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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Hmm... I'll bet I came to a full stop on the interstate 10 times this evening on my 11 mile commute home from work in 5 o'clock traffic. I wonder if there is a way to disable this BS so it does not burn out the starter or wear the teeth off of the flywheel?
CARS
Ford adds engine shutoff tech to top-selling F-150 pickup
Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY
In a huge boost to a gas-saving technology, Ford said Thursday that it plans to equip all of its F-150 pickup trucks with turbocharged engines with technology that shuts off their engines at stoplights.
The so-called start-stop technology then automatically restarts the engine as soon as the driver presses the gas pedal.
The move is significant because Ford's F-150 is the nation's most popular vehicle — car or truck — and the new technology will be applied to about 60% of its lineup. It will even go on the most brawny version, the Raptor, the new version of which was just unveiled at the Detroit auto show earlier this month.
It marks yet another move by Ford to improve its trucks' gas mileage. The most radical was shifting from steel to aluminum for the truck bodies, a move that saved up to 700 pounds. Plus, Ford is focused on trying to maintain the pickups' sales momentum. While it was easily tops again last year with 780,354 pickups sold, a 3.5% increase, it's feeling some heat from General Motors, maker of the Chevrolet Silverado, Autodata says. GM sold 600,544 Silverados, up 13.4%.
Start-stop will be a feature added to the trucks' EcoBoost turbocharged engines, V-6s that produce enough power to match or exceed the old V-8s with greater gas savings.
“EcoBoost already powers F-150’s best-in-class towing,” said Doug Scott, Ford truck group marketing manager. “Now, with every EcoBoost-equipped F-150 mildly electrified with standard Auto Start-Stop technology, customers’ fuel efficiency is expected to improve as well.”
Start-stop — also called stop-start — has come to many cars across lots of brands as an inexpensive way to try to help meet tightening federal fuel economy standards. The drawback is that sometimes the engine restarts in a jarring way, which can be disconcerting to some drivers.
Ford says it will work on its trucks in most kinds of driving except when towing or in four-wheel-drive mode.
Copyright Gannett 2016
"disconcerting" to drivers huh.... So is the electronic power assist steering when it goes out too... One of fords better ideas I take it... Every automaker is using electronic power steering. Where have you been?
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Ford announced Thursday that start-stop technology will be fitted as standard equipment to every turbocharged F-150 for model-year 2017, including the new SVT Raptor.
It's worth noting that the Blue Oval is not the first truck manufacturer to apply start-stop to its pickups – Ram has sold a 1500 HFE with the tech for years. In fact, it's not even the first time the F-150 has been offered with the fuel-saving system. It's sold on 2.7-liter EcoBoost versions of the MY2016 truck. By selling it as standard equipment on all EcoBoost trucks, Ford will boost the fuel economy of approximately 60 percent of the F-Series it sells.
How much of a boost will be provided is still a question. Ford's official release is free of firm numbers and we're still waiting on the PR team to get back with the information we requested.
"We haven't completed 2017 F-150 fuel economy certification with the EPA, and that is required before we can share final numbers," Ford's Jessica Enoch told Autoblog. "Auto Start-Stop does save fuel in stop-and-go city driving scenarios."
And she's right, start-stop systems are generally good for around a five-percent gain in fuel economy, though that can vary. That being said, the effects of start-stop systems aren't included in EPA estimates, so we wouldn't expect huge changes from the 2016 F-150's figures.
Even with the new system in place, owners that actually use their trucks for work won't be interrupted by engine shutdowns. Switch the truck over to tow mode or into four-wheel-drive (if equipped), and start-stop is automatically turned off, providing uninterrupted engine power.
The next obvious question about the 3.5-liter EcoBoost's new start-stop system focuses on the other vehicles that use the same basic engine. A version of the engine it is offered in the Explorer, Flex, and Taurus SHO, but Ford wouldn't talk about anything but the F-Series. Start-stop has proliferated throughout the brand's turbocharged range, though, so it's not so much a matter of if it will be offered on the large trio, but when.
Check out the official release down below.
JAN 21, 2016 | DEARBORN, MICH.
FORD GAS-SAVING AUTO START-STOP TECHNOLOGY TO BE STANDARD ACROSS ENTIRE 2017 ECOBOOST-EQUIPPED F-150 LINEUP Auto Start-Stop to be standard across 100 percent of EcoBoost®-equipped 2017 Ford F-150 lineup, including all-new F-150 Raptor; technology could represent more than 60 percent of truck's sales F-150 Auto Start-Stop technology is specially tuned for truck customers, shutting off the engine when the vehicle is at a stop – except when towing or in four-wheel-drive mode With best-in-class towing, payload and EPA-estimated gas mileage for 2016, F-150 continues to change the game in capability and fuel efficiency.
DEARBORN, Mich., Jan. 21, 2016 – Ford, America's truck leader, continues to set the pace of innovation among full-size trucks with the expansion of Auto Start-Stop technology across the entire lineup of EcoBoost®-equipped 2017 F-150 pickups.
