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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
It's about liability and insurance rates. That, plus the undeniable urge people in a position of power have to control others. Whatever, burning man... But he's right...in a way. Possessing any amount of weed, anywhere in the United States, is a crime. Just because some people are careless about what that might bring, doesn't mean employers can afford to be.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,202 |
Alcohol is a "drug" they don't test for which causes more problems than weed.
If it's legal they shouldn't be testing for it anyway There are still those pesky Federal laws making MJ illegal. In addition to that, there are all manner of workplace safety laws (and liabilities) in play. If you had a clue, you'd already know that. If you had a clue you'd know the levels that show up in a test don't mean you're high. I'd rather hire someone who smokes a joint once in a while than a drunk. "Workplace safety" is a BS excuse
One shot, one kill........ It saves a lot of ammo!
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,308 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,308 Likes: 3 |
the "problems" with MJ:
a) it can be detected by testing for a lot longer than alcohol can, greatly blurring the distinction between being under the influence at work and having the equivalent of a drink or two at dinner.
b) it's actually legal to consume MJ in quite a few places now
the distinction between saying "you can't ever drink when off duty" and "you can't ever smoke pot when off duty" is blurry and the testing is too crude to allow you to make the call as an employer.
We're pretty small - two 30-employee companies and we've gone back and forth on this ad nauseum. I don't have an answer because even in Utah filling out a staff that doesn't ever toke is impractical
You can test positive for Pot from second hand smoke.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Trying to find a commercial truck driver who is fit enough to do some work as needed, has a decent driving record, can pass a drug test, and can get into Canada (i.e. no criminal record, not DUI's) is almost impossible.
The guys that meet those qualifications aren't stupid enough to drive a truck.... or you have to pay them well. I'm paying a 25 year old guy about 55K a year to drive a truck about 3/4 time.
I think he may be the last one of his race.... I could have done it, in fact I did it. Port Townsend, WA to Kelowna, BC. Did that run for around five years with a hand full of trips it Calgary. Class A with doubles and triples, hazmat, tanker, and combined over weight over length. Never a DUI, no child support, no felonies and no moving violations in last 30 years.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,890 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,890 Likes: 5 |
I know you did, Scott, but you're not exactly "average", now, are you?
This "war on drugs" thing is costing this country far more than we realize. It really is Prohibition, part Deux.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586 |
The problem with urine tests and hair tests, when it comes to cannabis, is that these don't actually have much, if anything, to do with the question of whether an employee is currently affected by the drug. By the time THC or metabolites show up in urine or hair the intoxicating effect is likely to have long abated. The cannabis metabolites in urine for example don't show up until some time after consumption, but may continue to show up, and give rise to a non-negative result, many days after last use, so what you are testing for is whether the person was, at some time in the past, using or exposed to cannabis (bearing in mind that even sidestream smoke can result in a non-negative).
Now if what you want to assess is whether a person has habits you don't approve of, or which may be detrimental to performance, you'd really need to do a series of tests, comparing results over time.
If on the other hand you want a test as to whether they've very recently smoked cannabis, there's oral swab tests - I'm surprised they haven't been mentioned yet. They aren't perfect, but by their nature they test very recent use, and are therefore likely to be a better proxy for the "currently affected by" question.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,361 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,361 Likes: 9 |
It's about liability and insurance rates. Bingo. That, plus the undeniable urge people in a position of power have to control others. There's a raft of bad info on this thread but there's no point in correcting it. Times will change, but a generation is literally going to have to age it's way out of those positions of power first. I'd probly smoke it but I can't figure out how to get the box open.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,181
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,181 |
As another pointed out, the hair samples go waaaay back in time. 90 days at least is what I hear. I tried it a couple times back in the late 70's. I was never one that could stand intentionally inhaling smoke of any kind. And all I really got out of it was the munchies.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,290 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,290 Likes: 4 |
Trying to find a commercial truck driver who is fit enough to do some work as needed, has a decent driving record, can pass a drug test, and can get into Canada (i.e. no criminal record, not DUI's) is almost impossible.
The guys that meet those qualifications aren't stupid enough to drive a truck.... or you have to pay them well. I'm paying a 25 year old guy about 55K a year to drive a truck about 3/4 time.
I think he may be the last one of his race.... Russian, Mexican, and some dot Indian factions have been working hard to fill the niche.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
"Play Cinnamon Girl you Sonuvabitch!"
