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"It used to be cars were made in Flint, MI and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico. Now you can't drink the water in Flint and the cars are made in Mexico". - Trump

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Originally Posted by Pappy348
The next car I buy will be the best I can afford, regardless of the source. My obligation to my family to spend our resources wisely overrides any other consideration.


A good plan and all we can really do. Buy the best vehicle we like for a myriad of reasons for the best price within our values model. If a manufacture finds that they are not hitting those marks they will change or go out of business.


If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
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Originally Posted by TBREW401
Companies move out of the US to avoid the EPA, Unions, taxes, and business regulations.


Partly true, but even if you do away with unions you're not going to get US workers for the $3 an hour they pay in Mexico. Make no mistake about it, it's the cheap labor they're after & those defending Ford would likely sing a different tune if THEIR job was being outsourced to the third world at $3 an hour.

Yeah, it's a global economy & we're seeing the results of it. We've gutted our manufacturing because we cheer companies like Ford sending jobs offshore in the name of corporate profits then we wonder why someone like Obama wins elections by promising welfare & food stamps for everyone. It's a great economic plan, offshore jobs, get the out of work people on welfare so they'll vote democrat, then tax the hell out of anyone left with a job to pay for it. The democrats are laughing all the way to the White House while the republicans are patting themselves on the back because their 401k went up a bit.

If you put your middle class in direct competition for jobs with Mexico & China then don't let it surprise you when they end up living like Mexicans & Chinese. There's no free lunch.

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Originally Posted by Pugs
Originally Posted by Pappy348
The next car I buy will be the best I can afford, regardless of the source. My obligation to my family to spend our resources wisely overrides any other consideration.


A good plan and all we can really do. Buy the best vehicle we like for a myriad of reasons for the best price within our values model. If a manufacture finds that they are not hitting those marks they will change or go out of business.


Goes for guns too, BTW.


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Yesterday CNN ran a headline that pretty much said the sky is falling because all Ford small car production is moving to Mexico.

Today when Trump echoed CNN's headline story CNN accuses Trump of lying - even when he is using CNN's own reporting.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/15/news/companies/ford-trump-jobs/index.html

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My Toyota was made in the USA by Mexicans being supervised by Japanese.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by KentuckyMountainMan
I have a cousin that works in the body shop at Toyota's Georgetown Ky plant....According to Him Toyota uses the cheapest Chinese steel they can get to build there Cars....Pure Junk...He drives a New Chevy.. eek


You bet,

I just brought our 2003 Matrix over here from my wife's place. It's such a piece of junk. Can you believe it, we actually had to replace the clutch with only 198000 miles on it.

Oh, My '01 Tacoma only has 230000 on the odometer, I just replaced the shocks and inner tie rod ends. I get the oil analyzed every year after about 4 oil changes. It keeps coming back as "normal". Junk, I'm thinking it should come back excellent or something, normal's not good is it?

Our 86 Toyota Pick up ONLY got 250000 miles on it before I decided to rebuild the motor because the head gasket was finally going. Sure was a POS truck, that one was. I even had to change the springs and shocks at almost 300K miles. I sold it at close to 325K and it was still running a year later as I saw it in town. What a crappy truck.

Dam n, those Toyotas suck so much we just went out and bought a brand new RAV4 for my wife. I hope that one gets way more than 200000 miles before we have issues with it. I'm tired of not getting my money's worth. wink

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Toyota make fine automobiles, they don't make a truck yet! A Tacoma is just an alleged truck.

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Originally Posted by Heym06
Originally Posted by Valsdad
Originally Posted by KentuckyMountainMan
I have a cousin that works in the body shop at Toyota's Georgetown Ky plant....According to Him Toyota uses the cheapest Chinese steel they can get to build there Cars....Pure Junk...He drives a New Chevy.. eek


You bet,

I just brought our 2003 Matrix over here from my wife's place. It's such a piece of junk. Can you believe it, we actually had to replace the clutch with only 198000 miles on it.

Oh, My '01 Tacoma only has 230000 on the odometer, I just replaced the shocks and inner tie rod ends. I get the oil analyzed every year after about 4 oil changes. It keeps coming back as "normal". Junk, I'm thinking it should come back excellent or something, normal's not good is it?

Our 86 Toyota Pick up ONLY got 250000 miles on it before I decided to rebuild the motor because the head gasket was finally going. Sure was a POS truck, that one was. I even had to change the springs and shocks at almost 300K miles. I sold it at close to 325K and it was still running a year later as I saw it in town. What a crappy truck.

Dam n, those Toyotas suck so much we just went out and bought a brand new RAV4 for my wife. I hope that one gets way more than 200000 miles before we have issues with it. I'm tired of not getting my money's worth. wink

Geno
Toyota make fine automobiles, they don't make a truck yet! A Tacoma is just an alleged truck.



And a Tundra is.........


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Originally Posted by walt501
Did the article say anyone would be losing their job in the U.S.? No, it didn't. That's because this move will pave the way for production of the new Ford Bronco and Ford Ranger in the U.S.


......until such time as those models can be sent south of the border also!!