The 2016 F-150 with 2.7-liter EcoBoost engine comes standard with Auto Start-Stop. That offering continues for 2017, with the addition of the technology as standard equipment for all 3.5-liter EcoBoost engines including the all-new high-output version for F-150 Raptor.
At the rate EcoBoost is growing, fuel-saving Auto Start-Stop could represent more than 60 percent of the truck lineup – giving F-150 the highest number of Ford nameplates offering standard Auto Start-Stop technology.
"EcoBoost already powers F-150's best-in-class towing," said Doug Scott, Ford truck group marketing manager. "Now, with every EcoBoost-equipped F-150 mildly electrified with standard Auto Start-Stop technology, customers' fuel efficiency is expected to improve as well."
Specially tuned for truck customers, Auto Start-Stop shuts off the engine when the vehicle is at a stop – except when towing or in four-wheel-drive mode – to give drivers power on demand when they need it most. When the brake is released, the engine restarts quickly.
Auto Start-Stop for F-150 benefits from Ford's hybrid electric vehicle expertise, helping ensure smooth and refined engine restarts.
Actual fuel savings vary depending on driving patterns. The technology also contributes to a reduction in CO2 emissions due to decreased idle times.
The following Ford vehicles are available with Auto Start-Stop:
Focus 1.0-liter EcoBoost
Fusion 1.5-liter EcoBoost
Edge 2.0-liter twin-scroll EcoBoost
2017 Escape 1.5-liter EcoBoost, 2.0-liter twin-scroll EcoBoost
F-150 2.7-liter EcoBoost; 2017 F-150 2.7-liter EcoBoost, 3.5-liter EcoBoost, high-output 3.5-liter EcoBoost Click Here Vehicles equipped stop-start systems are equipped with more robust starting systems. Where Ford leads, the rest of the automotive industry will follow. I'm sure you'll all be howling about new hybrid F-150 that is due in a couple years, so get ready for that one next.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It sure is nice of the Feds to be taking care of things again isn't it?
How long before the Feds disable the disable buttons?
What happens when your at a light and it doesn't restart?
How many times will it stop and restart while in line at the McDonalds drive through?
What happens to the A/C when the engine shuts off while it is 105F degrees and I'm sitting at a light in downtown Dallas?
Wife had a 2009 Pontiac that came with no spare. Got one.
Wife's new car has no spare and no where to even put one! All in the name of gas mileage.
It may be time to go back to horses.
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Posts: 7,482
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Probably the turbocharger supplier's idea. Imagine how many turbos they're gonna sell on vehicles using that technology. Turbos like nothing better than to be starved for oil after some spirited stop & go driving, water cooled or not.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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How do they keep the oil from draining down and causing premature wear? Light turns green and you jam on the gas, racing away from a stop with an engine that started 0.5 seconds ago. Sounds like a recipe for trouble all the way around. That was my thought, too. Maybe it has a butt-load of constraints on it, such as engine temp, and/or time at engine temp. The stupid AFM on the GM 5.3's has a sizeable list of things that have to occur before it goes into "V4 Mode". And there's an even more sizeable list of conditions that prevent it from going into V4 Mode. Computers sound like a great idea in theory, but I've not had them pan out too well for me in practice. I had 2000, 2002, and 2003 work trucks with "regular" 5.3's - would that I could have those back.  FC
"Every day is a holiday, and every meal is a banquet."
- Mrs. FC
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Regular
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You all need to do more reading before running around waving your hands in the air and yelling about the sky falling.
Several vehicle alterations are necessary to make stop-start viable. You can't get the same effect by keying off your car manually.
First off, the starter motor has to be more robust so it stays reliable despite being used far more often. Likewise, the battery must have deep cycle capability that can endure more frequent draws from the starter. And the engine's crankshaft and rod bearings need to have special low-friction coatings to handle the extra loads placed on them during frequent restarts.
On a more practical note, you don't want the stereo, fan, lighting or wipers to shut down each time the engine winks off, and you don't want them to hiccup when it starts up again. The entire electrical system must be laid out in a different way.
Because the engine will be off, electric pumps are necessary to keep engine coolant circulating and to maintain hydraulic pressure in the transmission. The air-conditioning system may have additional humidity and temperature sensors to monitor the core temperature of the system during the shutdown period. If it looks as if the passengers might get too warm, the computer can abandon the shutdown cycle.
That's right, there's a software brain behind all of this that decides when to stop and when to start again. Nominally, the engine stops when speed reaches zero. But the computer first needs to see steady brake pressure and little or no steering: evidence of a routine stop. The command to start again is given as the brakes are released (or the clutch is depressed) in order to get the engine back on line before the driver has time to transfer his foot to the gas pedal. Click Here Or better yet, why don't you all go drive a new Ford F-150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost V6 and stop-start and see what you think? The fuel economy numbers that have been posted by the 2.7 EcoBoost in the new F-150 have been most impressive, with most people getting 20mpg or more. Click Here
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,724 Likes: 30
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 69,724 Likes: 30 |
More Government regulation and bureaucracy.
CAFE and emissions standards.
We need bigger government with more control, right?