Biden didn't win the election.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 975
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 975 |
Boogles my mind how many people need drugs to get by. I know but for the grace of God there go I. But really?!?!?! THAT many people doped up, all the time? Is it any wonder we are headed down the crapper?
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,891
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,891 |
[quote=hatari]It amazes me that the argument for weed is "alcohol is as bad or worse". I've got a news flash for all you bong brothers out there - you can't keep a job if you're drunk either!
If you want to work - don't smoke weed. Of what benefit is it to you other than recreation? If you want to work, don't show up drunk.
Since when did it become too much to ask employees, or perspective employees to be clean and sober? That is not a high bar to aspire to.
Employer check list
- read - write - do basic math -legal resident - clean and sober
That is not a prohibitive list is you are not a worthless dumbass.
Well said
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,181
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,181 |
I know you did, Scott, but you're not exactly "average", now, are you?
This "war on drugs" thing is costing this country far more than we realize. It really is Prohibition, part Deux. I think Scott is pretty average for his generation. I think I have one friend that smokes but it is like a couple beers over the weekend type and I think he has laid off over the last 10 years. He is otherwise straight arrow guy that works in the tech industry servicing and maintaining things like spectrometers at places like Cal Tech and research hospitals and labs. He is not what you would think of as a "stoner" by any stretch of the imagination.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,411 |
Alcohol is a "drug" they don't test for which causes more problems than weed.
If it's legal they shouldn't be testing for it anyway There are still those pesky Federal laws making MJ illegal. In addition to that, there are all manner of workplace safety laws (and liabilities) in play. If you had a clue, you'd already know that. If you had a clue you'd know the levels that show up in a test don't mean you're high. I'd rather hire someone who smokes a joint once in a while than a drunk. "Workplace safety" is a BS excuse Simply fuggin amazing.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,523 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,523 Likes: 3 |
the "problems" with MJ:
a) it can be detected by testing for a lot longer than alcohol can, greatly blurring the distinction between being under the influence at work and having the equivalent of a drink or two at dinner.
b) it's actually legal to consume MJ in quite a few places now
the distinction between saying "you can't ever drink when off duty" and "you can't ever smoke pot when off duty" is blurry and the testing is too crude to allow you to make the call as an employer.
We're pretty small - two 30-employee companies and we've gone back and forth on this ad nauseum. I don't have an answer because even in Utah filling out a staff that doesn't ever toke is impractical
You can test positive for Pot from second hand smoke. You're wrong about that.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,523 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,523 Likes: 3 |
In this state only the dregs of employers will hire someone who fails a drug test.
And increasingly you won't get hired if you've ever had a DUI. DUIs stay on your record forever now.
And if your arms or neck are covered with visible tattoos you won't get hired in a position where customers can see you.
So, if you drive drunk, smoke pot, or have tattoos, congratulations. Your lifetime income just went down. You've given yourself a negative raise.
Personally I think drug tests should be mandatory before getting food stamps, unemployment compensation, or welfare.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,408 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,408 Likes: 2 |
In this state only the dregs of employers will hire someone who fails a drug test.
And increasingly you won't get hired if you've ever had a DUI. DUIs stay on your record forever now.
And if your arms or neck are covered with visible tattoos you won't get hired in a position where customers can see you.
So, if you drive drunk, smoke pot, or have tattoos, congratulations. Your lifetime income just went down. You've given yourself a negative raise.
Personally I think drug tests should be mandatory before getting food stamps, unemployment compensation, or welfare. I concur on all points, thanks for saving me the painful typing. mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,737 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,737 Likes: 1 |
[quote=hatari]It amazes me that the argument for weed is "alcohol is as bad or worse". I've got a news flash for all you bong brothers out there - you can't keep a job if you're drunk either!
If you want to work - don't smoke weed. Of what benefit is it to you other than recreation? If you want to work, don't show up drunk.
Since when did it become too much to ask employees, or perspective employees to be clean and sober? That is not a high bar to aspire to.
Employer check list
- read - write - do basic math -legal resident - clean and sober
That is not a prohibitive list is you are not a worthless dumbass.
Well said
Totally agree. That's the conditions, and agreement I had with an employer of almost 30 years and we got along just fine.
NRA LIFE MEMBER GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS ESPECIALLY THE SNIPERS! "Suppose you were an idiot And suppose you were a member of Congress... But I repeat myself." -Mark Twain
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,848 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,848 Likes: 3 |
Fuggin' classic.
I don't give a schidt what you do on your own time, if you show up drunk or high, you better work your azz off.
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