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by walt501
Did the article say anyone would be losing their job in the U.S.? No, it didn't. That's because this move will pave the way for production of the new Ford Bronco and Ford Ranger in the U.S.


I was told that the cars moving to mexico are small margin . They will keep the current UAW workers and use them to build Trucks and SUV's with a larger profit margin. That is why the UAW is not complaining.

If true, that's a good thing, but they missed a golden opportunity to earn good press by not building a plant in a right-to-work state and keeping the jobs here. Again, the burdens our government puts on business here are a major motivator for going offshore. Lots of corporations, not just manufacturers, are reloacating to places like Canada and Ireland to escape onerous taxes.


What fresh Hell is this?
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Originally Posted by deflave
My Toyota was made in the USA by Mexicans being supervised by Japanese.



Travis



I know some of the Toyota workers in Georgetown KY. They ain't Mexican, don't speak Mexican, and are good people You are right about the supervisors, though.

My wife's Camry is one helluva car, regardless.


You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho
No tar and feathers here. But not only is there a world of cheap labor out there, here come the robots.

Folks might not all agree with Fred's conclusions but he brings up some good topics to ponder. A bit of a read here but not too long. For the internet attention spans, his points are:
- Manufacturers love robots, they're cheaper in the long run and more reliable than humans.
- Ergo, more and more robots replace more and more human workers.
- Ergo, more goods are produced more cheaply.
- However, more humans are out of work.
- Without working humans, who buys the stuff robots make?

http://fredoneverything.org/ready-new-rossiters-universal-robots-toward-a-most-minimal-wage/



"Being as I am a curmudgeon, and delight in human folly and thoughts of huge asteroids, tsunamis, incurable plagues, continent-shattering volcanoes, and the Hillary administration, I follow the advance of robots with hope. They may finally end civilization as we know it. Currently they spread like kudzu. Herewith a few notes from my favorite technical publication, the Drudge Report. It may convince you that the robots are upon us like ants on a sandwich.

Navy building autonomous sub-hunting submarine. Robots deliver food to your door. China’s use of robots set to surge. Amazon uses 30,000 robots in warehouses. AMBER lab robot jogs like human. Japanese farming robots. Burger-flipping robot. World’s first sex-robot. China’s robot cop. China’s road to self-driving cars. Bloomberg uses robot story-writers. In theme park, robots make food and drinks. SCHAFT unveils new robot in Japan. Boston Dynamics has several ominous robots paid for by the Pentagon. Robot does soft-tissue surgery better than humans. Robotic KFC outlet in Shanghai. And of course everybody and his dog are working on self-driving vehicles.

People seldom click on links. This one, Atlas, from Boston Dynamics, is truly worth a click. Think of him coming through your door by night. Many similar critters exist, often in Asia.

These machines either work well or come very close, and impinge on manufacturing, delivery, war, policing, the restaurant industry, journalism, and service industries perhaps soon to include prostitution. We ought to think forethoughtedly about what to do with these machines. We won’t.

Amazon Robot

Photo: Amazon’s robots. Video. These orange devils carry heavy racks to humans who pick ordered goods from them for shipment. Amazon is working on robots that can do the picking. Who will be left? In principle, 30,000 robots can work 90,000 shifts, plus weekends. With a predictability that makes sunrise look like a long shot, the company says that the robots do not replace but “help” humans. If you believe this, I’d like to sell you stock in my venture to make radioactive dog-food on Mars.

Automation of course means more than robots. As newspaper after newspaper goes all-digital, less pulpwood will be needed to make less newsprint, pressmen will be fired, delivery trucks will no longer needed, and so on. Such ripple effects get little attention. They should.

The capitalist paradigm in which companies think only about themselves, seeking to increase productivity and reduce costs, is going to work decreasingly well. Replacing well-paid workers with robots means replacing customers with a lot of money with customers with little money. People who are not paid much do not buy much. Robots buy even less.

The first crucial question of coming decades: Who is going to buy the stuff pouring from robotic factories?

The current notion is that when a yoyo factory automates and lays off most of its workers, they will find other well-paid jobs and continue to buy yoyos. But as well-paid jobs everywhere go automated, where will the money come from to buy yoyos? Today participation in the work force is at all- time lows and we have a large and growing number of young who, unable to find good jobs, live with their parents. They are not buying houses or renting apartments. (They may, given the intellectual level of today’s young, be buying yoyos.)

Enthusiasts of the free market say that I do not understand economics, that there will always be work for people who want to work. But there isn’t. There won’t be. There is less all the time. Again, look at the falling participation in the work force, the growing numbers in part-time badly paid jobs. Short of governmentally imposed minimums, wages are determined by the market, meaning that if a robot works for a dollar an hour, a human will have to work for ninety-five cents an hour to compete , or find a job a robot can’t do–and these get scarcer.

From a businessman’s point of view, robots are superb employees. They don’t strike, demand raises, call in sick, get disgruntled and do a sloppy job, or require benefits. Building factories that are robotic from the gitgo means not having to lay workers off, which is politically easier than firing existing workers. Using robots obviates the Chinese advantage in wages, especially if America can make better robots–good for companies, but not for workers in either country. That is, production may return to the US, but jobs will not. In countries with declining populations, having robots do the work may reduce the attractiveness of importing uncivilizable bomb-chucking morons from the bush world.

