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A caliber in drag - Ru Paul would be proud. 
Ed
A person who asks a question is a fool for 5 minutes the person who never asks is a fool forever.
The worst slaves are those that put the chains on themselves.
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Campfire Ranger
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Put that RL-26 in a 280 case with a 160 and will will really have something. Not so "Gay" then!!
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 08/25/16.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Campfire Tracker
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R26 is the real deal for the .270 Winchester. It is a unique powder and in cross section looks like an extruded pastry. Same family as R17,33,& 50. Fairly temperature stable or at least predictable with anti copper agents too.
It is showing promise for me in the .243,6.5x57, 270 Win, 270 WSM, 280 AI, 7 RM, and soon the 300 WM.
"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
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Campfire Tracker
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OK, so can anyone explain to me why RL26 in the .270 Win can hit 3050 with 150gr bullets;
7mm WSM can hit 3150 with FOUR different 160gr bullets;
But the 270 WSM barely breaks 3100 with 150gr bullets in 1 out of 3 different loadings?
Pressure. It's all guessing unless you have equipment to measure it. I haven't actually loaded it - just looking at the data online. Just seems strange that both rounds "on either side" so to speak of the 270 WSM do really well with the powder but it doesn't.
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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It has worked really well in my 270 WSM with 150 Partitions.
Same for the 7mm WSM. Very good speeds and seems to be accurate in both rifles.
Semper Fi
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.270 Win loads. I've used a few powders in the .270 Win. RL-22 is excellent. BTW, RL-22 is identical to Norma MRP. I've never used RL-26 You're right in that the .270 Win will do darn near everything a 7MM Rem Mag will do. Within reason, I'll sacrifice velocity for accuracy. A fast bullet that can't hit its target is called a clean miss.
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Wow. that is quite impressive indeed. You've got me whipped by nearly 10% overall velocity.
I'm getting ~2770fps using 57 gr of H4831 and 150 NP's. That pretty well duplicates the Federal factory load.
Admittedly, I didn't feel like I was pushing the needle.... but I didn't think I was leaving THAT much on the table, either.
First teach a child to love God, second teach him to love family, third teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. Cotton Cordell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yes but we all know the pressure(and velocity) varies a lot from rifle to rifle and manual data frequently does not hold up in our garden variety rifles. We see that a lot and it has always been common. I don't have any doubt RL26 is a great powder since it seems to be a temp sensitive rendition of RL25 which I've been using for years now in the 7 Rem Mag,and got some pretty giddy 270 velocities with as well about 10 years ago..... Like 3200 from 22" barrel with 130 gr bullets. Oh....and BTW I have also seen a couple of pre 64 M70 270's with 24" factory barrel give over 3200 fps with 130 gr bullets,with no outward signs of excessive pressures using H414. So, yes, I believe 26 will give those velocities; but when I see cases like the 270 (65 gr ? of capacity) giving about the same velocities as a 7mm WSM ( 74 gr of capacity,....giving about the same velocities as an STW and more than a 7 Rem Mag with 80 + gr of capacity........my antenna goes straight up. Not that I doubt it....just that it leads to more questions in my mind.   Followed to its dryly illogical conclusion,we can start to assume that RL26 erases all substantive difference between a 270 and 7 Rem Mag....which is, of course, ridiculous. Anyone with enough experience with both knows this. I never saw the sense in chasing another 50-100 fps from a smaller case when that same velocity was easily achieved from a commonly available bigger case. Based on what I see here with some of the velocities, it won't be long before the primer popping starts.