 1775.
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"A party of these men at a late review on a quick advance, placed their balls in poles of 7 inches diameter, fixed for that purpose, at the distance of 250 yards."