Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire FBI YouTube video of traffic stop of Occupiers from aircraft perspective...

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

Josey,

BINGO! here's a winner.

Now, stop being logical or someone will come along and ask you "how's that working for you".

Geno

PS, the campfire, at least the "Hunter's Campfire" portion of it, thrives on inanities. Please strive to keep it that way, some folks really enjoy it.

Joseywales,



Did you see the video from a chopper like I did or did you see a different one? I saw a guy get out of the car with his hands up. I saw his hands go down when he was killed.

If you kept watching the video you'd see there were two other passengers that exited the white vehicle. So, do you think the officers should have rushed in and rendered aid knowing there's two more in the truck?

Looks like after the other two occupants were taken into custody, the officers then approach the person that was shot. I wouldn't have done it any different . . .

Joseywales,



Looked like a guy walking in deep snow to me.

Senor que vive cerca de la frontera,
(I'm not in the mood to play keyboard games, so you get no accent marks today )

how many pages before we pick a winner?

Is a bull owner more important than a "squatter" on Federal grassland?

Do we start a pool re: eventual pages in this thread?

Where is the anti-sluicer when we need his input?

Geno

Lavoy had already steered toward and onto the berm before jumpy lept from safety into the snowy abyss...

I can't pretend to know what happened there but if the ONLY thing you saw was the guy's hands in the air, I now know why you need a 80x scope to shoot 200 yards.

Possibly. But why did the second suspect have no trouble complying? He exited the vehicle, hands raise. reached down, tossed his gun and live to tell about it. Audio would be nice. The fact is , this guy could have surrender up the road a piece, but drove away. He's already shown his intent NOT to comply.

I think the bottom line is, he put himself in this situation and the LEOs err on the side of caution, to keep themselves safe, I don't have an issue with that. In fact, I'm concerned that the officer in the tree line would walk out in the open, while other armed suspects are in the vehicle. He put himself at risk there, or so it appeared.

that was my thought too. hard to miss the reaching for the left jacket pocket twice...

jmcgrath01sbcglobal.net
To Undisclosed-Recipient@ Jan 28 at 12:55 PM
Please pass this on to your Dentist:


It is with great pleasure that I would like to introduce you to Cerma Dental Tool Nano Technology Ceramic Treatments. It is available in both drops and a spray.

image image I sell either one for $40.

The bottle contains 1.25 oz. which equates to about 1,000 drops, the spray comes in a 4 oz. pump bottle. Please note that our Dental Lube and Air Tool Lube are the same product. The same thing applies to our spray version. It is marketed as a gun spray but metal is metal and it is the same formulation as the drops version... It is just marketing :>}

One question I always get, pertains to FDA approval. The truth is that any and all dental lubricants are not FDA approved... the components that make them may be food grade FDA approved. Kind of like using just the best ingredients to make a cake.

All of that theory goes out the window when you are talking metallurgy. We are impregnating silica carbide (ceramics) into the metal. It is inert and pickles up to 6 microns deep into the metal based on its Nano particle size. It is attracted to the carbon and carbon acids deep inside the metal. Once those molecules bind, they then cure and this is accelerated by heat. As clean as you think your tools are, you will be shocked by how much dirt is pulled out of the metal during the initial Cerma treatment(s).

Under no circumstances does the Cerma air tool metal treatment come into contact with the patient. As with your current lubricant, you lube the tool, blow it out, and then autoclave cure it. You never add additional lubricant after the autoclave sterilization. Loose or fluid lubricant could contaminate the bond between fillings and teeth. I understand these concerns, but with all due respect, they are unfounded when we talk metallurgy instead of lubrication. We “lubricate” through the perfection of metal surfaces. No residual fluid remains.

For those that are creatures of habit, if you would feel more comfortable you could do both techniques together until you build your trust in Cerma. You could first apply the Cerma metal treatment, blow it out and autoclave. Finally, you could then re-apply your old lubricant, blow it out and again autoclave. You will feel you have covered all bases, but the real improvements will be due to the Cerma and the secondary traditional “lubricant” is just a psychological crutch. I asked for a double autoclaving so that your lubricant does not mix with my ceramic chemistry when it is in a liquid state. Once cured it become “bullet proof” and impervious to all chemicals and oils.