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Yes but we all know the pressure(and velocity) varies a lot from rifle to rifle and manual data frequently does not hold up in our garden variety rifles. We see that a lot and it has always been common. I don't have any doubt RL26 is a great powder since it seems to be a temp sensitive rendition of RL25 which I've been using for years now in the 7 Rem Mag,and got some pretty giddy 270 velocities with as well about 10 years ago..... Like 3200 from 22" barrel with 130 gr bullets. Oh....and BTW I have also seen a couple of pre 64 M70 270's with 24" factory barrel give over 3200 fps with 130 gr bullets,with no outward signs of excessive pressures using H414. So, yes, I believe 26 will give those velocities; but when I see cases like the 270 (65 gr ? of capacity) giving about the same velocities as a 7mm WSM ( 74 gr of capacity,....giving about the same velocities as an STW and more than a 7 Rem Mag with 80 + gr of capacity........my antenna goes straight up. Not that I doubt it....just that it leads to more questions in my mind. Followed to its dryly illogical conclusion,we can start to assume that RL26 erases all substantive difference between a 270 and 7 Rem Mag....which is, of course, ridiculous. Anyone with enough experience with both knows this. I never saw the sense in chasing another 50-100 fps from a smaller case when that same velocity was easily achieved from a commonly available bigger case. Based on what I see here with some of the velocities, it won't be long before the primer popping starts. Hey Bob, I think it has to do with new powder advances and developments being ideally suited to certain case capacity-to-bore volume/bullet weight ranges. We know that as case capacity goes up for a given bore size, powder burn rate needs to decrease. Same with bullet weight- the heavier the bullet in a given case, the slower the ideal burn rate. RL26 may just be a perfect match for the .270/150gr bullet and the 7WSM/RM and 160+gr bullets. Of course Alliant data for the RM is hamstrung by a lower SAAMI pressure rating. A powder like RL33 may show a similar boost to the performance we've come to expect from the STW, or maybe the perfect powder in that burn rate range is yet to come. I know that a while back guys like rcamuglia were seeing speeds out of the .264WM with RL33 that we've never seen before by using previously available powders. I was genuinely curious about Alliant's pressure-testing system, because if they are measuring pressure in an established and significant way, then we as handloaders can extrapolate that when we use similar components in similar barrel lengths, we'd be operating at similar pressure when we hit the speeds listed in pressure-tested data, which should fall within SAAMI guidelines.
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Yes but we all know the pressure(and velocity) varies a lot from rifle to rifle and manual data frequently does not hold up in our garden variety rifles. We see that a lot and it has always been common. I don't have any doubt RL26 is a great powder since it seems to be a temp sensitive rendition of RL25 which I've been using for years now in the 7 Rem Mag,and got some pretty giddy 270 velocities with as well about 10 years ago..... Like 3200 from 22" barrel with 130 gr bullets. Oh....and BTW I have also seen a couple of pre 64 M70 270's with 24" factory barrel give over 3200 fps with 130 gr bullets,with no outward signs of excessive pressures using H414. So, yes, I believe 26 will give those velocities; but when I see cases like the 270 (65 gr ? of capacity) giving about the same velocities as a 7mm WSM ( 74 gr of capacity,....giving about the same velocities as an STW and more than a 7 Rem Mag with 80 + gr of capacity........my antenna goes straight up. Not that I doubt it....just that it leads to more questions in my mind. Followed to its dryly illogical conclusion,we can start to assume that RL26 erases all substantive difference between a 270 and 7 Rem Mag....which is, of course, ridiculous. Anyone with enough experience with both knows this. I never saw the sense in chasing another 50-100 fps from a smaller case when that same velocity was easily achieved from a commonly available bigger case. Based on what I see here with some of the velocities, it won't be long before the primer popping starts. This all makes sense and I would be nervous other than my custom Mauser .270 gets pretty much identical velocities with the same bullets and charges as Alliants' data, which I assume is pressure tested. Mine gives best accuracy 1.5 grains or so off of Alliants' max, which is still pretty close to 3000 fps with a 150 NPT.
