|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 |
OK... If ED glass is literally only the coatings, I can understand that those are rare earth metals being applied...
BUT - what the frick... It costs 600-1k extra to get those coats.. I'm starting to think we are getting screwed somehow...
Pricing seems to be out of line to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
As long as people are willing to pay the price, why would a manufacturer lower it.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
OK... If ED glass is literally only the coatings, I can understand that those are rare earth metals being applied...
BUT - what the frick... It costs 600-1k extra to get those coats.. I'm starting to think we are getting screwed somehow...
Pricing seems to be out of line to me.
ED or Hd ...Hd is fluorite glass
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,088
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,088 |
ED or Hd ...Hd is fluorite glass Other way around. HD can mean whatever the maker wants.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
ED or Hd ...Hd is fluorite glass Other way around. HD can mean whatever the maker wants. Correct
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 278
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 278 |
It's not necessarily the glass itself that increases the cost, as the glass is not really that expensive. Flourite glass is brittle, cracks easily, and is hard to work with. The result is more waste, extra machine time and labor, etc.
There is no standard in the optics industry about what 'HD' means, so it really means nothing.
I hunt, therefore I am.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971
Campfire Ranger
|
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,971 |
ED = Extra low dispersion ... IIRC
Which is generally more about more coatings....
It doesn't mean it's put together by craftsman anymore either, it just means they used multiple coatings in the correct order as to not disperse light.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 166
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 166 |
the truth is you don't have to keep reaching for the latest gimmickry....your 10/15 year old scope is just fine...probably better build quality than the new stuff ..the rest is just advertising hype to separate you from your money...
gunut
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,457
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,457 |
ED = Extra low dispersion ... IIRC
Which is generally more about more coatings....
It doesn't mean it's put together by craftsman anymore either, it just means they used multiple coatings in the correct order as to not disperse light. The first part is correct, ED is extra low dispersion. This refers to the bulk lens materials ability to focus different colors on the same focal plane preventing chromatic aberration. It does not mean coatings. ED lenses are made of expensive grown crystals that are more delicate than most other lens materials, They need to be mounted without mechanical stress so that also cost more. The order of the coatings are to reduce reflection of the incoming light. The coatings are too thin to appreciably shift colors. For the most part, ED glass is a good buy and worth the expense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,511
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,511 |
In the past quality glass often contained lead.
A good example would be the Zeiss 10X56B T*P Night Owls.
They were heavy--I know--I packed a set on several sheep and goat hunts. The view was killer, but their weight was brutal.
Lead has been removed from the manufacturing process due to the hazards involved. The end result is the advent of flourite glass. Lighter, but as was mentioned prior, difficult to handle and manufacture.
"HD" means nothing practically speaking if the glass isn't manufactured with flourite-flourine ions etc., and an intricate coating process.
There is sleeper glass out there like Minox that utilizes flourite and quality coating processes at a lower cost.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,457
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,457 |
In the past quality glass often contained lead.
A good example would be the Zeiss 10X56B T*P Night Owls.
They were heavy--I know--I packed a set on several sheep and goat hunts. The view was killer, but their weight was brutal.
Lead has been removed from the manufacturing process due to the hazards involved. The end result is the advent of flourite glass. Lighter, but as was mentioned prior, difficult to handle and manufacture.
"HD" means nothing practically speaking if the glass isn't manufactured with flourite-flourine ions etc., and an intricate coating process.
There is sleeper glass out there like Minox that utilizes flourite and quality coating processes at a lower cost.
Lead was eliminated due to environmental regulations in the European Union. Lead would make the lens more dense and help reduce chromatic aberration. http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1149536
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,755 |
That's why China can produce quality lenses at reduced cost. They don't have environmental regulations to deal with.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
- Albert Einstein
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
That's why China can produce quality lenses at reduced cost. They don't have environmental regulations to deal with. The Chinese lenses as a general rule range somewhere between kinda [bleep], and complete dog [bleep].
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,845 |
"New and Improved" means whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean; and, generally speaking, means a higher cost to the consumer. Companies do, and should, charge what the market will bare. So as to not sound like some hypocrite, I do want to buy $2,000 scopes for $300.
_________________________________________________________________________
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241 |
That's why China can produce quality lenses at reduced cost. They don't have environmental regulations to deal with. The Chinese lenses as a general rule range somewhere between kinda [bleep], and complete dog [bleep]. You could not be more wrong.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,016
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,016 |
More wrong? Wrong is an absolute...
Democracy is not freedom. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch. Freedom comes from the recognition of certain rights which may not be taken, not even by a 99% vote.
*Marvin Simkin* L.A. Times (1992)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
That's why China can produce quality lenses at reduced cost. They don't have environmental regulations to deal with. The Chinese lenses as a general rule range somewhere between kinda [bleep], and complete dog [bleep]. You could not be more wrong. Name a Chinese Sport optic lense that is as good as a Zeiss HT, Swaro EL, or Leica Ultravid. The only asian glass I've looked through that impressed me was a Kowa Promiar, and they are Japaneese..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,098
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,098 |
WRO- are you saying that ONLY Zeiss HT, Swaro EL and Leica Ultra are good and EVERYTHING else is dogchit? That's what your post says! There is some amazingly good Chinese optics out there. They don't generally have the fit and finish of the better European stuff but they do have some optically good stuff.
As far as HD, ED and Fluorite. Most can mean whatever they want it to mean. True Fluorite crystals were developed for camera lenses and were tough to work with. They were better. Now, almost all "Alpha" glass is just glass but denser, high quality glass. Coatings have improved to help with the glass itself.
Lead did not make your binoculars heavy. Lead was removed as it was hazardous to use in manufacturing and problematic in disposal. I have some very heavy binoculars and they are simply more robust than others. Some would call it overkill.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 315 |
WRO- are you saying that ONLY Zeiss HT, Swaro EL and Leica Ultra are good and EVERYTHING else is dogchit? That's what your post says! There is some amazingly good Chinese optics out there. They don't generally have the fit and finish of the better European stuff but they do have some optically good stuff.
As far as HD, ED and Fluorite. Most can mean whatever they want it to mean. True Fluorite crystals were developed for camera lenses and were tough to work with. They were better. Now, almost all "Alpha" glass is just glass but denser, high quality glass. Coatings have improved to help with the glass itself.
Lead did not make your binoculars heavy. Lead was removed as it was hazardous to use in manufacturing and problematic in disposal. I have some very heavy binoculars and they are simply more robust than others. Some would call it overkill. Pretty much, if it isn't schott from germany, its all the same [bleep], different package.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,241 |
You still couldn't be more wrong.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
|
|
|
|
|
597 members (1beaver_shooter, 160user, 10Glocks, 12344mag, 1936M71, 10gaugemag, 66 invisible),
2,525
guests, and
1,156
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,808
Posts18,477,556
Members73,944
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