I believe within a very short period of time, you will never go back to traditional lubricants again. You will be also treating the tips of drills, dental picks, and what ever you do not want to wear or just to reduce the porosity so that bacteria has no place to hide. Cerma will not affect the brittleness of your metals. It is all good... trust me on this.

Cerma inventor Mr. John Murray spent 15 – 20 years building air tools for the dental industry. He is uniquely qualified. Please call him at 310 617-5757.

James McGrath
203 376-1152

Most people by now have seen the zoomed and enhanxed FBI footage where he undoubtably reaches into his jacket twice prior to absorbing 3 rds.

If one looks at the Oregonian footage on Youtube its all very clear unless one has already made up their mind via subpar footage

it was pretty plain even in the un-edited version.

Maybe it's clear to you. I still see no reason to shoot him. I saw no gun. One can only speculate what he was doing with his hands. Eitherway, I'm not convinced that he was a threat.

Will do thanks.

Also, a question to those who are leaning toward "suicide by cop", or something similar: If he's doing the "suicide by cop" thing, or if he's actually going to be hostile, why the (possible - we can't exactly tell) multiple reaches into or toward a pocket or jacket? If yer gonna do it, then do it. The yes-no-yes-no thing wouldn't make sense.

Well, I wish i could "blow up" the third screen shot of yours as it looks to me like he was already moving away from the center of the his truck as the truck coming towards him is still on a collision course. And perhaps he still thought he could make it over the berm before Mr. F's truck got there. He's getting pretty high on that berm there, maybe to let the truck get between the berm and the blockade?

Neither one of us knows for sure, and I wonder if the officer does either.

What we do know is, Mr. F was a wanted suspected felon. Who had previously fled from a stop. Who was known to be armed. Who was known to have expressed no desire to "be locked in a concrete box". Who was now approaching a roadblock with no indication of coming to a stop. These things are a given.

The fact of an officer jumping away from a vehicle, "apparently" into the path of the oncoming one, really matters not one bit. So what if he did it intending to "make" Mr F come to a stop. Now what, we are to believe that Mr F stopped out of the goodness of his heart instead of the fact that tons of snow (laws of physics) brought his vehicle to a stop?

OK, free country, you see and believe what you wish to. It's your "right". I will not attempt to take that away from you.

Good afternoon to you.

Geno

Play stupid games....win stupid prizes.

Enough said.

Fair enough. Is it possible the officers speculated that he was reaching into his pocket to trigger a device and they shot him before he could do it? Why do people have to see a gun to believe there's a threat? Based on his actions of driving away, then the dance he put on, it doesn't appear he was complying at any time. We've all seen videos of suspects first raising their hands, then pulling a knife, gun, etc.

Many of us are fortunate enough to be able to speculate without dying as a result of being wrong. LEOs don't share that luxury.

But they obviously do have accountability, to you and I.

And the good ones well know it. And some of their brass have apparently figured it out.

That is why this one did NOT turn into Ruby Ridge or Waco. And that is why the FBI almost immediately released video of the shooting.

It is obvious to any reasonable person that the police had no choice but to shoot. The choice was taken from them by the perp.

One man made a decision to die. He is dead! Several others made a decision to live, they are alive and well. As are, thank God, all of the police involved.

Reasonable persons understand that authorities have to end this occupation by armed people threatening violence and instigating armed rebellion. They have to end it before every ultra right wing loonie in the nation shows up ready to initiate another civil war.

The public could not ask for a more perfect place for the arrests to be made. There are probably zero pieces of hiway in the us more perfectly suited for the roadblock. Deep frozen snow, no chance of the perp driving around the road block. He tried!

Remote location, no chance of reenforcements arriving to assist perps. And no risk to innocent bystanders.

People ask, Why did they not make the arrests in a public meeting, or the city street?

Yeah, that would have fueled the Monday morning quarterbacks' discussions when it went south.

Personally, I am very surprised that the feds did not move to arrest every one of the squatters during the first week of occupation.

I applaud all of the police involved for their restraint.