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One other thought: if we are going to take the risk of making extrapolations regarding case capacity and pressure, why not use the 7mm Weatherby to compare? It is pretty much identical case capacity to the 7mm Rem Mag and there is plenty of pressure tested data showing it in the 3100-3200 fps range with 160s, which would make more sense of the data.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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One other thought: if we are going to take the risk of making extrapolations regarding case capacity and pressure, why not use the 7mm Weatherby to compare? It is pretty much identical case capacity to the 7mm Rem Mag and there is plenty of pressure tested data showing it in the 3100-3200 fps range with 160s, which would make more sense of the data. DMD: 7mm Weatherby's have freebore,which is similar to adding powder capacity,and the case tis loaded to higher pressures in both factory ammo and hand loading data. As I recall the cases themselves are a bit lighter and have somewhat more capacity due to head design vs most 7 Rem Mag stuff which is heavier through the head design, and holds a bit less powder. Plus a lot of 7mm Weatherby data is shown with 26" barrels. All these little things add up to show a bit more velocity for the 7mm Weatherby, despite similar case capacities. Just the pressures alone can make a difference. If we long throat a 7 Rem Mag this starts to level the playing field,and IME the 7 Rem Mag comes closer . One I had recently took about the same charges as a 7mm Weatherby with 160 gr bullets and H4831. The silly thing would not shoot well until I approached 7mm Weatherby data.....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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"Based on what I see here with some of the velocities, it won't be long before the primer popping starts"
A fella could always bush the firing pin hole. That will help.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Have any of you tried it in the 7mm RM with 175gr Partitions?
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Might have to try '26 with a 150 grain NBT or 160 NP/NAB in the .280...
“There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot.”
ALDO LEOPOLD
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Always remember we can push 270's and 280's to new limits with new wonder powders but the laws of internal combustion and physics have not been revoked nor altered and the same applies to larger cases,which also benefit from the new powders.
The larger cases will always hold the advantage in terms of velocity. This will never change.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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OP
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True Bob but I think the point is simply one of diminishing returns. My whole point to this thread is not that somehow some physics magic happens that a smaller capacity case is faster than a larger case, 7RM in the title of my post. My point was and still is a 150 NPT at 3050 from a 270 is the ballistic equal of a 7RM with a 150 or 160 at the same velocity. I have no doubt that the various 7 mags will use the new powders and run like bullets a bit faster yet.
Having said that my 270 is running the 150 at 3050 using 61 grains of powder. I'm sure a 7 mag can run the same bullet faster - but with more recoil. I contend that my current rifle/load is, for me, about optimum - tolerable recoil, flat trajectory, and light rifle. I've grown to love the Kimber Montana platform for these reasons.
Another case in point, my Kimber 30-06 is coming around in the accuracy department - 1" groups with NPT at 2850 using Re 16 and H4350. I'm fine tuning the reloads and will pick one in the next few weeks. I can see my M70 300 WSM collecting dust as it only runs a 180 at 2950 - and it weighs 1 lb more than my Kimber 06 A bit of overlap between the 2 but is there any such thing as having too many accurate lightweight hunting rifles? ;-)
Last edited by bwinters; 09/07/16.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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Consider 80% results at 20% effort rather than 100% results at 100% effort.
Stuff gets pretty damn easy.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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B: I understand what you are saying.... I've been loading and killing with a 270 for 45+ years... You just added 50 fps to my "best" 150 NPT load for the 270 from 25 years ago. Not to criticize it; it's nice, but I have seen these sort of things before with MRP, N205, H205, RL25, 7828, etc so all of this is really not new for me. Improvements in velocity are very incremental and after years of watching this sort of thing with new miracle powders and doing it myself, I concluded a long time ago if I want more velocity I buy a bigger case. This is far safer and easier than the pressure "guessing" we all do without a ballistics lab,and trying to get a smaller case to behave like a bigger one. I always thought the 7 Rem Mag recoil was pretty trivial....we are only talking another 4-6 gr of powder after all....... If I want I can move a 150 gr bullet from a 7 RM at almost 3200 fps.Even the Nosler Manual shows almost a 200 fps gain over your 270 load. No matter what we do the 270 gets left behind. Yes I know it still kills.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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