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,267 Likes: 2 |
More nanny BS, you don't have to signal, dim your lights, hit the brakes, look behind you, or learn to park, we'll do it all for you, you're special and unique. 
Trump Won!
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,267 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,267 Likes: 2 |
More Government regulation and bureaucracy.
CAFE and emissions standards.
We need bigger government with more control, right? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^2
Trump Won!
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,009
Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,009 |
You all need to do more reading before running around waving your hands in the air and yelling about the sky falling.
Several vehicle alterations are necessary to make stop-start viable. You can't get the same effect by keying off your car manually.
First off, the starter motor has to be more robust so it stays reliable despite being used far more often. Likewise, the battery must have deep cycle capability that can endure more frequent draws from the starter. And the engine's crankshaft and rod bearings need to have special low-friction coatings to handle the extra loads placed on them during frequent restarts.
On a more practical note, you don't want the stereo, fan, lighting or wipers to shut down each time the engine winks off, and you don't want them to hiccup when it starts up again. The entire electrical system must be laid out in a different way.
Because the engine will be off, electric pumps are necessary to keep engine coolant circulating and to maintain hydraulic pressure in the transmission. The air-conditioning system may have additional humidity and temperature sensors to monitor the core temperature of the system during the shutdown period. If it looks as if the passengers might get too warm, the computer can abandon the shutdown cycle.
That's right, there's a software brain behind all of this that decides when to stop and when to start again. Nominally, the engine stops when speed reaches zero. But the computer first needs to see steady brake pressure and little or no steering: evidence of a routine stop. The command to start again is given as the brakes are released (or the clutch is depressed) in order to get the engine back on line before the driver has time to transfer his foot to the gas pedal. Click Here Or better yet, why don't you all go drive a new Ford F-150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost V6 and stop-start and see what you think? The fuel economy numbers that have been posted by the 2.7 EcoBoost in the new F-150 have been most impressive, with most people getting 20mpg or more. Click Here Gee, not much to go wrong with this simple system huh? Maybe we should all turn in our vehicles and take the bus. Oh wait, there aren't any bus routes within 25 miles of my deer lease. Where's my horse??
"An open message for all Democrats; "Look you are nothing and your work is worthless. Anyone who chooses you is detestable."
Isaiah 41:24 (HCSB)
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 732
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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A friend at work has this in her car. She's taken it back several times, because the car won't restart right away. She was damn near killed last month, when the tractor trailer behind her began to accelerate, expecting her to go after the green.
The dealer can't figure out what's wrong with it. Manufacturer's always rush these ideas to market, then work out the kinks on the consumer. I'll pass.
"Honey, when I die, sell my guns for what they're worth and not what I told you I paid for them."
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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It should come with a spare starter next to the jack....
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Posts: 10,612 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,612 Likes: 1 |
I think if you keep a foot on the brake and one on the gas this feature should have no effect. It's hard to believe that it takes less gas to start the engine then idile while waiting for a light.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,727
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I will believe in the more robust starter when I see it. Most of them, you cannot turn the commutator even once. Does this mean I will have to replace a $200 battery now? In some of that stop and go traffic, I will leave the truck in 1st, and idle along, and still catch up, so have to clutch and stop. WAIT, there ain't no clutch either. It is amazing how many people will pass onthe shoulder so they can sit behind the car in front. I can spot other clutch drivers, many of them do the same thing.
On that turbo thing; my kids pretty fast car has a feature that lets the engine run to cool it after shutting down. Wife's car doesn't, but I figure the turbo ain't working that hard doing grocery store stuff with elderly drivers.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Wonder how much gas it saves? Around Thanksgiving, I was given a Subaru Crosstrek as a dealer's loaner for a few days while my Outback was out of commission. The Crosstrek was a hybrid with the engine shut-off feature. Both car and engine were considerably smaller than my Outback. Driving the same routes, same times of day, same traffic, the smaller, lighter, hybrid with the engine shut-off feature got the SAME MILEAGE, city and highway, according to the on-board computers of both vehicles. Example of one, but I was less than impressed.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,778 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,778 Likes: 9 |
Just another reason to skip the Ford junk. 
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,778 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,778 Likes: 9 |
Fugg, I don't even like the traction control that limits spin by cutting engine power....
Christ who designs these vehicles
Every vehicle I have had and currently have allows this to be disabled via a simple push of a button.
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,521 Likes: 15
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,521 Likes: 15 |
Makes me glad I live in a place without a stoplight.. or a stop sign that people actually stop at..(grin)
Carry on America.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,212 Likes: 3 |
Expect Garrett turbo stocks to SKYROCKET.
I would not buy something that runs on any kind of primer given the possibility of primer shortages and even regulations. In fact, why not buy a flintlock? Really. Rocks aren't going away anytime soon.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
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Wonder how much gas it saves? The bigger question for me is, does it save enough gas to offset: 1. The added expense of equipping the vehicle with the feature. 2. The additional maintenance costs for wear on starters, flywheels, batteries etc.
"There's no schadenfreude like Hillary Clinton schadenfreude."
- Tamara Keel
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