A second crucial question: What will we do with people who have nothing to do? This has been a hidden problem for a long time, solved to date by child-labor laws, compulsory attendance in high school, the growth of universities as holding tanks, welfare populations, and vast bureaucracies of people who pretend to be employed. Few of these do anything productive, but are supported and kept off the job market by the rest of us. But there are limits to the capacity of Starbuck’s to soak up college graduates. (The economic fate of America may depend on our consumption of overpriced coffee.)

As time goes on and fewer and fewer people can find work, and particularly the less intelligent, something will have to give. We won’t see it coming. We never see anything coming. Businessmen will observe productivity going up and labor costs going down. What could be wrong with that? Businessmen do not concern themselves with social questions. Methinks, however, that social questions are about to concern themselves with businessmen.

As standards of living decrease, unrest will come. I will guess that much of Donald Trump’s popularity arises from the sending of factories to China by the corporations that rule America. Now the robots are going to take the remaining jobs. Economists will chatter of this principle and that curve and what Aristotle said about Veblen, but in a free market for labor, robots will win. If we have a high minimum wage, business will automate. If we have a low minimum wage, they will automate, but a few years later.

The obvious solution, one I think inevitable within a few decades unless we want a revolution, is a guaranteed minimum income, enough to live on comfortably, for everyone. Whether this is a good idea can be debated, but it seems likely to be the only idea. Capitalists will tell me that I do not understand markets, or capital flows or pricing mechanisms, and that I am against freedom. I will respond that they need to wake up and look around. And I will point out that economics has become a tedious form of Left-Right metaphysics, Keynes versus the Austrian School, capitalism versus socialism, all unconnected to onrushing reality.

What would be the effects of a guaranteed income? Godawful, I would guess. Some people, probably including those who read columns on the web, would read, listen to music, drink wine and talk with friends, hike in the Himalayas, scuba dive, and earn doctorates in physics. But most would get up every morning, bored, without purpose, anticipating just another of unending days of television, beer, tedium, no driving desire to do anything but discontent with nothing to do. Would the young even go to school? They would have no need. What has happened among the welfare populations that in effect have a guaranteed minimum income?

See? We are doomed. It warms the cockles of a curmudgeon’s heart. Whatever a cockle is."


a cockle is the plural of cackle, see hilldawgs legs.
I was just talking a gun related, stock market, thingie this morning with a friend, retired G.M. engineer, back in the detroit area. You would like him. I told him of this article. His comment was who pays the majority of taxes in this country? corporate, that's who. and most big business has relocated offshore to avoid this. You can blame gooberment with taxes, regulations, epa and the rest of it for companies moving. You just can't compete unless that is done.


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Let the corporations that make cell phones man up with M1-Garands next time... But they be too busy playing Pokemon or whatever that is


Those guys don't make anything; they design the stuff here and have it made in Asian sweatshops, just like sneakers and treestands.


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Originally Posted by KentuckyMountainMan
I have a cousin that works in the body shop at Toyota's Georgetown Ky plant....According to Him Toyota uses the cheapest Chinese steel they can get to build there Cars....Pure Junk...He drives a New Chevy.. eek


That's odd. My 2007 Tundra has no rust. My FIL'S 2009 F150 has a rusted out cab corner and I see plenty of Chevy and Dodge trucks from the mid to late 2000's with bubbling fender wells and hoods.


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Originally Posted by bruinruin
[quote=KentuckyMountainMan]I have a cousin that works in the body shop at Toyota's Georgetown Ky plant....According to Him Toyota uses the cheapest Chinese steel they can get to build there Cars....Pure Junk...He drives a New Chevy.. eek


That's odd. My 2007 Tundra has no rust. My FIL'S 2009 F150 has a rusted out cab corner and I see plenty of Chevy and Dodge trucks from the mid to late 2000's with bubbling fender wells and hoods. [/quote. Didn't Toyota recall a binch of trucks because of frames rusting out. ]

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Didn't Toyota recall there tundra for frame rusting out

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Didn't Toyota recall there tundra for frame rusting out

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What nobody seems to be talking about is the millions being made by the top guys at Ford but yet $34 is too much to pay the hands on blue collar workers. Blue collar worker's living in a 200k house with a truck they helped build seems to be too luxurious. But the 6 million dollar home with millions in the bank is not enough for the ceo to survive on

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Originally Posted by Pahunter69
Didn't Toyota recall there tundra for frame rusting out


ASKING for somebody else to back your inuendo ?

Hey,... you're bringing it up, so it's your baby,....post some links to that problem,...

First I've EVER heard of this,. so all ears and eyes here, Bud.

GTC


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Screw Ford screw Mexico, that's all I have to say about that.


Eating fried chicken and watermelon since 1972.

You tell me how I ought to be, yet you don't even know your own sexuality,, the philosopher,,, you know so much about nothing at all. Chuck Schuldiner
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